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Old May 28th, 2010, 08:58 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Denatured Alcohol Substitute

Im having a really tough time finding denatured alcohol up here in Canada.
I want to use it to wipe down the epoxy soaked spalted maple top im working on when sanding and before i put my finish spray on it.
Are there any substitutes that i can use that have the same characteristics and wont screw up the finish coat?
Im using TArget Coatings, em6000, water based acrylic lacquer.
Thanks

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Old May 28th, 2010, 09:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You could try 'lighter fluid'. apparently that's what Naptha is...

I'm located in Burlington - where do you get your body wood from? Know anyone that could/would build me a custom neck?
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Old May 28th, 2010, 09:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Give Everclear a try. The 190 proof stuff is pure alcohol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_%28alcohol%29

The upside ...... you can drink the leftovers ....
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Old May 28th, 2010, 09:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Can you get methylated spirits in Canada? It's pretty much the same thing as denatured alcohol.

I would also try naphtha though. It's excellent for cleaning and removing any wax or oils.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 09:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Mineral spirits will also clean that top right up for you. You just have to wait for it to dry before applying your finish.

A lot of people use Everclear to dissolve fresh cut shallc flakes.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 12:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hi Neighbour

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/eljw61/

I got both on E-Bay. There are lots of people there who will make one for you.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 12:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks for the help.
ill look into the product(S) that you mentioned
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Old May 28th, 2010, 02:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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here is a link to the saq website and alcool@94%,

Haven't tried it myself yet, but it sounds like the best option I've found, that I can actually get at... methalhydrate sounds scary....
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Old May 28th, 2010, 02:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Denatured means the water is removed, often means there is then benzene in it, nasty stuff. Industrial methylated spirits (IMS), mostly ethanol.

Methylated spirits is a denatured alcohol, usually has methylene-blue dye added to make it undrinkable (urgh!). Excise duty may be payable.

Iso-propyl alcohol (propan-2-ol) is an alcohol that evaporates without leaving a residue, used as lens cleaner and in electronics for cleaning. Readily available in 0.5litre cans.

There are usually restrictions on sending flammable liquid solvents through the post. A dim view is taken.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 03:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ernie61 View Post
I want to use it to wipe down the epoxy soaked spalted maple top im working on when sanding and before i put my finish spray on it.
Are there any substitutes that i can use that have the same characteristics and wont screw up the finish coat?
Im using TArget Coatings, em6000, water based acrylic lacquer.
Thanks
I agree with the suggestion to use naptha. Also, I prefer naptha
for this kind of thing over mineral spirits because naptha evaporates
more quickly. And naptha won't bother shellac, either.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 09:50 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jefrs View Post
Denatured means the water is removed, often means there is then benzene in it, nasty stuff. Industrial methylated spirits (IMS), mostly ethanol.

Methylated spirits is a denatured alcohol, usually has methylene-blue dye added to make it undrinkable (urgh!). Excise duty may be payable.

Iso-propyl alcohol (propan-2-ol) is an alcohol that evaporates without leaving a residue, used as lens cleaner and in electronics for cleaning. Readily available in 0.5litre cans.

There are usually restrictions on sending flammable liquid solvents through the post. A dim view is taken.
Not exactly.

Denatured means that the ethanol has been contaminated with substances that are not safe to drink, and also cannot be easily removed (this is done to avoid the high taxes placed upon drinkable spirits.) It has nothing to do with water content.

Methylated spirits is a mixture of ethanol (the drinkable alcohol) and methanol (the stuff that causes blindness and/or death) - it is a form of denaturing for alcohol intended to be used as stove fuel - the methanol burns very clean and safe, unlike certain other denaturants.

Ethanol is hygroscopic - meaning that it naturally absorbs water, even from the air. So with typical distillation processes it is not possible to get 100% ethanol, only about 95% (190 proof - same as Everclear.) For 100% ethanol that you need to use chemical drying agents (e.g. Calcium oxide) to draw off the remaining water.

You can buy 100% ethanol but it is very expensive and rapidly reverts to 95% concentration upon opening the container. It is used in laboratories for re-crystallizing certain compounds, and also in eye surgery.

And methylene blue is safe to consume (in reasonable quantities) although it will turn the whites of your eyes blue, and your urine green (it was used in the Pacific during WWII as an anti-malarial.)
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Old May 29th, 2010, 12:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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To the chemist, denatured means altered in form. This may well render it unpalatable but it is not the actual meaning of the term (don't believe everything in Wikipedia). With alcohol that means getting rid of the water from the liquor. The cheap crash distillation processes produce a range of alcohols from e.g. fermented waste vegetable matter. Whilst this is mostly ethanol, you also get methanol, propanol, butanol, etc, - the methanol is not added. You don't want the public drinking this muck so you stick dye in it: methylene blue, which I would not advise you to ingest even if you have malaria. "Harmful" http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/ME/methylene_blue.html. We also slap excise license controls on it. IMS (or IDA) may be clear, not dyed - purple French polish is not attractive. Depending on strength may have other stuff in it e.g. wood naphtha. This is available to our public in small quantities, I bought 10 litres.

This is not the same as laboratory ethanol: Ethanol B.P 96% is safe for human contact, beverages etc; Ethanol A.R. various grades e.g. 99.99% may well contain trace benzene (carcinogenic) which may be used to extract the last of the water. This stuff is not readily available to the public. http://www.ethanol.co.uk/products6.html
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Old May 30th, 2010, 02:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Well, I wouldn't worry so much about any methylene blue, so much as the fact that it is used to signal the presence of methanol.

Don't forget that ethanol, and even sodium chloride have their own MSDS.

Typical oral doses of methylene blue (as a urinary antiseptic) are 50-100 mg three times daily. Not much used in the developed world, but still an option in places where pennies matter.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 01:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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you can get denatured alcohol at home depot or rona stores in canada it is in with the shelacs and is used as a shelac thinner. or if you are ever in toronto, contact robert pope, they are a graphic printing supplier. denatured ethyl alcohol is also used for developing polymer printing plates and they carry it for that purpose.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 01:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
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would'nt just plain old isopropyl alcohol aka rubbing alcohol do the same thing? if you are just using it to wipe down epoxy i dont think it will have any effect on the surface and i think it evaporates quickly and clean leaving no residue. and best of all you can get it at any pharmacy and i have even seen it in a few dollar stores.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 03:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks everyone for your input.info.
Ill check out Home depot and Rona first...i guess i should have done that in the first place.
Thanks again!!
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Old May 31st, 2010, 04:41 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlabstudio View Post
would'nt just plain old isopropyl alcohol aka rubbing alcohol do the same thing? if you are just using it to wipe down epoxy i dont think it will have any effect on the surface and i think it evaporates quickly and clean leaving no residue. and best of all you can get it at any pharmacy and i have even seen it in a few dollar stores.
I use to do that, but it leaves a residue.
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Old June 1st, 2010, 10:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Yeah the only problem with isopropyl is that most of what is sold in retail stores is either 50% or 70%, meaning a lot of water. I'd hate to see a bunch of water soaking into the spalt, because it would take forever to dry.

Home Depot most definitely has denatured alcohol, it should be right with all the other solvents.
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 04:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Ok for what it's worth, I always expect a can of 'denatured' alcohol to be ethanol with a poison added so you don't have to pay a liquor tax and the guy in the paint store doesn't have to be as careful about who they sell it to. I never expected "denatured" to connote that it had all the water removed. "Anhydrous" is the term used for a chemical being sold as "dry" as possible, and true enough as soon as you open the can it's going to start absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. I learned that in organic chemistry lab, not from Wikipedia. SO if you like to mix your own shellac it's best to get a fresh can now and then because the gradual increase in water content will make the shellac get cloudy. Ok so much for semantics.

For Target EM6000 do NOT use naptha or mineral spirits because it can soften the un-cured water based lacquer. The Target Coatings Forum has some information from the president/chemist warning about this. All you need is a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water to remove residue, clean the piece of sanding dust, or draw out oils from woods like fir. Wet sanding isn't a good idea until the piece is fully cured anyway. If you can't find denatured alcohol in a can in the paint section at Home Depot or Lowes or the paint store or hardware store, one alternative (although pricey) is Everclear Grain Alcohol - sold in liquor/package stores without the poison so you can drink it or make limoncella with it or wipe your workpiece with it. Heck you could even use vodka if you can find it cheap enough. 100 proof would be fifty per cent water.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 06:08 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Article about denatured alcohol

http://knowledge-hub.info/denatured-...re-to-buy.html
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