Lacquer...nitro vs. waterbase

[txspreacher]

I tried search and couldn't find what I was wondering. So I have a couple of questions....

1. Do successive coats of water-based burn in like with nitro?
2. Is the "30 days in the hole" still a requirement or is the gas off time shorter?

Thanks in advance.

[txspreacher]

*chirp-chirp-chirp*

[SnorkelMonkey]

This sparks my interest as well.

[LuvN Guitars]

Originally Posted by txspreacher

I tried search and couldn't find what I was wondering. So I have a couple of questions....

1. Do successive coats of water-based burn in like with nitro?
2. Is the "30 days in the hole" still a requirement or is the gas off time shorter?

Thanks in advance.

This info is from Michael Dresdner's book "The New Wood Finishing Book", he's a furniture finisher but the info in it applies to guitars in most cases, there's even some pictures of staining a maple top Tele body to "pop" the grain. There's a wealth of information on finish types and how to achieve finish effects in the book.

Waterborne coatings- Cure time for satin rub- 7 days, for gloss rub- 1 month.
Waterborne finishes do not melt in.

[txspreacher]

Thanks, LuvN Guitars.

[930vet]

Originally Posted by LuvN Guitars

This info is from Michael Dresdner's book "The New Wood Finishing Book", he's a furniture finisher but the info in it applies to guitars in most cases, there's even some pictures of staining a maple top Tele body to "pop" the grain. There's a wealth of information on finish types and how to achieve finish effects in the book.

Waterborne coatings- Cure time for satin rub- 7 days, for gloss rub- 1 month.
Waterborne finishes do not melt in.

This is fundamentally inaccurate. WB lacquer does melt in. In fact, Target Coatings' (supplier to StewMac) lacquer is claimed to have indefinite melt in. You can definitely get a gloss rub after about a week, but it might work better after a month. I didn't wait that long, though.

I have seen witness lines in WB Minwax wipe-on poly when I went too long between layers- that stuff needs to have each coat within a couple of hours or less of the previous- basically as fast as the last coat has dried, do the next. I have never seen witness lines on the two bodies that I have done with TC lacquer, regardless of how long I waited between coats. Just be sure that you have a consistent finish before you go to the clear coat, meaning no shiny patches.

[txspreacher]

Originally Posted by 930vet

This is fundamentally inaccurate. WB lacquer does melt in. In fact, Target Coatings' (supplier to StewMac) lacquer is claimed to have indefinite melt in. You can definitely get a gloss rub after about a week, but it might work better after a month. I didn't wait that long, though.

I have seen witness lines in WB Minwax wipe-on poly when I went too long between layers- that stuff needs to have each coat within a couple of hours or less of the previous- basically as fast as the last coat has dried, do the next. I have never seen witness lines on the two bodies that I have done with TC lacquer, regardless of how long I waited between coats. Just be sure that you have a consistent finish before you go to the clear coat, meaning no shiny patches.

So it sounds like in your personal experience WB is pretty forgiving to work with. My current project is already moving along in nitro, but my next one may just have to be WB. Thanks to all for the input.

[SnorkelMonkey]

Great info thanks!

[Macpaulster]

Originally Posted by txspreacher

My current project is already moving along in nitro, but my next one may just have to be WB.

For musical instruments, stick with nitro lacquer. WB options are fine for furniture, but even there, they don't measure up to the beauty of nitro lacquer. For your beloved Tele project, there is only one option!

[old_picker]

Originally Posted by Macpaulster

For musical instruments, stick with nitro lacquer. WB options are fine for furniture, but even there, they don't measure up to the beauty of nitro lacquer. For your beloved Tele project, there is only one option!

i disagree with this - i found WB lacquer very friendly to use, extremely low toxicity, not flamable and clean up in water - no stinky inflamable toxic fumes

i have built some killer guitars finished wb lacquer - produces an excellent high gloss finish as good as any i have seen done in nitro, two pack, poly or whatever

if you feel you want to try it go right ahead - nitro is NOT the only option for your beloved tele

[Macpaulster]

Originally Posted by old_picker

i disagree with this - i found WB lacquer very friendly to use, extremely low toxicity, not flamable and clean up in water - no stinky inflamable toxic fumes

Ray, you make a valid point. I agree with you that if the above things you mention are of paramount importance then WB is an option.

However, if you want the most beautiful, and best sounding guitar finish, then you've got to deal with the not so friendly, higher toxicity, flameable, clean up issues, and toxic fumes of Nitro Lacquer! But there is simply nothing as beautiful as a hand rubbed lacquer finish. WB is not even close. I'm not saying WB can't look good, but in a side by side comparison, well, there just isn't any.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by Macpaulster

For musical instruments, stick with nitro lacquer. WB options are fine for furniture, but even there, they don't measure up to the beauty of nitro lacquer. For your beloved Tele project, there is only one option!

This is also innaccurate. Some of the high end strat and tele builders like Suhr use WB lacquer with just as great a luster as Nitro. Furniture guys tend to use nitro/acrylic catalyzed formulas for their use. They have quick drying times and high solid base so they only have to spray a few coats. These mixes do not shine up anywhere near Nitro based lacquers, but they hold up to drink rings and bathroom moisture. Expensive automotive acrlyic lacquers will buff out crystal clear, and have a shine superior to Nitro.