Is Squier becoming the Standard Of Excelence Within Fender ?

[musicmatty]

There's no question, that Squier guitars over the last couple of years has ramped up a quality product that has rivaled the guitars that are made here in the USA and Mexico..certainly in terms of Craftsmanship and consistencies of their guitars.

Although I don't own a CV or CVC, I've played both and having inspected them to a degree..they are a fine peice of craftsmanship with stellar necks and most importantly, excellent fret work. The notion that " you get what you pay for" really doesn't apply hear. If the guitar was made here in the USA and sold for $299. - $370., we all know that we would not be getting much of a product for that dollar amount. However, the dollar exchange in China is like..$7. to 1...so really all things considered, if this same guitar was produced here, it would be near the $1000. mark for sure. I really believe that these Squires are getting more attention to detail then whats being produced here closer to home. One reason for this could be that the Chinese are trying hard to become a major player in the World of exports with a 2nd to none in terms of Quality and Craftsmanship so they can be acknoweldged as a serious competitor.

I just purchase the new Squier JazzMaster which I wasn't even considering for a purchase but I grabbed it off the wall to try out the new Fender Mustang IV Twin amp I was considering for a purchase. This guitar is possibly the best Fender product I've had in my hands in years. The 3 peice Alder body and 1 peice Maple neck were flawless in their craftsmanship. The nut was cut precise for tuning at the lower frets..this is not common The neck relief was almost at zero with string height measured @ the 17 fret being 4/64ths accross the fretboard without a Capo. There was no rattaling or string buzz with the 10-46 strings that came standard with it. The AlNiCo V Duncan pups look like soap bar P-90s but are not..they are Flat wound single coils that are very Tele like but without the spank and snarl but with all the sparkle..if that makes sense This guitar was onsale for only $250. bucs..so I had to get it. Something is really starting to unravel here and would appear that Squeir is going to be the Barn Burner here that no one ever suspected would happen. Is anyone else noticing this

[ADK Teleman]

I have a 2009 Squier Affinity Strat that I will never part with! Plays like butter and sounds fantastic!

[pchilson]

I don't disagree.
The CV line, while not right for some people, has set a mark that is hard to beat.
All through the Squier line they have a consistent quality that belies the selling price. You must remember these guitars are built under contract for Fender and must adhere to a specification and quality guideline.

Some of the parts selection based on meeting these prices are an obvious drawback. That said you still get a tremendous bargain which allows you to selectively upgrade as you see fit.

I like the model and I like the guitars.

[skrewflanders]

I completely disagree, respecfully of course.
I've played and owned more than my share of squires (affinity and standard, strats and pbasses mostly) over the years, and while they have definately improved in quality over the years and are better than they've ever been, they ,IMHO, are nowhere near what a MIM fender is or has been.

[shanghaitele]

Hi.

I think that soon we are going to see more fender made in china. Acoustic already are fender brand on the headstock and made in china, maybe soon there will be a line of electric fender branded and made in china. For the time being I think these squier are excellent products in the fender catalogue and except for the branding issue that is more a marketing issue it's a clear signal that the "made in china" is ready To compete also in term of quality and not only price.

[musicmatty]

Originally Posted by skrewflanders

I completely disagree, respecfully of course.
I've played and owned more than my share of squires (affinity and standard, strats and pbasses mostly) over the years, and while they have definately improved in quality over the years and are better than they've ever been, they ,IMHO, are nowhere near what a MIM fender is or has been.

Interesting..I to respecfully disagree with your belief. As someone who owns MIMs and works on guitars, I've seen more dismal guitars then one would expect from a Famed name product. No..indeed..the Chinese are trully kicking the pants off of the products that are made closer to home..if for no other reason than they have a much more watchful eye on Quality Control than the factories here closer to home...this is becoming more evident on this forum with all the post about QA issues

[wshelley]

I too will disagree. As far as standard of excellence for a value, Squier is best. But just excellent guitars? The custom shop still carries that title. Although most are outrageously expensive, it would be tough for you to convince me that many if any Squiers could rival a CS guitar head to head. For the money, absolutely, but strictly based on a comparison of the guitars, I don't think it's even close.

[pchilson]

Give the CS $379 and let them go nuts... I'm kidding of course but they wouldn't get out of bed for that money.

[Longhorn]

The hardware and standard features are usually the major price cut. It seems that Squier now uses pretty good alder on almost their entire line. Their necks on the more premium models (basically everything I've played but the affinity) are also pretty impressive. The fit and finish coming from these imported factories is good too. This doesn't leave much to screw up and lays a good foundation for good tone. They then throw in cheaply made (but alnico) pickups so the guitars sound pretty dang good. I think Squier's goal has changed more to providing the essence and basic tone of the said guitar. It's like they saved money by putting a solid, non-trem bridge and simplifying all the switches and controls on your Jazzmaster, but put all the savings towards better tone.

[roscoestring]

I've never owned a MIA Fender but I have played a few. I do own a MIM Strat and I've played other MIMs. While I'm not overly impressed with the MICs, I have always loved my Squiers. I've owned a lot of Indonesian made. The MICs are getting better but still not what I'm looking for. I do wish that Americans would take a little more pride in making things for ourselves though.

[musicmatty]

Originally Posted by wshelley

I too will disagree. As far as standard of excellence for a value, Squier is best. But just excellent guitars? The custom shop still carries that title. Although most are outrageously expensive, it would be tough for you to convince me that many if any Squiers could rival a CS guitar head to head. For the money, absolutely, but strictly based on a comparison of the guitars, I don't think it's even close.

Again, you are taking labor cost of these two Country's completley out of the equasion here..you've totally missed the key points of my post. As for CS guitar head to head..with this axe I just bought..yes I would go head to head with CS axe...you think because it's a CS axe there is some special magic in the mix The CS has quality parts which this axe has and the CS has what should be above all else..a watchful Q & A eye on detail and craftsmanship...this Chinese axe has that in spades. You should get a one peice body with the CS guitar..and this Squier has 3..the rest of this is not $$$$$ apart...but in labor cost ..yes, it is $$$$$$ apart

[Durtdog]

Originally Posted by musicmatty

Again, you are taking labor cost of these two Country's completley out of the equasion here..you've totally missed the key points of my post. As for CS guitar head to head..with this axe I just bought..yes I would go head to head with CS axe...you think because it's a CS axe there is some special magic in the mix The CS has quality parts which this axe has and the CS has what should be above all else..a watchful Q & A eye on detail and craftsmanship...this Chinese axe has that in spades. You should get a one peice body with the CS guitar..and this Squier has 3..the rest of this is not $$$$$ apart...but in labor cost ..yes, it is $$$$$$ apart

And I suppose you'd put your new Chinese modeling amp up against the best amps in the world? It's largely a matter of opinion.

I'm glad you're happy with your stuff, that's all that's really important. You don't need to convince anyone else.

[musicmatty]

[QUOTE=Longhorn;3102387]The hardware and standard features are usually the major price cut. It seems that Squier now uses pretty good alder on almost their entire line. Their necks on the more premium models (basically everything I've played but the affinity) are also pretty impressive. The fit and finish coming from these imported factories is good too. This doesn't leave much to screw up and lays a good foundation for good tone. They then throw in cheaply made (but alnico) pickups so the guitars sound pretty dang good. I think Squier's goal has changed more to providing the essence and basic tone of the said guitar. It's like they saved money by putting a solid, non-trem bridge and simplifying all the switches and controls on your Jazzmaster, but put all the savings towards better tone.[/QUOTE]

I don't agree...they call this the "Vintage modified" Jazzmaster. The Trem bridge was not favored by all players just like the trem bridge on the Strats. Simplifying the switches to being stacked pots isn't exaclty what I would call a cost cutting method..but rather brialliant. For me, I prefer this over 4 knobs taking up space on top of the body and trying to figure out which knob goes with what pup See for me..I totally get the more modern appointments on this axe and the modern 9.5 radius and the top loading bridge which was another draw point for me. If this axe had 4 knobs on the top..I would have never bought it...not comming from a Tele which is very simple to a 4 knob layout with swithces added to the mix. No..the Old Jazzmaster would not be for a guy like me..but this axe speaks to me and Im sure many others

[Mark Moore]

When they stop with the hideous plastic truss rod insert and do the neck right I'll consider it.

No offense.

[musicmatty]

Originally Posted by Durtdog

And I suppose you'd put your new Chinese modeling amp up against the best amps in the world? It's largely a matter of opinion. I'm glad you're happy with your stuff, that's all that's really important. You don't need to convince anyone else.

Well...now that you opened that can of worms...yes I would put it up against any other amp. See..I own a Fender Deville twin amp sitting at the top of the Mustang IV in the pic below...this Deville is super sweet and is also 3xs the cost of the Mustang IV..as I paid just $450. for this amp. I have to say..this Mustang amp is the best Amp I have played thru..no, it's not tube..but it's technology and that has won the race here. The 2 twin 12" speakers are as good as whats in the Deville. This amp sounds as good as any Fender tube and can do things that none of them can do on there own and it does it extremely well I might add. It made a believer out of me..not because I now own it...I didn't need it..but it was and is that good

[Durtdog]

Originally Posted by musicmatty

This amp sounds as good as any Fender tube and can do things that none of them can do on there own and it does it extremely well I might add.

As I said, it's largely a matter of opinion. One I don't share with you.

[RussBert]

So "stuff" can be built in China for less money than here in the States. Big friggin' deal. Keep buying those chinese products and maybe we can put all American manufacturing right out of business

/rant

[wshelley]

Originally Posted by musicmatty

Again, you are taking labor cost of these two Country's completley out of the equasion here..you've totally missed the key points of my post. As for CS guitar head to head..with this axe I just bought..yes I would go head to head with CS axe...you think because it's a CS axe there is some special magic in the mix The CS has quality parts which this axe has and the CS has what should be above all else..a watchful Q & A eye on detail and craftsmanship...this Chinese axe has that in spades. You should get a one peice body with the CS guitar..and this Squier has 3..the rest of this is not $$$$$ apart...but in labor cost ..yes, it is $$$$$$ apart

Wasn't really trying to argue with you, just stating my opinion. What I was actually trying to do was take money completely out of it; price, mfg. cost, everything. If your post was to say that Squiers were a better value than CS, then I think I conceded that point and fully agree that Squiers are probably 100x the bang for your buck that a CS is. But if your post was to say that a Squier was as good as a CS piece for piece and in terms of quality control across the entire line, I still disagree.

No need to belittle those who disagree to say they only see "special magic" in a CS guitar, being the only difference in a CS and Squier. I think you would be in rare company to believe the best thing to come out of the Squier factory can compare with the absolute top of the line CS.

I'm glad you found a guitar you like that was also a Squier, and was also a gem, which inevitably is what is important. Obviously both CS and Squier have gems and duds. I, however, still believe the CS to be the Standard of Excellence within Fender.

[Longhorn]

Matt, I'm not saying the solid bridge and the switch change was a bad idea.. I'm saying that this is the reason they simplify.. to get the core tone and essence of the guitar they are basing the models on. The original Jazzmasters are pretty confusing when you pick one up, but the guy who prefers historical correctness is going to insist that the best Jazzmaster has a traditional control/bridge setup. Part of it is respecting the original design. If it wasn't for these crazy controls there would be no Squier line to make all these bang-for-your-buck guitars.

This applies to your modelling amp too. Keep in mind it's using a computer to best emulate the tone and distortion generated by classic Fender tube amps. If it wasn't for tube amps, vintage technology, and low power AlNiCo speakers.. there would be no distortion or crunch in an electric guitar today.

[PJ]

Although I'm new to the Squier ownership experience, I have to say the CV is a terrific product, and I have Teles older than most people I know. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fender open a factory in China or acquire one (something they do a lot of thesedays). As for the solid-state amp technology, I'm an old-timer, who grew-up with Bassmans, Bandmasters and Super Reverbs and I've owned 2 Fender solid state amps. And, I agree, they've done a fabulous job developing the technology - and it's terrific. I think the most recent Ultimate Chorus I have was made in Mexico, the one before that was made here. Both great amps (one was a Princeton Chorus). And, although neither of these amps are made anymore, I've enjoyed both of them and am glad to get your review of the Mustang Series. I expect I'll try one of those sometime soon. And, the Squier Jazzmaster looks quite nice, as well!