Is Squier becoming the Standard Of Excelence Within Fender ?

[mtjo62]

The CV and Thinline Teles as well as the VM/DLX strats are very nice and basically ready to gig "out of the box". I haven't played the rest of the CV line, so I have no opinion on those. The VM Custom Teles as well as the Standard series are not far behind. I find the rest of the VM teles to consistently have poorly dressed frets. I don't know about comparing a CV model to a CS, but many of the Squiers would be in the MIM price points if mfg'd in North America. Think about this, the MIM Fender Classics are almost identical in spec to the CVs except for the vintage frets and radius. I am just not convinced that is worth an extra $350 for the decal. With a son in college and one heading that way in 2013, I sincerely thank FMIC for putting great guitars within my budget.

[3 Chord]

Originally Posted by RussBert

So "stuff" can be built in China for less money than here in the States. Big friggin' deal. Keep buying those chinese products and maybe we can put all American manufacturing right out of business

/rant

Bingo! Plus have you ever played a JV or a SQ serial number Squier? Squiers are getting there now I guess but I don't think they are the best ever. MIJ Squiers were pretty nice.

CV's may be nice guitars but if you need a guitar with no mods, to sound good at stage volumes and stay in tune, night after night, I wouldn't be grabbing a CV if money wasn't an issue.

And I will admit, I do own 3 Squiers, but no MIC ones.

I have yet to see a neck like on the MIM James Burton, Baja or the Classics on a CV. CV necks seem to fit when the player isn't looking for much heft. And in my experience, with heft comes tone.

So to answer the OP question, I wouldn't say Squier is becoming the standard of excellence for Fender but they are making better guitars as of late for those wanting to buy them.

[Racer5]

The improvements seem to have been across the board--you guys say that squier has really stepped up recently--the new issues of both MIM and MIA scaled up as well and are equally impressive to me.


American manufacturing? Eh, what's the saying, MIM is made by mexicans in mexico, and MIA is made by mexicans a couple hundred miles north of them?

[paulsoud]

Originally Posted by shanghaitele

Hi.

I think that soon we are going to see more fender made in china. Acoustic already are fender brand on the headstock and made in china, maybe soon there will be a line of electric fender branded and made in china. For the time being I think these squier are excellent products in the fender catalogue and except for the branding issue that is more a marketing issue it's a clear signal that the "made in china" is ready To compete also in term of quality and not only price.

Hmm... No bias here

[Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Racer5

American manufacturing? Eh, what's the saying, MIM is made by mexicans in mexico, and MIA is made by mexicans a couple hundred miles north of them?

Too true!!!!!

[Mad Kiwi]

Well, i have a CV50 tele and a CV60 strat (amongst 12 other mid price guitars). I was loaned a friends reissue tele for a few weeks (you know the mega expensive ones, 52 is it?) and quite frankly feel both guitars are at least the equal in fit and finish AND tone (although a different tone admittedly).

All be it they have slightly thinner necks etc, they play as well if not better.

And for the guy who got his knickers in a knot over the comparison between Squire and CS, How well does a guitar need to play before you are investing in brand, appearance and snobbery for your own feel good factor?

Surely, some of these great sounding Squire Guitars (the good ones at least) IN PERFORMANCE, can be the equal of your cherished, don't blaspheme, the sacred CS guitar?

I mean really, if you couldn't see David Gilmour, Mark Knopfler or Joe down the streets headstock while he was NAILING a piece of music, could you really tell the difference from 15+ feet away?

I would bet not. Which leaves the CS adding what to the equation?

AND in that situation, isn't the music and performance the whole point of owning, playing or watching a guitar being played. Not cork sniffing the brand and label?

Phhhg - Oh he can't be any good, it's only a squire, not even a reissue. Move on nothing to see here, bound to go out of tune. Now wheres that guy who plays a real guitar....?

[musicmatty]

This post was not about comparing CS to CV and the rest of the upper Squeir models. The CS is a very Elite part of the Fender product..the sum of their guitars are mostly American issues or MIMs and of course the Squire line which they have a peice of, or they would not be putting there Famed Logo on it.

Maybe I should have been more clear in my post, but I think the Squire line is quickly rising to the level and in some cases above the American and MIM models with quality and consistancy. Again, I don't own the CV or CVC but I have played them and after viewing and playing and now owning the new Vintage Modified JazzMaster and giving a solid workout at band practice today...it's more than what the Squeir Logo once represented. I would urge others to look at this guitar..not for buying..but for the QA of this new axe and play it thru a decent amp and tell me it's not a diamond in the ruff? Squeir is looking to dethrone the others just as Toyota and Honda did to the American Automobile industry...I doubt Im the only who is seeing this unfold..the proof is in the product...certainly not in my rant.

[3 Chord]

People who buy CS Fenders don't do so just to be snobs. They like their CS guitars just like others like their Squiers. To each their own but the OP asked if recent Squiers are the new standard of excellence.

Some of us think no. That doesn't make us bad people. And some of would like to think that Fender manufacturing will always remain in the USA. Again that doesn't make us bad people, but it is easy to get emotions involved when we talk about things we all love, our favorite guitar.

I would always hope the "best" Fenders come from the country that invented them. Americans are good at that, inventing cool stuff.

[avagadro]

Fender needs to look after the quality of its American guitars

[Mad Kiwi]

Fender needs to look after the quality of its American guitars

AND the price. I WOULD buy an american fender if the product was reasonably priced and of good quality. But for us in NZ (not sure of you in US) it is approximately double the price of a CV squire at the beginning level and moiving up triple, quadriple for anything interesting.

I know it's not the OP's point but he is comapring Squires to a standard of excellance, What is considered the standard of excellence in the Fender range....Custom Shop?

I am sure the Custom Shops are better, but for the price and the end result, the music. I can't see it and i agree, The CV and some VM Squires do seem to be superb guitars.

Some can't get past racial prejudice of China manufacturing or NOT U.S manufacturing. Seems pretty narrow minded to me to not see beyond that....

I think most people would rather see Fender USA get the sales and rewards of such a great product BUT, licensed by Fender does feed some profit back to the US surely?

And it seems such a shame to miss out on some wonderfull guitars because of these (to me petty) reasons. I mean really, who is kidding who here, A squire CV Guitar not staying in tune because it is chinese, good grief!

Has anyone seen the Squire VM Jazz Bass in Natural, what a great example of a superb price for a great instrument.

[rangercaster]

the original Squiers (1982-83 MIJ) were very high quality guitars ... equivalent to the Fender Japan guitars of the same era (which matched or exceeded MIA quality,) but with cheaper electronics ... Fender can put out whatever quality and price range they want ... as long as people will buy it, and they can maintain a profit margin ...

[paratus]

I don't think Squiers are the new standard of excellence. I do think they are a whole lot better then they used to be, and great value for the right player. They are not for me, I don't like the necks. Yes indeed, some MIA Fender's have poor QC, both old and new. I own a couple oldies that are awesome, and played a lot of newer ones before I selected the ones I liked best. In my opinion they are better than any of the Squiers I have seen, I liked the necks better so I was willing to pay more. That's just me. I was also happy to buy American. I think that is a good thing to do all else being equal.

[wshelley]

Originally Posted by Mad Kiwi

AND the price. I WOULD buy an american fender if the product was reasonably priced and of good quality. But for us in NZ (not sure of you in US) it is approximately double the price of a CV squire at the beginning level and moiving up triple, quadriple for anything interesting.

I know it's not the OP's point but he is comapring Squires to a standard of excellance, What is considered the standard of excellence in the Fender range....Custom Shop?

I am sure the Custom Shops are better, but for the price and the end result, the music. I can't see it and i agree, The CV and some VM Squires do seem to be superb guitars.

Some can't get past racial prejudice of China manufacturing or NOT U.S manufacturing. Seems pretty narrow minded to me to not see beyond that....

I think most people would rather see Fender USA get the sales and rewards of such a great product BUT, licensed by Fender does feed some profit back to the US surely?

And it seems such a shame to miss out on some wonderfull guitars because of these (to me petty) reasons. I mean really, who is kidding who here, A squire CV Guitar not staying in tune because it is chinese, good grief!

Has anyone seen the Squire VM Jazz Bass in Natural, what a great example of a superb price for a great instrument.

I think its a huge generalization to say that people think CS is better than Squier because of racial prejudice and anti-Chinese nationalism. You say yourself that the Custom Shop is better than Squier, but not for the money, which I think everyone agrees with. Squier is making improvements at a much faster rate than any other division of Fender and putting out the best value product of any Fender brand. That was the point of the OP which he clarified. But in regards to the question of what is the Standard of Excellence within the brand, I also think there is a pretty clear consensus toward the CS. Sorry to derail the thread with all the CS talk, I guess I misunderstood the OP's original question, but I think there is agreement on both points.

[Mad Kiwi]

Fair summary.

I just get frustrated when someone says a CV Squire won't stay in tune all night so he won't consider them and other people on this board DO say it's chinese, i wont. It just seems so illogical and closed minded. Each to thier own I guess.

But your point is taken.

[bynapkinart]

Originally Posted by Mark Moore

When they stop with the hideous plastic truss rod insert and do the neck right I'll consider it.

No offense.

For what it's worth, the truss rod inserts on the CV50s (and possibly all of the Classic Vibes) are all rosewood.

[cobrat]

I've heard from everyone...including the good folks on TDPRI that overall quality across all Fender and Squier lines has been ramped up since around 2006.

Considering all of this, can one gig with a stock MIM standard with ceramic pups* in a large arena setting?

Are stock squiers....especially the Affinity/Bullet series giggable at stage volumes in venues ranging from bars with reasonably sized stages to arena sized venues like Madison Square Garden?

Why or why not?

* Know plenty of people who gig with MIM standards...but they perform mods such as swapping out the pups on them.

[3 Chord]

Originally Posted by Mad Kiwi

Fair summary.

I just get frustrated when someone says a CV Squire won't stay in tune all night so he won't consider them and other people on this board DO say it's chinese, i wont. It just seems so illogical and closed minded. Each to thier own I guess.

But your point is taken.

FWIW, I have tried to gig with MIC Squiers in the past and I did not find them stable platforms to play live with. I never have had any problems with my trusty old 76 Tele or 1990 Tele when I had that. I don't gig with my MIJ, MIK or MIM Squiers, they are my around the house guitars.

So it's not because I am closed minded, the fact is some of the MIC Squiers I played out with had tuners, bridges and pickups as weak points. I am sure the new CV stuff is better but "the new standard of excellence?"

I drive full sized MIA 4X4 vehicles for the same reason, I feel they handle what I dish out to them. I guess I just like MIA stuff if I have a choice.

[Oster]

No.

[Green Lantern]

Originally Posted by Oster

No.

+1

o___ob

[XKnight]

I won't buy a guitar that's made in China regardless of the quality or low price/perceived value. I'll gladly spend an extra $1000 or more for a guitar made in the U.S.A. If I could avoid other Chinese products I would, but that is getting almost impossible to do these days. At least when buying cars, motorcycles, guitars and amps I can still easily choose how I spend my money.