Copyright over a circuit?

[dirtytricks]

Hi all,

I am thinking about building and selling my own effects pedals, I have a reasonable knowledge of the topic in terms of the construction of the pedals but im interested in your thoughts on the legal side of this?

Obviously most pedals in basic terms i.e. overdrives, boost pedals, wah wah's etc are copies or variations on effects from the 60's etc.....

1) At what point, if at all does the circuit either become your own design

or

2) When do you by taking the circuit design of a vintage pedal (and using this as a basis) begin to 'copy designs' and pass them off as your own? Surley when looking at the basic style pedals most variations of the circuits have been used and tampered with before?

Ideally, Id like to make some money from this venture but dont wish to break any laws etc.

Thanks!

Andy

[smoss469]

I don't think you can copyright a circuit, but you can copyright a PCB layout IIRC.

[TeleAnon]

Check with your lawyer, not the internetz.

[Jack FFR1846]

You can also patent a circuit. I created 2 patents owned by the companies I worked for at the time. Who owns the patent is sometimes as important as what the patent says. I started a new job 3 weeks ago. They patented their original idea for a new intermediate bus archetecture for isolated switching power supplies. The big guys came in and violated the patents blatently but the patent owners fought it for years. We just won over $100M against the violators and they have effectively been pushed out of the market for this type of supply.

So....you're going to want to do a patent search before going too far.

[dirtytricks]

Great stuff,

Thanks for the advice guys, Ive been doing my research and it seems to be a minefield, loads to look into still!

Cheers!

Andy

[smoss469]

If you could copyright a guitar circuit, why are there multiple people making tube screamers using the same parts? How is JHS getting by with selling a clone of a Devi Ever Hyperion? I think PCB layouts are what's protected, not schematics (for the most part). A lot of them are really just pieces from other older circuits. There are only so many ways to clip a signal.

[ludashoeless]

Why don't you just buy a lot of Joyo pedals and some Nutella?

[Ledoux]

Patents and copyrights expire over time. Patents' have set periods of protection, but copyrights are subject to interpretation depending on how they are policed by the holder. It can be difficult to discern when a copyright is valid, but if others are building copies chances are the copyright isn't being enforced so no worries. If you change the specifications, even slightly, that can have a profound impact on whether you are breaching a patent or copyright. If you're truly worried, I'd check with a patent attorney.

FYI, this info. is just what I remember from my patent law lectures in engineering school. I do remember that it was highly recommended to employ a patent attorney in such matters because of the intricacies of patent law.

[Montana_Dawg]

Patents require inventions that are innovative. There is nothing innovative about the majority of analog pedals out there. Most of the circuits are run-of-the-mill basic configurations found in any electronics cook book.

While you cannot patent a pedal (for the most part), you CAN copyright a schematic or PCB layout, even if it is a copy, as long as there is enough difference from the original that it isn't an exact copy.

There is a guy on the internet that sells kits for mods to pedals that claims he will bring legal action against anyone that copies them. This is ridiculous because the layout he uses are pictures of the actual product, which he did not design. Furthermore, nothing in his mods would be condisered a breah of copyright if they were copied.

Like most laws, the patent/trademark/copyright laws can be confusing and intimidating. If you think you have an innovative idea, then by all means research the process.

There are circuits that can be patented such as the Digital Signal Processing that is becoming prevalent. These are complex digital circuits that are still evolving.

[Kyluckyman]

Originally Posted by TeleAnon

Check with your lawyer, not the internetz.

I was going to say. I'm sure there are attorneys in NYC, LA, Chicago and Nashville that are familiar with musical instruments/accessories and can help you.

If you are applying new technology, you might need a patent attorney.

[ludashoeless]

Originally Posted by ludashoeless

Why don't you just buy a lot of Joyo pedals and some Nutella?

no one gets my joke????

[DoodlySquat]

I'm guessing this thread may go bye bye.

[SngleCoil]

Originally Posted by ludashoeless

no one gets my joke????

Of course...but beating a dead horse loses its funny pretty quickly

[Dr. Pants]

I'm guessing this thread may go bye bye.

As long as no one makes reference to those
infamous Germans (pronounced "not-z") we'll
be fine.