CLEAN booster that doesn't brighten tone?

[RomanS]

I just built a mini booster (Jack Orman design, I used his PCB board and added some mods, and made it work with the help of some of you guys here!), and gigged it for the first time this week-end - great for making solos stand out with my Tele, because it tightens up the signal (preventing muddyness), adds a bit of treble (to help cut through) and grit - love it!

But I still need another booster...

I switch between lap steel and Tele in my band, and my lap steel has much less output than my Tele (and no amount of pickup height tweaking is going to cure that), but also is much brighter. I have an A/B switch on my pedal board to switch from lap steel to Tele, but I still have to roll back the treble pot on the lap steel and turn up the volume on the amp when I switch to lap steel, or else it gets lost in the mix. Unfortunately, as cool as the mini booster is for making solos stand out on my Tele, it does not work for my lap steel, because it makes it too bright/ice-picky and adds too much grit.

So, I'd like to build a booster that
-) helps to make up for the volume difference.
-) DOESN'T brighten the tone (apparently - I haven't had a chance to try them all - a lot of popular boosters - MXR Micr Amp, AMZ Mosfet booster, SHO, etc.) tend to "freshen up" = brighten the signal - I DO NOT WANT THAT! If I want a change in tone at all, I want it in the opposite direction - fuller/warmer/fatter).
-) ideallly, this would be an "always on" booster that doesn't even need a switch, just a volume control - it would sit between my lap steel and A/B-box - or maybe I would even try to fit it inside my lap steel...

Anybody have an idea for an easy to build, simple booster that doesn't brighten/"freshen up" the signal, and doesn't add grit/overdrive/distort at all? (Oh, and BTW, the EHx LPB is NOT what I'm looking for, I've got one of those and it is waaay too gritty; from the sound samples I've heard, a Klon set up for boost only would be perfect - but a bit out of my price range...)

[11 Gauge]

Try building a LPB-1, at least as a starting point.

Since the input impedance is inherently lower than other devices, you don't get much (if any) of the brightness that you do with other boosts.

And of course you can further tweak the input impedance (lower it) to darken things more.

Another option would be to build an op amp boost with an externally compensated chip. The LM301 is a cheap low gain device that is easy to "darken" by dropping the input impedance and increasing the compensation cap value. You could basically alter the Micro Amp circuit around the 301.

Another idea is to simply add a low pass filter tone control, but I personally haven't had much personal satisfaction with it. I find that I'm constantly fiddling with the tone knob instead of concentrating on playing. I will never understand why the Fat Boost is as popular as it is.

Edited to add: sorry - missed your part about the LPB-1. But if you bias it differently, you can lose much of the grit. Try pushing the resistor on the emitter up to at least 680 ohms, and you might want to go as high as ~1.5K. But if you do that, also increase the base to ground resistor to ~100K. Another option is a series pot on the input, roughly 50K-100K. That will really kill the brights and remove enough gain to keep the transistor from clipping. And yet another option would be a lower gain transistor, like a BC237B. Just make sure you get your E/B/C pinout correct.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by RomanS

from the sound samples I've heard, a Klon set up for boost only would be perfect - but a bit out of my price range...)

Many folks who love the Klon are also pretty satisfied with the RC Booster. It's comparatively cheap, but the circuit is also simple enough to build your own.

The RC is actually simpler than a TS in some respects since the signal is fed through the inverted inputs on the op amp. Alternatively, if you didn't need or want the bass and treble controls, you could modify a single op amp into the first stage of the RC.

[gtrplr]

RomanS, I have exactly the same problem (except I play pedal steel instead of lap), and I've been using an A/B box to switch between the two. I've been thinking the Seymour Duncan Pickup Booster might be what I'm looking for. It also has a switch which lowers the resonance of the pickup which (they claim) makes a single coil pup sound more like a humbucker. With a max of 25db of gain on tap, it would make the steel easily keep up with a tele. Street price about $80, although I've seen them used on CL and eBay for about half that. I may give one a shot.

If you're looking for something to build, you might check some of the diy forums (diystompboxes.com or freestompboxes.org). They might have some more suggestions. I know Aron who runs diystompboxes.com has a gallery of layouts and schematics which might have something. It's accessible from the homepage.

You might also try something like a graphic eq pedal (Boss, Behringer, MXR) which would let you eq the steel as well as giving a volume boost. If you're set on building one, buildyourownclone.com has a ten band for less than a $100 bill.

Or, you could run two amps.

[HoodieMcFoodie]

Maybe you should try the "beginners booster" from DIYStompboxes.com

It's a really nice clean booster and pretty transparent. It's also pretty easy to build.

[RomanS]

Thanks, guys!

gtrplr,
yeah, the SD pickup booster is already on my watchlist - but it has a relatively large footprint, and I want to keep my pedal board as small as possible, that's why I want something that I can put into a tiny box, or even inside the lap steel, I don't even need a switch for it, since it is going to be always on, anyway.

HMF,
gotta check that one out!

11gauge,
I might try and play around with my selfmade LPB clone a bit more; I already tried lowering R3 (following this schematic http://diy.musikding.de/content/view/27/8/ )from 430k to 330-360k, since this is supposed to make it cleaner- which it did, but still not enough to make it not break up; the resistor on the emitter you're talking about would be R4 in this schematic, and base to ground would be R2, right?

[tonfarbe]

Roman, try an RC Booster.
The RC has a pair of VERY effective tone knobs + with Treble and Bass at noon, it doesn't alter your sound.

I did a very quick recording for comparison:
1. lick without the RC and then with the RC Booster on (subtle boost)
2. chords with RC off ... then RC on (Treble + Bass at 12 o'clock) ... RC with Treble all the way down ... RC with Treble all the way up ... RC with Bass all the way down ... RC with Bass all the way up
3. G-chord with fast on/off switching

Hope that helps...here's the sample: http://www.armeirre.de/jotka/tdpri/RC_Booster.mp3

[RomanS]

Sounds nice - but IU want to build something myself; hmm, gotta see whether I can dig up a schematic for the RC...

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by RomanS

the resistor on the emitter you're talking about would be R4 in this schematic, and base to ground would be R2, right?

Yes - R4 biases the transistor to ground off of the emitter. 390 ohms will drive a bipolar fairly hard. For a good reference, compare the recovery stage of a Big Muff (stage 4). It uses typically 2.7K-3.3K, so that there is negligible distortion after the tone stack.

And yes - if you push up R4, you typically need to increase R2 as well. 100K is usually fine, but some folks go up to ~150K to remove more treble and grit.

For starters, I'd make R4 680 ohms and R2 100K. If that gets you close but still distorting, increase R4 to 1K.

After that, you could continue to increase those two resistors (or a pair of trimpots might even work better), but I'd actually just switch to a lower gain transistor. BC237B is almost perfect, IMO. It's easy to get it to sound "soft," IMO. It has a nominal hFE of around 300, whereas a BC239C/2N5088 is around 600-700.

[62_Inca_Esquire]

A op amp boost running at a higher voltage than 9V will give you the most "true" sound. Try using a charge pump and high quality jfet input op amp together and tweak from there.

[red57strat]

The BMF Fat Bastard that I won in the holiday drawing here several years ago is probably just what you're looking for.

The parts in it are epoxied over but I can tell you that there are less parts in it than in the AMZ Mini Booster that I built a while back and it doesn't increase my presence like the Mini Booster did. It makes my tone fatter. Louder, if I like, as well.

It's maker compared it to a parallel/series switch on a Tele.

I love the thing. It's just about perfect at what it does.

The original Fulltone Fat Boost gets a lot of bad rap here for, not only being a knock off of the AMZ Mini Booster, but for being duller in tone than the Mini Booster. I have one and like it a lot. Like the Fat Bastard, it does not increase brightness as much as the Mini Booster.

Maybe if you compared the schematic of the two of them you could modify the AMZ Mini Booster design to sound similar to the original Fat Boost.

[11 Gauge]

Originally Posted by red57strat

The original Fulltone Fat Boost gets a lot of bad rap here for, not only being a knock off of the AMZ Mini Booster, but for being duller in tone than the Mini Booster. I have one and like it a lot. Like the Fat Bastard, it does not increase brightness as much as the Mini Booster.

The biggest issue with the Fat Boost is that you can't bypass the tone circuitry. Since it is basically a mu amp, it's still adding the brightness that you'll get from a high input impedance, but the LP filter after the boost robs some top end, even at minimum settings.

[Brad J]

How about Paul C's Fat Boostered, a Orman mu-amp with a tone stack.

There's vero versions of this floating around too.

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/...=69&Itemid=100

[RomanS]

Thanks for the additional suggestions! Didn't get around to modding the LPB yet, but I did adda 500pF silver mica cap to ground at the input of the mini booster, and that helped tameing some of the presence...

[playon]

This might sound weird, but try a modded rangemaster build. If you can find a quiet, medium-to-high gain NPN ge transistor, you can make a very warm sounding full range boost out of the simple rangemaster circuit. You might have to audition a couple of different transistors & tweak a resistor or two to bias the transistor. Try different value input and output caps to get a nice tone range rather than a treble boost. I like to use a pot to blend between two input caps to choose the amount of low end, which is very handy when switching between different instruments/pickups.

[fernando]

playon: nice! thank you
One Q: in your schem the 470k and 47k resistors are not connected to the base of the tr. is that correct? (in the Rangemaster they do)

some other alternatives/variations around Rangemaster:

http://www.rangemaster.de/

http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/rangemaster.php

http://freestompboxes.org/viewtopic....st=0&sk=t&sd=a
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Original or closest:
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http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folder...master/drm.htm

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[HoodieMcFoodie]

Here's another option. Don Tillman's discrete FET guitar preamp as discussed in this thread over here

[RomanS]

Originally Posted by HoodieMcFoodie

Here's another option. Don Tillman's discrete FET guitar preamp as discussed in this thread over here

Yeah, I've read that thread, but 3dB doesn't sound like it would be enough for my purposes...

[EffectsGuru]

Honestly I own a MXR Micro Amp and it does a great job... and I know a lot of the new pedals suck tone.. it does not seem to do that... it's not the best "BOOST" pedal... but it's the best for making single coil get some umph.... for example... my custom shop first act guitar has 3 lipstick tube pickups and their SUPER low output... so I use the Micro Amp and it makes those sound like normal single coils... (they're to low output for me, they cut my amps total volume by at least 1/4 !).

[SlideGuy123]

Hey, Roman -
Didn't realize you were here as well as at the Steel Guitar Forum. I don't have an issue with volume, as my steel is pretty loud, but I use a homebuilt Fetzer Valve booster (from runoffgrove.com) for solos -- it's made to emulate the first stage of a Fender amp. It does add a tiny bit of presence, but it doesn't really make the steel brighter -- like you, I usually need to tone down my high end. The overall sound is terrific, no grit whatsoever, and it's a very simple, single JFET circuit -- the board could fit inside your steel. A Stratoblaster might work, too.

Another thought -- you could add a simple tone circuit to your LPB (or the Fetzer), like the Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control (search on DIYstompboxes.com) -- few parts, works well. Or try a smaller volume pot, which might tone down the high end.

I use a micro amp for solo boosts for my banjo and haven't noticed that it adds brightness, but different pickups will react differently, I'm sure.

Regards,
Peter

[RomanS]

Hi Peter,
I actually just built a Stratoblaster - and it seems to be the best one of the boosters I tried yet; almost no bass cut, and the increase in brightness is not extreme, it also stays clean up to the boost levels I need.

But I might go a different route, after all - I recently won a Zoom Powerdrive on Ebay, and while this one is nothing special as an overdrive, with the gain turned down all the way it is THE BEST booster I ever tried (OK, haven't had a chance to play a Klon Centaur yet...) - it can do a 100% neutral boost - just more volume, without any changes in tone whatsoever; or you can add or subtract bass & treble as you like with the 2-band EQ on the Powerdrive...
This Zoom already went on my mid-size pedalboard that I use with my country/rockabilly/roots rock-cover-band; but I also play in an Alt.Country/Americana duo, where I don't need a big pedalboard with lots of effects, so I'm building a box with just a low gain OD, and a booster section - I'll probably use that Stratoblaster, or else use a "negative boost" - just an extra foot-switchable volume pot, that allows me to set a lower volume for guitar, and then switch that pot out of the circuit for a higher volume with lap steel...

[SlideGuy123]

Makes sense, Roman - I've done the "negative boost" thing, and it works fine, as long as you have enough signal to begin with. I tried doing that with my banjo, but the pickup output wasn't strong enough. In your case, where you're trying to quiet down the Tele a bit, should be perfect. Plus, one less active box in the signal path.

Peter
www.splinterville.com
www.myspace.com/splinterville

[bradpdx]

Since both the EQ and volume are different between the lap steel and the guitar, why not use an active EQ pedal instead of a boost? That way you could certainly add gain AND adjust the excess treble. Might be the best cure.

Any old Boss EQ would do.

BTW, boosts like the Stratoblaster DON'T add treble. They only PREVENT treble losses due to cable load on passive pickups, which is why they sound brighter.

[callaway]

Sounds like my BYOC 5-knob compressor would be perfect for the job. It's a bit more complex than some of these other options, but would give you opportunity for level boost, a little bit of compression, and a tone control.

[tele_player]

It might sound too simple, but I'd probably try adding some capacitance to the cable on the lap steel to knock off some highs. Cheap and easy to try.

[jmclaren]

I built and use a GGG Stratoblaster. Pure boost, with no tone coloration.

[Keeso]

Originally Posted by jmclaren

I built and use a GGG Stratoblaster. Pure boost, with no tone coloration.

+1 , and how! Man, I've built 'em all (clean boosters) and I keep coming back to the simple and delightful Stratoblaster. I tried a 2N5457 in it (one that was taken from my Orman Mini-Booster that worked best with these trannies), but I think the Stratoblaster works best with a J201 ... but I prefer one that offers a bit less gain. The Mini-Boost is rather cool for stacking, though, and I think I tried the AMZ Mosfet Boost into the Mini-Boost and that was fun. And the Mosfet Boost is a bit crispy with single coils but it works wonders when you hit a Red Llama clone with it.

But when you want to keep things simple, a Stratoblaster between a Tele (or Strat) and a Fender BF amp is a pretty nice deal!



-- that one worked best for me with 2N5457, but I grew tired of the MB ... I even added some Ge diodes to ground and a 10k pot to make it a light dirt box, but)