Sansamp - what a difference!

[Fatmanstratman]

Just won myself a Tech21 Sansamp Bass DI off the 'bay - considering that UK prices are pound-for-dollar compared to USA prices, I got myself a steal.

Only just had an hour or so trying it out, with my Jazz bass through my Peavey Basic 50. Wow! What a difference! Fantastic tones, so easy to use. It makes my aptly-named Basic 50 into a whole new amp. I'm VERY pleased.

Thanks to all who have given the Sansamp the "thumbs up" on this forum - it inspired me to dig out my credit card and give it a try. I had been considering the Behringer BDI21 V-Tone Bass DI, which - brand new - would have cost about a fifth of what I paid for the Sansamp, but I think it seems to have been money well spent.

[Tim Armstrong]

One of these days, I'm gonna get on of those things!

Congrats!

Tim

[Nazman]

what does a sans amp do exactly?
If I had one would I still use my bass rig with it?
what is the function of a sans amp

[Tim Armstrong]

It's a preamp/DI unit, designed to go between the bass and a mixer for either live performance or recording. As Fatman notes, it can really be cool with a clean, neutral-sounding amp as well.

Cheers, Tim

[Vince a]

I have and use the SansAmp RBI, which is basically a rackmount version. I use the DI out of my amp, and the hookup is the same.

Tech 21 does not recommend running the (in my case) RBI in the effects loop using the send. You can, however, plug into the SansAmp and then plug the output of the RBI into an amp's FX loop return. Here, the RBI is now the main preamp. I do like the sound of my Eden, and just want to add a little warmth to that sound. So, I just run thr RBI in front of the Eden like a stompbox.

[broadcaster]

I use mine only when going straight into FOH, to warm up the harshness.

Muddies up the tone going into an amp though...

[ducatiman]

broadcaster stated "Muddies up the tone going into an amp though..."


i disagree. thats a rather general statement which should be cleared up.
depends on amp, eq, use of sansamp controls. used liberally, sansamp can do wonders for an otherwise marginal or even crap amp. agreed, used incorrectly you can get some rather distasteful tones which however, can be DIALED OUT.

first, i'd suggest to go through the effects loop if amp is so equipped. you're bypassing the amps preamp section that way. start with your sansamp settings midway, a small turn of controls can make a BIG difference in tone.

if you're cabling through the front end, turn your amp eq's down. use the sansamps controls to flavor.

i've used mine on everything from vintage fender bassmans ,swr workingman 15 combo , hartke 5500, swr 550x using speakers from 1x15, 4x10 right on up to ampeg 8x10 fridge with GREAT results from sparkly clean to adding grind.

anything less, i think you should rethink your settings, FWIW, IMHO, YMMV.

----------------ducatiman

[GoldieLocks]

I've been using mine for a few months now. Still love it.

but those dials do a WHOLE LOT. I'm constantly tweaking it with every different P.A. system I come across.
I thought an EDEN amps built in D.I. would be way better than the sans amp.

[broadcaster]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

broadcaster stated "Muddies up the tone going into an amp though..."


i disagree. thats a rather general statement which should be cleared up.
depends on amp, eq, use of sansamp controls. used liberally, sansamp can do wonders for an otherwise marginal or even crap amp. agreed, used incorrectly you can get some rather distasteful tones which however, can be DIALED OUT.

first, i'd suggest to go through the effects loop if amp is so equipped. you're bypassing the amps preamp section that way. start with your sansamp settings midway, a small turn of controls can make a BIG difference in tone.

if you're cabling through the front end, turn your amp eq's down. use the sansamps controls to flavor.

i've used mine on everything from vintage fender bassmans ,swr workingman 15 combo , hartke 5500, swr 550x using speakers from 1x15, 4x10 right on up to ampeg 8x10 fridge with GREAT results from sparkly clean to adding grind.

anything less, i think you should rethink your settings, FWIW, IMHO, YMMV.

----------------ducatiman

For me, using the bass driver in front of an amp with the tube emulator setting engaged (that IS the mojo to these things), results in tone clarity getting sucked farther back in the mix. I am almost alway's playing in a band with multible instruments, so being buried in the mix is not a desirable thing. Besides the emulation circuitry of the box, the rest is just EQ which is available on the amp. I do not need another pre-amp in front of my amp or another gizmo pedal to eat up batteries or to plug in, etc.

The tone is in your fingers, man.

Now playing direct into a PA, the pedal really shines big time with passive basses, IMO.

[giantslayer]

A sansamp is basically an amp modeler ("sans" means "without"). It basically does to your sound what an amp and cab would, thus potentially removing the need to have an amp and cab. This is useful for recording and for playing live (not having to mic an amp). The Bass Sansamp has 3 outputs - a balanced XLR output to send to the PA, a 1/4" output, and a bypassed 1/4" output. So you could plug your bass into the Sansamp, use the XLR out to the mixer, and use the bypassed 1/4" output to your on stage bass amp.

As for what happens when you use the modeled signal from the Sansamp into a regular amp, it's like any other modeler - it depends. You are getting the sound colored twice, kindof like if you hooked two amps together. If you have a thin, clean, neutral sounding amp, then the Sansamp could do a nice job thickening the tone. If your bass amp already has a nice thick tone, then the SansAmp would probably make it muddy. It all depends on how you've got the SansAmp setup and on your amp (and cab, of course).

[ducatiman]

"The tone is in your fingers, man."



huh? you ARE kidding, right?

[ducatiman]

broadcaster said-
"For me, using the bass driver in front of an amp with the tube emulator setting engaged (that IS the mojo to these things)"

are we talking about the same thing here? sansamp doesn't have a "tube emulator" setting. reading controls left to right (top row) we've got
level-blend-treble-bass-and drive. below that you've got presence.
its not a light switch ! as was mentioned earlier in this thread, small changes in combinations of the settings yield drastic changes.
take some time to carefully experiment before condemning.
read on..........



"results in tone clarity getting sucked farther back in the mix. I am almost alway's playing in a band with multible instruments, so being buried in the mix is not a desirable thing."

i'll say it again, your not using the sansamp correctly OR your settings are messed up. i play in a 3 piece hard rock, very loud drummer and a marshall stack guitar guy. both these guys will bury you *at will*. i believe my sansamp gives me some additional lattitude anywhere between clean, boom and grind (tube emulation, if you will, NOT distortion) beyond which my rig can.
it flat out works and CUTS RIGHT THROUGH.


"Besides the emulation circuitry of the box, the rest is just EQ which is available on the amp. I do not need another pre-amp in front of my amp or another gizmo pedal to eat up batteries or to plug in, etc."


well, thats my point, back off the amps eq's and use the SANSAMPS! i'm tellin ya, at your fingertips you should have the capability to deliver to your speakers tons of booming bass or nice clean, clear SLAP stuff, whatever you require ....by controlling the sansamp settings properly. i'll go further and say by using your regular amp setting PLUS the samsamp settings you are "overloading" the front end of your amp. TRY WHAT I"M TELLIN YA!!!!



start with neutral settings on your sansamp and back off your amps eq's.
if you have an effects loop , put the samsamp through it (thereby bypassing your heads pre-amp.

----------------regards, ducatiman

[broadcaster]

"are we talking about the same thing here? sansamp doesn't have a "tube emulator" setting."

1) The Blend & drive knobs add tube emulation. Check your manual.



"i'll say it again, your not using the sansamp correctly OR your settings are messed up. i play in a 3 piece hard rock, very loud drummer and a marshall stack guitar guy. both these guys will bury you *at will*. i believe my sansamp gives me some additional lattitude anywhere between clean, boom and grind (tube emulation, if you will, NOT distortion) beyond which my rig can.
it flat out works and CUTS RIGHT THROUGH. "

2) I don't need no stinkin' pedal to color-up my tone anymore than the amp's EQ. Like I have previously mentioned, I'm am in a multi-instrument band w/keyboard, guitar(s), sax and drums. Even more instruments and vocals at church. The BD compresses the tone way back into the mix through (monitor) amps.



"well, thats my point, back off the amps eq's and use the SANSAMPS! i'm tellin ya, at your fingertips you should have the capability to deliver to your speakers tons of booming bass or nice clean, clear SLAP stuff, whatever you require ....by controlling the sansamp settings properly. i'll go further and say by using your regular amp setting PLUS the samsamp settings you are "overloading" the front end of your amp. TRY WHAT I"M TELLIN YA!!!!"

3) Read point #2.



"start with neutral settings on your sansamp and back off your amps eq's.
if you have an effects loop , put the samsamp through it (thereby bypassing your heads pre-amp."

4) Reread point #2.



In a 3 piece power trio, bass has more liberty and the BD adds desirable tube bump and grind through a SS amp.

Repeating myself again, simply marvelous straight into a PA!

[don]

I use the SABDDI straight into a Mackie Powered mixer. Gigged last night and had a hard time not sounding muddy. Even in my situation there are multiple levels of tone and volume - the bass has a tone and volume, the SABDDI has multiple ways to shape tone and increase volume and the Mackie has a 3 band EQ and 2 volumes for each channell plus a master volume and master multiband EQ. It can be very intimidating in a boomy room like we had last night. The SABDDI controls do a lot of work with just a little turn so its easy to over compensate. I had a hard time finding the sweet spot between muddy and not enough bottom. Any other users like me that have a system that works consistently let me know. I'm guessing it means setting the mixer flat, the bass about 50% tone and 80% volume and let the SABDDI do the rest of the work?

[Fatmanstratman]

Originally Posted by broadcaster

... I don't need no stinkin' pedal to color-up my tone anymore than the amp's EQ. Like I have previously mentioned, I'm am in a multi-instrument band w/keyboard, guitar(s), sax and drums. Even more instruments and vocals at church. The BD compresses the tone way back into the mix through (monitor) amps.....

Repeating myself again, simply marvelous straight into a PA!

Hmmm.. I've not been playing the bass long enough to say whether broadcaster is right or wrong - but I AM a little surprised to see how strongly he feels about the Sansamp being used directly into a bass amp.

If I had found that the Sansamp didn't work for me as a "bass amp tone enhancer", I would simply have said "Sorry guys - it doesn't work for me". Please don't get me wrong, broadcaster - I'm sure you may well have an absolutely SUPERB amp with a fantastic EQ, and that's great! So why do you feel the need to slate the Sansamp if you don't need to use it in the first place? I just don't see where you are coming from, and why this seems to be such an emotive subject for you?

I bought my Sansamp on the recommendation of a bass player with many, many (about 35) years of bass playing experience; he told me that the Sansamp was the best pedal he had EVER bought (ne never gigs without it), for two reasons:

a. He could play through it straight into the PA without the need for a bass amp (although he did recommend using a monitor so you can hear what you are playing!!!), and...

b. By careful use of the Sansamp's settings, it can make a reasonable amp sound REALLY good, and certainly give a huge tone boost to even a not-so-good, underpowered amp.

Which, unless I'm mistaken, is exactly what ducatiman was trying to say.

I'm sure broadcaster has a valid point - if you don't NEED to enhance the tone of your amp, then... well, don't do it! Obviously in his case (and opinion) it doesn't work for HIM.

Personally, I think ducatiman has hit the nail right on the head:

Originally Posted by ducatiman

...depends on amp, eq, use of sansamp controls. used liberally, sansamp can do wonders for an otherwise marginal or even crap amp. agreed, used incorrectly you can get some rather distasteful tones...

Which would certainly seem to tie in with the opinion of many other experienced bass players.

And me? I'm just DELIGHTED with my Sansamp - it has indeed turned my very ordinary Peavey Basic 50 into a MUCH better sounding amp! Absolutely ZERO negative vibes from me!

[ducatiman]

broadcaster please offer your thoughts how a sansamp can be so detrimental in the chain of:

bass > sansamp > bassamp

but be so darn good in chain of:

bass > sansamp > mixer > PA *amp*


thanks, ducatiman

[broadcaster]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

broadcaster please offer your thoughts how a sansamp can be so detrimental in the chain of:

bass > sansamp > bassamp - [I]-for ME, bass amplifiers pre-amps have plenty enough color.[/I]

but be so darn good in chain of:

bass > sansamp > mixer > PA *amp* [I]-again for MYSELF, a pre is needed to overcome sterile harshness, whether it is an active basses pre or a external box like a BDDI.[/i]thanks, ducatiman

[i]your welcome :^)[/I]

[ducatiman]

you're dancin (you really didn't answer my question).....your original statement i take exception to (and being discussed here) was

"Muddies up the tone going into an amp though..."

and i replied..

" i disagree. thats a rather general statement which should be cleared up. depends on amp, eq, use of sansamp controls."


would you care to preface your quote with "for me" or "for myself" ?



and broadcaster....simmer down here, i was curious as to the nature of your apparant displeasure with the sansamp. no more, no less.


peace dude, ok? ................duc

[Bluesbob]

I was using the Sansamp BDDI to fatten up my tone with my Eden WT-400, I guess I was trying to "emulate" the punch and power of my SVT. I always used it through the effects loop with the "blend" knob set midway. It did a creditable job of warming up the "hi-fi" sound of the Eden, but I always used the DI on the back of the amp when going into the PA, the BDDI being a little too ambiguous as far as tone and feel when used as a DI. I think the settings that sound good for the amp don't necessarily sound as good when used for the DI. I haven't played anywhere small enough to use the Eden lately though, so I'm rockin' some real tube tone with the SVT. But the Sansamp BDDI is something I consider a part of my tool kit, and I'm sure I'll use it again.

[ducatiman]

blues bob....THANK YOU SIR !

[Billy Claire]

I bought one (since every bass player around here has one) and love it. If your amp ever went south, you could use this alone through FOH and monitors. It's sweet for recording demos too.

[broadcaster]

Originally Posted by ducatiman

you're dancin (you really didn't answer my question).....your original statement i take exception to (and being discussed here) was

"Muddies up the tone going into an amp though..."

and i replied..

" i disagree. thats a rather general statement which should be cleared up. depends on amp, eq, use of sansamp controls."


would you care to preface your quote with "for me" or "for myself" ?



and broadcaster....simmer down here, i was curious as to the nature of your apparant displeasure with the sansamp. no more, no less.


peace dude, ok? ................duc

The BDDI set at the SVT setting compresses the tone farther back in the mix, which is undesirable and something I do not need nor want when playing through my amps.

No offense taken, peace. : )

[tom grossheider]

I use mine direct to the house, big church big system. Sounds great, just leave it on the SVT setting, only tweak if needed.

[ducatiman]

for live gigs-

bass> sansamp bddi > crown power amp > 2x15 cab


i'm using my sansamp bddi (as a preamp) directly into a CROWN XLS402D power amp (bridged mono 1140 watts @ 4 ohms driving a hartke 2x15 sub bass cab with eminence cb15 speakers.

loud, deep, ballsy, clean clear power with a ton of headroom. OR i can "put some hair on it" tweaking the sansamp settings. i can adjust to different rooms easily as well.

no mud, distortion or unwanted tones (unless i screw up my settings)

as i stated earlier in this thread, i play with a very loud drummer and marshall amp guy. during louder songs they will easily bury you , NOT.....
this rig sounds pretty serious and depends very heavily on the sansamp , which SHINES and cuts right through. i LOVE this sansamp thing.

ps, using the effects chain of your bassamp, you're bypassing your preamp and using only the power section of your amp. i took it one step further using ONLY a power amp. others are doing this too, using a pre amp of choice.


---------------------ducatiman