Jazz vs P

[hekawi]

i've only just starting looking at basses....me being a guitar player who wants to learn bass. had about ten minutes to knock around at the GC saturday and plugged in both a fender jazz and a precision. not enough time to really note the differences, etc. plus it being the guitar center, it was hard to hear myself play among all the shredder boys flailing away on the pointy headed guitars.

so i thought i'd ask the experts here at the TDPRI Bass Place to give me the pros and cons of the Jazz & P basses.

note: i primarily play beatles and classic rock.

thanks in advance for your input

[4mal]

This is a pretty well covered topic in these parts but it is one that I've been thinking about the past couple of weeks.

There are obvious physical differences. 2 single coils the split P pickup. The offset waist of the J doesn't feel as comfortable as the more symetrical P body to some. In general P necks are wider and shallower than J necks although Fender is gradually moving to a set of commne profiles I believe.

Sonically the differences are interesting with each bass having somewhat unique attributes while covering much of the same territory.

YOU CAN USE EITHER OF THESE BASSES, IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE AND ACHIEVE SIMILAR RESULTS.

There it's been said. No inherent advantage to either but ther eare characteristics that lead me to pickup a J or a P depending on the setting.

The P has a really focused sound. An emphasis on the fundamental. Some people refer to this as 'low end' or thud or thump. There is more of it in a P than a J. You can get darned close with a J though. This emphasis on the fundamental makes the P a really goods choice when recording music where the bass line really propels the song. You can record big impact using relatively lkittle 'sonic' space. In other words it sit's in the mix easily and doesn't mess with other instruments around it much.

The J has more harmonic nuance. More ringing. It's a more full or a richer sound harmonically. Recording wise, you have to get rid of a lot of that to free up space for the kick, tom's low end of piano, etc ... Certainly can be done - there are huge number of tracks recorded on P's and J's. It just takes more effort to get there.

That attribute of the J makes it a really good choice for live performance in a minimalist setting. A guitar based rock trio, the J is inherently more interesting to listen to as there is more information to be heard.

You have to take the above with a large dose of 'all other things being equal'. The truly salient point here is that either a P or a J can get the job done almost irrespective of what the job is. The bass is only one element in the overall equation.

From a pickup standpoint - a P/J is an eminently useful tool for me. You really get the best of both worlds as it can be a P, or a J bridge and the combination of the pickups, in a well balanced set isn't far off a full J.

The one to pick as your first bass ? The one that feels best in your hand sitting and standing. For me it's the J neck. I swap back and forth between guitar and bass. I find that my hand likes the narrower bass neck when swapping.

If you can swing the dough, the Fender Highway 1's are really nice instruments. I've been up close and personal with a Highway 1 P for the last few days. It's not going to become part of my quiver - but the competition it lost out to is a MIA 62 RI which retails for 2x the cost of the Highway 1.

In the end the single biggest factor in my decision was - vintage small frets on the 62 RI vs the medium's on the Highway 1. I actually prefer the satin finish on the Highway 1's neck and it really enhances the tri-tone sunburst. The Highway 1 features one of the best Fender tri-tone bursts I've ever seen. It makes the glossy 62 RI look kinda cheap.

[kennl]

[QUOTE=4mal;816579]
The P has a really focused sound.
QUOTE]

The best description I've heard of the difference between P & J is
Precision Bass fundamental sits right with a kick drum
Jazz Bass sits around it

So you could make your choice based around the style of drummer you work with and how the kick drum is tuned.
Ken

[4mal]

[QUOTE=kennl;816599]

Originally Posted by 4mal

The P has a really focused sound.
QUOTE]

The best description I've heard of the difference between P & J is
Precision Bass fundamental sits right with a kick drum
Jazz Bass sits around it

So you could make your choice based around the style of drummer you work with and how the kick drum is tuned.
Ken

Interesting way to put it. I can definately see why someone would say that though.

[chet]

I like the 51 Precision Bass RI. It's kinda looks like a butterscotch Tele and I like where the pickup is situated. I'm almost tempted to sell my Standard P Bass and get the 51 RI instead.

[Dennis_UK]

No no, Chet. Have both. Seriously. I now have 3 variants of P. The Squier reviewed elsewhere here, a '51 RI, and a Standard MIM P. All great. All different. In a subtle way, of course, but there nonetheless.

[4mal]

Leo made all those changes in 57 for a reason... The 51 has an undeniable coolness factor about it. The 57 and subsequent generations are better instruments though. The 51, by all means, but as an addition to your 57 derivitive.

[Rhomco Guitars]

[4mal]

oh man... sea foam and matching head stock. That is an instant GAS attack...

Ok - what's the story on that one ? It's a top loader so probaly not custom shop so I'm thinking a very nicely done Franken. Maybe a MIJ not for export ? You want to spill the beans on that one. ? Inquiring minds need to know. That is just so sweet!

[Rhomco Guitars]

all the way. Just a refin I did on an old aftermarket body and one of my early P-Bass/Tele Bass neck conversions. It has a good vibe and played out well to boot. Another of my project guitars that has left the house to go live with someone else.
Fun project,
Rob (the other Rob)

[RevMike]

I played a Jazz as my mainstay for years. About 3 months ago, I got the 51 RI P. I don't think I'd ever want another bass, unless I found a nice cheap a short scale 6 string. My 51 looks, feels, sounds just like everything I ever wanted in a bass. The 51 and my upright, now represent my working bass arsenal. I also have a 5 string Squire P as a back-up too. Not a bad little bass either. It was a scratch & dent from MF, that I grabbed for about $175.

[4mal]

Originally Posted by rhomco

all the way. Just a refin I did on an old aftermarket body and one of my early P-Bass/Tele Bass neck conversions. It has a good vibe and played out well to boot. Another of my project guitars that has left the house to go live with someone else.
Fun project,
Rob (the other Rob)

I may have to ship you my trans white Precision special. ,mmmm Seafoam. That looks like really nice work.

[Rhomco Guitars]

Originally Posted by 4mal

I may have to ship you my trans white Precision special. ,mmmm Seafoam. That looks like really nice work.

Would be my pleasure! I only do genuine nitro cellulose lacquers the old fashioned way. In fact, I am old and fashioned
Rob

[slauson slim]

As to Ps and Js.....examples to listen to:

Jamerson and Carol Kaye played a P and the bass on Gladys night's "Midnight Train to Georgia" definitely on a P. Also Muscle Shoals rhythm section David Hood behind Clarence Carter, for example, and bass on Dusty Springfield's "Son of a Preacher Man".

As to how J's sound, there's Jaco - he's to a J what Jimi was to a strat, Noel Redding live w/ Jimi, and Joe Osborn - an early J w/ flats played w/ a pick - as in 5th Dimension's "Let the Sun Shine In" or "Windy" by the Association or "California Dreamin'" by the Mamas & Papas. Also, Earth Wind & Fire's bassist.

Sorry for the ancient references, but that's what I've got, being old fahioned.

[Tom P.]

Originally Posted by slauson slim

As to Ps and Js.....examples to listen to:
Also Muscle Shoals rhythm section David Hood behind Clarence Carter, for example, and bass on Dusty Springfield's "Son of a Preacher Man".

Not to be a picky pain in the patoot, but Tommy Cogbill played bass on "Son of a Preacher Man".

[Tim Armstrong]

Originally Posted by Tom P.

Not to be a picky pain in the patoot, but Tommy Cogbill played bass on "Son of a Preacher Man".

I was gonna say the same thing last night when I got in from my gig and saw that, but sleepiness won out!



Cheers, Tim

[broadcaster]

Don't forget John Paul Jones of Led Zep & Berry Oakley of the Allman Brothers Band both played Fender J's. Plenty of thump there.

Jazz basses sit very well in a band mix.

[slauson slim]

Be picky. Actually, that was phrased incorrectly. I know Hood didn't play bass on that, but it didn't come out right.

Didn't Oakley also play an early slab side P-bass?

[broadcaster]

"Didn't Oakley also play an early slab side P-bass?"

I know he played a Guild Starfire hollow body, before he started using Jazz basses. I never heard of him playing a P though.

[Tom P.]

Berry Oakley's "Tractor Bass" will forever be immortalized in the annals of bass lore, and on classic recordings like the Allman Brothers' Live at the Fillmore East. This hybrid instrument, cobbled together by Oakley and roadie, Joe Dan Petty, was a modified Jazz Bass with the neck pickup moved back and a Guild Starfire pickup put in its place. Many a story circulated about how the band tolerated the "Frankenstein" instrument-which looked more like a farm implement than a musical instrument-but none could deny the amazing sound it produced in Berry's hands.

http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/mo...order=0&sid=91

[Tim Armstrong]

Wait a minute...

...that's kinda like putting a Dark Star in a P-Bass, isn't it?

Let's hope Dave doesn't read this thread!!!



(just kidding, Dave!)

Cheers, Tim

[franchelB]

"4mal" pretty much "nailed it on the head"! I really can't add anything else other than personally, I prefer the P bass. It just "feels" like a bass is supposed to feel, whereas he J bass feels more like a guitar...

I'm very interested in picking up the Pete Wentz signature Squier P bass...a split pickup, one volume control, what more do you need?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...ass?sku=515076

[pbenn]

A studio owner told me Jazz Basses have more of a noise-floor problem than Precisions, because the two halves of the P pickup are inherently wired humbucking all the time, rather than through the Jazz's two volume controls.

An ancient interview with a 60's record producer I read (somewhere) stated they used to specify Jazzes for pop records and Precisions for soul records.

Peter