Broke out the big rig tonight...

[Tim Armstrong]

We had a gig tonight at the biggest local venue, it was a fundraiser for the local hospital (we absolutely can't get booked into this venue except for things like this, apparently we're too "old" or something... ), and since I already knew that the sound was gonna be awful (terrible acoustics and insufficiently trained sound staff) and we wouldn't be able to hear my usual small rig, I doubled up.

I ran my bass into my Yamaha Magic Stomp (set for clean blackface model), which split my signal into two ouputs, one going to my PowerBlock which fed my 8-ohm single 15 Guild cab, the other going to my SWR Workingman's 2004 head, feeding my 4-ohm 2x10 Steel Sound cab. I used the DI out from the SWR to go to the board.

It worked great, looked more like a bass rig than my stuff usually does, and it was loud enough so that the whole band (guitar, bass, drums, tenor sax, baritone sax) could hear it.

Plus it was kinda cool to use ALL of my gear at the same time!

Cheers, Tim

[4mal]

It's kinda fun to get out with the 'monster rig' on occaision, eh ?

[Chris S.]

Yeah, my "full" rig is an original SWR SM400, an original SWR GOLIATH I 4x10 cabinet (it even says "'Manufactured Exclusively for SWR Engineering by Eden Electronics Inc." on the back ), plus a Workingman's 15 cabinet.

It's an impressive looking stack, well over 5' tall, and it sounds amazing (IMO, anyway). But I hardly ever play anywhere big enough to use the entire thing.

My Workingman's 15 combo and my little Workingman's 10 combo see a lot more "battle action." ;-) CS

[chet]

I'd just like to find a Bass combo that I could take to any gig and plug in. Prolly doesn't exist, eh?

This thread reminds me of the guitar player who came to one of our jams and made about five trips to his vehicle. He had a tremendous stack of gear in the middle of a little studio and turned it up so loud my ears hurt. Maybe it didn't bother some of the other guys (hearing loss?). He played OK but was way too loud (obnoxious). After a couple of incidents like that I quit trying to hold open jams.

[broadcaster]

Tim, sounds like you had the place shaken.

Yea, I am looking forward to the outdoor events we are doing this year.

[Tim Armstrong]

Originally Posted by chet

I'd just like to find a Bass combo that I could take to any gig and plug in. Prolly doesn't exist, eh?

Workingman's 15, just like Chris S uses.



They're only available used anymore, but as he's pointed out, for pretty darn good prices!

Cheers, Tim

[4mal]

That's kinda light weight for a go every where ... 150 watts and a 15 isn't going to hack it most of the places I play. An Eden Metro, maybe... Workingman's 15 ... nope. For me the problem with combo's is that the ones that are powerful enough to cover a medium to large stage weigh in at close to 100 lbs. I'm better off with separates and a hand truck. YMMV

[Tim Armstrong]

Well, as we both know, friends can disagree!

I've been playing over a hundred gigs a year for the last four years with smaller rigs. I started with a 200-watt/1x12 Genz Benz combo, moved to a 50-watt tube Traynor YBA-1 head/1x15 cab, then to an SWR Workingman's 2004 (200 watts into 4 ohms) head into a 2x10 cab, and then finally to a 150-watt PowerBlock into my 1x15 cab (I think I'm going to get a pair of 16-ohm tens for the 2x10 cab, though, I like the definition better). With each rig, I've run a line to the PA system to augment my volume.

With each of these rigs, and a guitarist using a DRRI or VOX AD30VT and a drummer who can play loud or soft depending on the situation, I've had no problems being heard in the mix at an appropriate volume. There's only one place around here where I needed more to be heard onstage (as mentioned in my "big rig" post), and to tell you the truth, in the smaller venues I probably don't even need the lineout to the PA.

For Chet's purposes, I think a WM 15 would be a great home/basement jam/small barroom rig, and if he finds himself in a place than needs more, a nice XLR cable to the PA would provide that...

Cheers, Tim

[t_ross33]

We use a Behringer Ultra DI-10. It allows our bass player to split, or "link" the signal: one to his Peavey bass combo, one DI/balanced to the board.

For smaller gigs, we have to convince him to leave the combo at home and pipe straight to the board. That way we can control his volume, and he likes to play LOUD!

[Paul in Colorado]

Sounds like a cool gig, Tim!

I had my big rig out last night. I had a 1 X 15" & a 1 X 12" powered by an Ashly preamp and a Carver stereo power amp. Since I also play guitar in that band, and the stage was smallish, I had my Mesa Studio .22+ sitting on top of that. I think it scared the lady who hired us as she told us we had to be quiet enough that people could do business at their booths (outdoor arts festival kind of thing). We faced the speakers away from the booths so we were loud enough with no problems (but not too loud, we didn't mic the drums other then the kick). I have to admit, the big stack looked cool!

[cradlehall]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

We had a gig tonight at the biggest local venue, it was a fundraiser for the local hospital (we absolutely can't get booked into this venue except for things like this, apparently we're too "old" or something... ).......

Imagine being deemed "too old". What a shame!
Tim, you must be the oldest rocker in town!

[chet]

I looked at a SWR Workingman's 15 today. They wanted $425.00 for it and I had a salesman plug in and play it. Whenever he hit a certain note the speaker buzzed or rattled. I passed on that one.

[4mal]

around these parts, the going rate for a WM 15 would around $300 in the used market.

[4mal]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

Well, as we both know, friends can disagree!

no doubt about that !

One of the wonderful things about this forum is the level of civility. After watching events unfold at another place the last month, that civility is a prized commodity! [insert Ghandi smiley icon here]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I've been playing over a hundred gigs a year for the last four years with smaller rigs. I started with a 200-watt/1x12 Genz Benz combo, moved to a 50-watt tube Traynor YBA-1 head/1x15 cab, then to an SWR Workingman's 2004 (200 watts into 4 ohms) head into a 2x10 cab, and then finally to a 150-watt PowerBlock into my 1x15 cab (I think I'm going to get a pair of 16-ohm tens for the 2x10 cab, though, I like the definition better). With each rig, I've run a line to the PA system to augment my volume.

With each of these rigs, and a guitarist using a DRRI or VOX AD30VT and a drummer who can play loud or soft depending on the situation, I've had no problems being heard in the mix at an appropriate volume. There's only one place around here where I needed more to be heard onstage (as mentioned in my "big rig" post), and to tell you the truth, in the smaller venues I probably don't even need the lineout to the PA.

For Chet's purposes, I think a WM 15 would be a great home/basement jam/small barroom rig, and if he finds himself in a place than needs more, a nice XLR cable to the PA would provide that...

Cheers, Tim

It was the any gig part of Chet's remark that caught my attention. That and the XLR out to the PA. The majority of the places I play, the PA is mine and I'm not geared to take bass or drums. I'm running JBL EON 15's, the old grey ones for vocals. I like 'em for that but I don't trust 'em for bass & drum's. I probably need to add a sub but - It all needs to fit into a Subaru Outback... and I'm full up as it is.

For me I think I would feel constrained with a WM 15 in most of the rooms I play. I've done a couple of recent experiments in rig building. I tried 3 different 200 to 300 watt RMS into 4 ohm amps. I've run them through my 3 different cab's ... and I can get to comforable small room gig volume with them wide open.

I have a theory on bass rigs. It is that pushing a bass rig to it's limit's for sustained periods of time provides the smell of burning plastic. Generally that of a credit card as replacement parts are ordered.

So I gear up a level higher than I need in the hopes that I don't experience that smell ... for me, entry level is 400 to 500 clean watts and a 2x10 - hopefully running very cool just loafing along.

[Rhomco Guitars]

"I have a theory on bass rigs. It is that pushing a bass rig to it's limit's for sustained period of time provides the smell of burning plastic. Generally that of a credit card as replacement parts are ordered.

So I gear up a level higher than I need in the hopes that I don't experience that smell ... for me, entry level is 400 to 500 clean watts and a 2x10 - hopefully running very cool just loafing along."

Now that folks.....is nuthin but wisdom in print!
Rob

[4mal]

sadly the field research involved a sample population of smoldering parts along the way... wisdom ? more like 20/20 hindsight!

[Tim Armstrong]

I actually agree with pretty much everything you wrote, and I think that having headroom on reserve is a beautiful thing! In fact, I expect I'll eventually upgrade to something more robust...

I guess the words "any gig" would be a red flag. I THINK that Chet'd be just fine with a 200-watt combo for most of the situations that a guitar player who owned a bass would find himself in... jams, small clubs, practicing at home, etc. But certainly, there are a fair number of gig situations, particularly with aggressive drummers, where it might be less than optimal...



Cheers, Tim

[bluesfordan]

I must be jaded. I consider an early '70s Ampeg SVT with an 8x10 AND 2x15 or 1x18 folded horn a 'big rig'.

Or even better two SVTs, one for each of the two cabs.

"I feel the earh move under my feet"

[Tim Armstrong]

Originally Posted by bluesfordan

I must be jaded. I consider an early '70s Ampeg SVT with an 8x10 AND 2x15 or 1x18 folded horn a 'big rig'.

Or even better two SVTs, one for each of the two cabs.

"I feel the earh move under my feet"

Which is why the very first thing in my post was this:

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

Cheers, Tim

[chet]

I had a guy at a Guitar Center demo and amp with a separate 15 inch cab Sunday. He turned it up and we could feel the air moving around our legs.

[4mal]

I was a long time SVT user. I borrowed a cab one night for a showcase we were doing. Kinda up the coolness factor in the looks department. (OK so I was younger, stupid and kinda shallow - sue me ... or sue me as I was at 21 anyway...) I couldn't actually run the second cab - it was off the charts too loud - and we were a loud little band ...

So - the air moving around your legs, eh ? I can describe standing in front of the old 8x10 as being hit in the back by a well placed soccer ball ... only louder.

Oddly enough I didn't need chiropractic care in those days as I was having my spine sonically aligned 5 nights a week... (more likely it's the increase in waistline from 32 to 38 that is responsible but in an effort to duck personal responsibility, I'm quite sure I need another SVT - and a roadie to move it...and a van to move it in...)

[Bluesbob]

I was A-B'ing amps once in the late '90's and I tried an SWR Basic Black 1X15 against the WM 15 and a Fender 100 watt single 15. It was no contest, not only against the Fender but also against the WM 15. Low pitch definition and the ability to handle the open E string were way superior on the Basic Black using my '71 Jazz. They supposedly only put out 120 watts (160 with an extension speaker like the Son of Bertha), but it's got to be the loudest 120 watts on the planet. The SWR BB also goes for about $300 on the used market (like the WM) and I think it is a better buy than anything else that sells for that amount. It's got a DI, effects loop, tube pre-amp, good quality speaker, ext. spk. out and really nice tone. And relatively light, too. If you want a small-to-medium-size-club combo they're a great deal, as long as no major repair work is required. Stack it with another equally efficient 1X15 or 2X10 and it can fill an outdoor stage. I'm not selling mine.

[ducatiman]

+1 again, blues bob.

scored one o' these (mines a 1992 "BASSIC black" ) the 1st year, they tagged them spelled with 2 S's. some sort of litigation ensued, they changed to "BASIC black" thereafter.

enough history, bob, i totally concur. this thing blows my WM15 into the water. great note definition, tone coloration, overall balance and clarity.
smooth as butta! i've gigged small clubs (also from LI, bob) with my 8 ohm WM15 extension speaker and yeah, its amazing loud! 160 watts? THATS all? i got mine on CRAIGLIST a few months back for $225. yup 225. and no, i'm NOT selling mine, neither. kind of weird design, the amp section is built on a L bracket and unscrews from the cab. i replaced the 2 main power caps (diy) in view of the age of mine. nothin broke, just some pm. later this summer, i'm gonna send it off to a tech for general check up and bias. again, i want to treat this amp good, its a keeper.

regards...........................duc