Fronting punk band and maybe playing Baritone guitar, any suggestions?

[63dot]

I don't know much about Baritone guitar other that it is usually tuned down to a low B, and sometimes to low B-flat or A. I know the Fender Bass VI never caught on much in an E to E tuning and players quickly learned of its B to B uses as more appropriate and useful.

Has anybody ever used this instead of bass outside of the few examples of some Beatles tunes or other 60s/70s songs? I only know of one local punk band that did this and the Baritone guitar player went through bass amp. I will use either JCM 800, 900, or 2000 Marshall in clean and crunch mode (sometimes).

Is that OK or will I fry something since I have never heard of a standard amp for baritone guitar or the "new" Fender Bass VI (alternately called by Fender as the Jaguar baritone re-issue guitar).

[Tim Armstrong]

I'd probably just get a 4x10 bass cab to use with your Marshalls. That way, you won't have to worry too much about blowing speakers!

I was just thinking a bit about the differences between bass guitar and regular guitar the other day, as I was playing a bunch of notes that were more than an octave above my low E (which means, of course, that they were notes you could find on a guitar).

While they WERE notes you could play on a regular guitar, they sounded different because they were being played on much thicker strings (and, depending on where I played them, on different string lengths). Having tried out baritone and Bass VI guitars before, I know that the same thing happens in reverse, you get the lower notes, but they don't have anything resembling the same tone. I found them cool and interesting, but not "girthy" enough to actually REPLACE a bass, at least for the stuff I play...

Tim

[63dot]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I'd probably just get a 4x10 bass cab to use with your Marshalls. That way, you won't have to worry too much about blowing speakers!

I was just thinking a bit about the differences between bass guitar and regular guitar the other day, as I was playing a bunch of notes that were more than an octave above my low E (which means, of course, that they were notes you could find on a guitar).

While they WERE notes you could play on a regular guitar, they sounded different because they were being played on much thicker strings (and, depending on where I played them, on different string lengths). Having tried out baritone and Bass VI guitars before, I know that the same thing happens in reverse, you get the lower notes, but they don't have anything resembling the same tone. I found them cool and interesting, but not "girthy" enough to actually REPLACE a bass, at least for the stuff I play...

Tim

If I was playing funk, like I did briefly as a bassist, nothing short of a regular bass would do.

But for punk rock, I hope I can get away with baritone/bass VI. I would like to keep the band a three piece but my primary duties would include singing and rhythm guitar (as most punk does not go deeply into lead guitar) or singing and baritone guitar/bass VI playing. Somehow, singing and bass guitar is hard for me to do, as is singing and playing the drums at those fast tempos.

[Kestrel]

As far as I know the Fender Bass VI is a different animal from a baritone guitar. A friend of mine owns a Schecter Hellcat VI (basically a working man's version of the Fender Bass VI) and it's a bit different than the Fender Baritone Special. The Hellcat VI is tuned just like the Bass VI, an octave lower: EADGBE and it's got heavier string gauges than a baritone. A bit of a longer neck than a baritone too. I've played around with it (through a bass amp) and I think it's ideal if you want to play melodic lead bass lines like that of Peter Hook from Joy Division/New Order or Robert Smith from The Cure. It's not like a contemporary 6-string bass, but it's not really a baritone guitar either. You can play it somewhat like a guitar, but in my opinion it's still very much a bass. I like to think of it as a bass for guitarists who wish basses were more like guitars.

[63dot]

Originally Posted by Kestrel

As far as I know the Fender Bass VI is a different animal from a baritone guitar. A friend of mine owns a Schecter Hellcat VI (basically a working man's version of the Fender Bass VI) and it's a bit different than the Fender Baritone Special. The Hellcat VI is tuned just like the Bass VI, an octave lower: EADGBE and it's got heavier string gauges than a baritone. A bit of a longer neck than a baritone too. I've played around with it (through a bass amp) and I think it's ideal if you want to play melodic lead bass lines like that of Peter Hook from Joy Division/New Order or Robert Smith from The Cure. It's not like a contemporary 6-string bass, but it's not really a baritone guitar either. You can play it somewhat like a guitar, but in my opinion it's still very much a bass. I like to think of it as a bass for guitarists who wish basses were more like guitars.

I know the baritone guitar is between a 26.5" and a 27" inch scale length, with one model I know of at 28" inches.

A bass VI is 29"+ but not quite 30" inches. Those differences do make a difference. I wonder what the Hellcat lists at in scale length?

EDIT: So the Hellcat, at least according to Schecter is 30" inches. Problem is that with E to E, the sound does not cut through with enough defined bottom end, thus the reason Fender Bass VI players did the B to B, B flat to B flat, or A to A thing for a better sound.

Perhaps they (Schecter) did something with the pups to give it more bounce and clarity, short of making it a bigger 32" inch scale mini-bass.

[JohnnyCrash]

Baritone guitar as a "bass" register instrument can be awesome in a punk setting.

There are so many bass fuzz tones from the '60s till now... I'm sure you can find what fits the band, the music style, and each song - clean or dirty.

Don't worry about drawing outside the lines. Don't worry about genres. You will be the glue between the drums and guitar, so just do what sounds right in that capacity.

Baritone + punk = unique... this sounds cool. Something I wish I could sign on for...

[63dot]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

Baritone guitar as a "bass" register instrument can be awesome in a punk setting.

There are so many bass fuzz tones from the '60s till now... I'm sure you can find what fits the band, the music style, and each song - clean or dirty.

Don't worry about drawing outside the lines. Don't worry about genres. You will be the glue between the drums and guitar, so just do what sounds right in that capacity.

Baritone + punk = unique... this sounds cool. Something I wish I could sign on for...

I am definitely excited since it's new. I did wish I had the talent, or practice, to be able to sing fast and play full scale bass, but I just don't know how those thrash punk bands do it with a singer/bassist. When I sang for this band in the mid-90s, all I had to do was jump around a lot and just sing which was a ton of fun.

[Kestrel]

Originally Posted by 63dot

I know the baritone guitar is between a 26.5" and a 27" inch scale length, with one model I know of at 28" inches.

A bass VI is 29"+ but not quite 30" inches. Those differences do make a difference. I wonder what the Hellcat lists at in scale length?

EDIT: So the Hellcat, at least according to Schecter is 30" inches. Problem is that with E to E, the sound does not cut through with enough defined bottom end, thus the reason Fender Bass VI players did the B to B, B flat to B flat, or A to A thing for a better sound.

Perhaps they (Schecter) did something with the pups to give it more bounce and clarity, short of making it a bigger 32" inch scale mini-bass.

I actually ended up getting a Schecter Hellcat VI for myself over the weekend. It's a very fascinating instrument. The Hellcat VI, like the Fender Bass VI is nothing like like a contemporary 6 string bass so it's a bit tricky to categorize it as it's technically not a baritone guitar, although it can sound like one, yet it can also function very well as a bass. I find that it does have plenty of low end, but being a guitarist who later took up playing bass, I play it as if it were a guitar that just happens to be tuned at a lower octave. Like I stated in a previous post, this is the perfect bass for guitarists who wish basses were more like guitars. Sounds quite lovely while playing arpeggios through chorus and delay effects. Lots of different tone options. For fans of The Cure, this thing nails that signature Robert Smith sound.

[Maggot]

Sleater-Kinney is a band where one of the guitar players (at least early on) played a regular guitar, tuned to C# with heavy strings, through a Showman-style amp.

I don't know how to tune a Baritone, but I concur that it would work great for punk. It seems like a great compromise in a 3-piece between having two guitars, no bass (which always sounded awkward to me, although it always makes the kick drum stand out), and the regular power trio format (which sometimes lacks body).

[fidopunk]

I actually saw Dinosaur Jr. recently-- A three piece with Lou Barlow was the opening act. He played much of his solo stuff on two different baritones (one Gretsch and one Danelectro). The other guy played a tele (and the remaining fella was on drums, of course). He biamped his signal so he could get some higher guitar tones and some lower BASS LIKE notes... I say that with emphasis because in no way did it sound like a bass was on stage-- and that was even with biamping...
So I don't know, YMMV, but I don't think it's an effective strategy.