Silverface bassman head

[ccrnnr9]

The search for a good bass combo continues and has led to a nice local shop that has a Fender bassman (silverface) head on consignment. The tag price is $400 but the shop owner told me the owner will take $300 for it if that's what it takes to move it out the door. I need to go back and get some more information on the head but I believe it is an 80watt model. It is in great condition and from what I could from a brief run, prime working condition as well. Questions:

1. Are these reliable heads?
2. Will I run into power issues? I had set 200watts as the minimum for myself for a solid state amp however I didn't know if the tube rule for guitar transfers over to bass.

Any other feedback on these heads is appreciated. A search turned up pretty positive feedback both here and at TB. As far as a cab goes, he has a mid 90's ampeg 4x10 for $200 or I may use some MF credit to go towards an Ashdown or GK 4x10.
~Nick

[Tim Armstrong]

Buy it!

I gigged with a 50-watt Bassman head, and later a 50-watt Traynor YBA-1 head, and I'd say they're about as functionally loud as the 200-watt solid state SWR head I used for a while. And the tone is unbeatable, at least as far as my tastes go!

The 70-watt version is the last of the SF amps, so-called Ultralinear. That just means it's slightly louder and cleaner than the 50-watt version, which means it's probably better for bass! Guitarists complained about the UL amps because they were too clean...

Tim

[marshman]

I'd snag it up...if nothing else, it's the last of the hand-wired Fenders, and should at the very least be easily serviced to bring it up to spec.

70 watts is a bit on the low side, but a good cab can make all the difference in the world. And as usual, if you don't bond with it, it will still be worth what you pay for it in 6 months if you decide to try a different amp.

[fidopunk]

Depends on what you're up against; I gig in a band where one guitarist uses a 100 watt Marshall Lead (Tube) and the other uses a 100 watt Mesa Dual Rec (Tube, of course).
I use a 225 watt tube head for bass and it keeps up fine-- but I'd be super scared of anything beneath it. (Yes, it weighs a ton)
For most people in most situations, 80 watt is probably enough firepower.

[reverberocket2]

A while back I played bass in a band with a SF Bassman 50 head and a 2x15 cab. Always had enough stage volume to hear myself and the PA took care of the rest.

Like fidopunk said - it all depends on what the guitarist(s) are using and how heavy your drummer hits

[Paul in Colorado]

John Kahn, who played with Mike Bloomfield and Jerry Garcia, used a Bassman head with a preamp out added that went into an outboard power amp (McIntosh 2300) and into a 2 X 15" cab. He had no problem keeping up. You might consider having a tech mod your amp to just use the preamp, or use the internal power section to run a small cab, and use the preamp out to run a bigger power amp and a larger cab. Those old tube Fender bass amps can sound real good when they're serviced and running right.

[tom grossheider]

Depending on what your band situation is, I've found that Fender tube bass amps weren't very good for bass but excellent for guitar (SF Bassmans need to be re-worked to sound good). It will ok on the power end, if you need more look for an old Showman head, lots more power and they sound pretty good for bass.

[ccrnnr9]

I am going to go check the head out tomorrow and possibly make a decision. He offered to let me in before store close or store opening so I could crank to amp up and hear it in person. I am interested in hearing the tones I can get with this thing. I assume it is the 70watt version that you speak of Tim because I know it was more than 50watts (I had 80 in mind).

My biggest reason for hesitation is that I am not currently in a band but am searching for a bass rig that will allow me to play with others. For that reason I don't know how much head room I will need in order to "keep up". It sounds like this would at least put me in some sort of safe region though.
~Nick

[Ben Harmless]

As far as reliability, I know a dude who's been gigging with a Bassman 100 for years. It has mismatched tubes, and various other little problems, and has never quit.

I keep telling him to fix it up, but he's one of those people...

Plus, it actually sounds really cool broken.

[4mal]

For my uses, it's really not a great bass amp for anything other than low volume rehearsal and recording - maybe - having said that, if I stumbled on a decent Bassman 50 at $300 I would take a long look at it and probably I'd buy it... It would never see the light of day in my bass rig outside the studio however ...

[martini]

$300? If you don't buy it, I will!

[Paul in Colorado]

I was in a band in the '80's where our bass player had a Bassman head, a Peavey cab with a 15" and a Rickenbacker Bass. I never had trouble hearing him and his tone was good. I guess it depends on your drummer.

[ccrnnr9]

Well I got the store owner to open up the shop for me this morning and got to play it cranked for about 10minutes. It sounds pretty good although there is some hum. The problem is that for the time being I won't know if it has enough head room until I get out and play with some folks. I do think that it is a safe buy since for $300 I can resell it for the same or more down the road I think. It is in pretty good condition. Also he has an Ampeg B410 cab for $280 that I think I will pick up with it.
~Nick

[Tim Armstrong]

I played gigs as a bassist with a 50-watt Bassman head into a single 15 cab back in the early 90s, using a direct box to send a signal to the PA for the bigger places. We played kinda punky alt-country, and it worked just fine for me. A year or two later, I was using the same rig as a guitar amp and it worked GREAT for that!

Tim

[ccrnnr9]

I am torn. I also found an Ampeg SVT 150 head for $100 less here locally as well. The bassman did sound good though. I am kinda torn at this point.
~Nick

[wnorcott]

I had a 1973 Bassman 100 and it sounded great for bass. Really excellent tone. I wish I still had that amp, but the head got stolen in 1977. I still have the 4x12 cabinet.

And buy the way that was 100 watts RMS and was silver face.

Bill

Originally Posted by tom grossheider

Depending on what your band situation is, I've found that Fender tube bass amps weren't very good for bass but excellent for guitar (SF Bassmans need to be re-worked to sound good). It will ok on the power end, if you need more look for an old Showman head, lots more power and they sound pretty good for bass.

[boss302bass]

Tim it would be a great investment, even if you end up playing a loud outfit...being the 50 watt head it probably wouldn't have enough headroom up against a hardhitting drummer and a Marshall wielding guitarist, but for more mellow acts, you'd be ok...
I have the 135 Bassman and 4x12 which easily keeps up with two 50 watt tube guitarists and a real loud drummer...if you ever come across one of them...well...
And now I have my 400PS head...running into the 4x12 cab but I have swapped out the original drivers for two pairs of Eminence 2012's...extra jack for the second pair means I can run 2 of the 3 400PS outputs. You can now hear how fingerprints sound rubbing on strings!(slight exaggeration, but the fundamental and subharmonic range of this old amp has to be heard to be believed...it's like your old Bassman but tripled in sweetness and sensitivity..).
But - I digress - a 50 watt Bassman will be a great thing to have around, and you can mod them to get more grunt outta them if you have a Fender-savvy tech in your home-town. Your new bass will love you for it!

[ccrnnr9]

Ya and just for clarification it is the 70watt version so it will give a bit more clean headroom. When I tried the thing out I couldn't get it to break up at all with the gain cranked and master at around 8 on a 10 point scale.
~Nick

[Tim Armstrong]

There's a Bassman 135 head sitting on consignment in my local shop. I haven't asked the price, because I don't want, need, nor can afford another amp. But it sure is calling to me!

Tim

[boss302bass]

Go for it Nick! Go for it Tim! Rock and Roll!

[T Prior]

I believe after checking the Fender amp reference, if the panel just says "Bassman" it is a 50 watt rated amp. Each of the other models that are rated at higher outputs have a different name, : aka Bassman 70 , Bassman 135 etc...

If the amp is calling you, and you can get it for $300, go get it.

May I ask, those guitar guys mentioned above playing thru 100W Marshalls, are they full bore all the time ?

t

[fidopunk]

The lead guitarist in my band (using the Marshall Lead 1960) has his cranked. He's running through the clean channel, but he's just got it cranked for drive- it's the only driven sound he really likes. I must say, it sounds great.
Our rhythm guitarist's Mesa's got a bit more oomph, but it's set to match the Marshall. I haven't really taken the time to get a look at it, but I'd say he's definitely pushing the limits of what it's rated.
If you're really curious, I can take a look this week.
Personally, I use an EQ pedal with a mid-hump and a touch of high end and also slightly boosted on overall output. On my head, I'm using about 4-6 of pre-amp gain on the drive channel (out of 10, depending on if I'm using an active or passive bass). All my EQ on the head is set flat (but on 7 or so for a total volume gain because it's an active EQ system), and my master volume is set on about 7 out of 10. The result is I get a lot of warm/abrasive/punishing tube distortion. By itself, the bass sounds like a monster and in the mix, it's tremendous.
This is why I'm scared of anything beneath my 225 watt tube head.
But I think if I was in any other band, I could get away with a lot less; and my back would thank me for it.

[tom grossheider]

Originally Posted by wnorcott

I had a 1973 Bassman 100 and it sounded great for bass. Really excellent tone. I wish I still had that amp, but the head got stolen in 1977. I still have the 4x12 cabinet.

And buy the way that was 100 watts RMS and was silver face.

Bill

To clarify I was referring to the 60's and early 70s 50 watt Bassman heads. The later ultra-linear 100 and 135 watt Fenders were a totally different animal.

[ccrnnr9]

Went back to the shop and played through the amp again today for about half an hour as I had some free time after work where I wouldn't be rushed and could mess around with the controls. I play with a MIM standard p-bass and the tones are nothing short of bliss if you ask me. I played through a used Ampeg B-series 4x10 cab which I am also thinking of getting with the head. I can get the two for $550 (I think).

That being said, my initial thoughts were incorrect. It is a late 70's or possibly early 80's Blackface head. I couldn't get a serial# but the cab says "Fender Bassman 70" and on the back "made in USA" is stamped in a couple places. It is 70watts at 4ohms minimum and looks to be in very good condition. It has two 6L6's as well as 4 other smaller tubes (I believe one was a 12ax7 but it was hard to read them without taking off some of the encasing).

I don't know if this changes the general consensus on whether I should get it but it sure does sound good. I am leaning towards doing it more and more each day.
~Nick

[Tim Armstrong]

Nick, Fender went back to a black faceplate for the last few years (1980-83) of the "silverface" era amps. That's a so-called ultra-linear amp, a little louder and cleaner than the 50-watt head that preceded it.

I again say: Buy it!

Tim

[ccrnnr9]

Interesting. Thanks for the lead Tim! I googled and wikipedia'd everything I could find on these amps and thought it strange that all the "era charts" had the bassman 70 listed as a silverface from 1977-1983ish yet this one I was looking at was the blackface look.

Is there anything I should be looking for that would throw up red flags in terms of something wrong with it. I have good but new relationship with the shop owner and the amp is a consignment for $400 but he said the seller would settle for $300. He claims he hasn't torn it down to do a check up on it but everything seems to work well. It sounds superb in all 4 inputs through the Ampeg B-series 4x10 cab he currently has it matched with. I think I'll be hard pressed to find a better tone in the price range I am at.
~Nick

[Tim Armstrong]

I'd listen for humming noises, motorboating noises, and static noises, and I'd also check to see if it's getting particularly hot or making burning smells. Also, does it get loud or just dirty sounding...

From your description so far, sounds like a keeper to me!

Tim

[Flashback]

I use a 100 watt silverface into a 4x10 and 2x12 cab setup.

Punch and GROWL for days.

check out some clips of one...

http://www.box.net/shared/p6fmvsqh8c (full mix)

GET SOME!

[ccrnnr9]

Well I found a 100w Silverface for sale for $400 ($100 more). Trying to decide what is the better bang for my buck. It is all original (minus a new cord) and appears to be in awesome shape.

When I go inspect it tonight is there anything I should look at in particular?
~Nick

[wrk2321]

I picked up a bassman 100 silverface for $200.00.The person who had it said the guy before him had modified it but we don't know what he was trying to do.They took out the master volume control and put an input in.You get a very faint sound out of it.The head still works great with a bass or guitar in the other channels.

[Bluesbob]

Originally Posted by wrk2321

They took out the master volume control and put an input in.You get a very faint sound out of it.

Maybe it's a line-out? Send it to a big power amp, but keep the sound of the Bassman? Strictly speculation, but IMHO that would be a useful mod.

[4mal]

If you get a real faint sound oout of it with a guitar/bass pluggged in I'd say it's a line input to the power amp. Someone probbaly wanted to try some other pre-amp/gain stage with a tube back end.

A tech an I schemed out an on board jensen transformer based DI for use the BF Bassman of my Avatar. He would implementit it in a box to be hung from exsiting screw holes in the chassis so no physical mods. We were going to re-route the normal Input 1 to position 2 and then use the hole for Input 1 as the DI out, TRS format.

He would tap just prior to the power section and essentially you'd have the front end signal. I'm not sure that running a palmer or another good speaker level DI wouldn't be as good. We never actually did the mod...

You know, on revisiting this thread I would have to say that if I stumbled on a decent Bassman example of the 50 watt variety today, I'd snap it up. Might be just the thing for me in my acoustic support role... Nothing else has quite the same vibe... I would also have to find the old sealed 2x12 to go with though, and an RE-20 to mic it with ... uh, think I'll pass...

[BuddyLee]

I just came across a 67 Bassman Head all original for $400 O.B.O.

I don't need a new amp but this one is hard to resist.

[4mal]

The economy being what it is, thats probably about right. I sold my last at around $600 IIRC - that was a few years back.

[Tim Armstrong]

Originally Posted by BuddyLee

I just came across a 67 Bassman Head all original for $400 O.B.O.

I don't need a new amp but this one is hard to resist.

I'd buy it! They aren't making many 1967 Bassman amps anymore.

Not only that, but I reckon any NEW hand-wired tube amp that sounds as good as a BF Fender would cost $1500 easy...

Tim

[bobbybigmac]

I concur with Tim. Buy it before I do.
I've been looking for an original Bassman for a few years now but they're hard to find unmodified.
Guitarist's who often mod them with a preamp volume.

[Maggot]

I say go for it - the original black face Bassmen were a little weak for modern bass applications, but I've used a Bassman 10 (70-watt silver face combo with 4 -10 speakers) in a rock band with no complications.

[wrk2321]

Thanks for the feedback on the bassman 100 head guys. I think I may have it restored in the future. I went to the local music store and found an old beat up ampeg 410 cab for 136.00 and when i play the head through it the sound is awsome. Very rich and clear.