Guitar player with questions...Fret vs Fretless? Steinberge

RTod · May 4th, 2003, 10:08 PM

I dont play bass, but I was wondering, what does fretles vs frets do for the sound you get from your bass? And I saw some very inexpensive Steinbergers over at Music o, they got great reviews on H.C. But sometimes that page is tough to judge from....any opinions on these?

Bob Rogers · May 5th, 2003, 09:09 AM

Fretted basses generally have a cleaner tone, more sustain, and (unless you are especially good) more precise intonation. Fretless have a faster decay and a buzzier "mwaah" sound - like an upright bass

Gene Machine · May 5th, 2003, 07:08 PM

Fretless basses sound great. if you can listen to some weather report with Jaco, you can get an idea about the tone. BUt, they will require some work to get the intonation right. If you get one with fret lines, it will be a bit easier, but still you have to be bang on.

If this is a first bass as a diversion from the guitar, it's probably best to go with frets.

g.

feojack · May 5th, 2003, 11:48 PM

At least for me it depends on what I'm playing. To my ears, it differences are really subtle. The differences for me come in where I'm playing on the neck. At the bottom end, fretless isn't too much different. If I'm going to the top end a lot, I sort of like the frets being there. Either way, it'll sure make you use your ears more, which is good for me. It boils down to six one way, half a dozen the other.
Another thing I enjoy on fretless, is if I have a string go out of tune, I can play it sharp or flat, depending, to balance it out til I can grab a tuner.
PLUS ~ If you've ever tried to learn tunes from old records, (before the wonderful age of electronic tuners), it's easier for me to follow the tune on fretless & then transpose it to whatever key I'll be using on the fretted.
Cheerio, Y'all :-)

maxvintage · May 7th, 2003, 09:30 AM

I play both, and upright bass too. If you just want to learn a different instrument, then fretless is mo' different. if you actually want to play bass in a live context, then get a fretted bass.

Fretless is very very cool, and way more expressive than fretted, but it's much much harder to play. Partly this is the obvious intonation issue--it's easy to slip out of tune. But the tone is also harder to control--it tends to be "bigger" and looser. A fretted bass note is plucked and then pretty much stays in character as it decays--pretty much the same overtones and timbre. A fretless note will do all sorts of cool/odd stuff before it decays, abnd in some cntexts it just sounds too busy and dstracting. if you're walkng a blues line you want a really fosued, consistent sound, and if your fretless is "mwahhing" all over the place no one will be happy

So it depends on your goals. if you wnat to play with people, get a fretted unless you're ready for a steeper learning curve

maxvintage · May 7th, 2003, 09:32 AM

Regarding the steinbergers--cheap, but I'd stay away, you can't play them sitting down, and they have cheap EMG active electronics which in my experience sound lousy. Also string are harder to find. I'd get a good mim fender of a Yamaha--Yamaha's low end basses are cheap and excellent.

coop · May 10th, 2003, 12:39 AM

If you really are interested in fretless, check out the lowend yamaha's, 3-400$'s. You may want to replace the electronics. I have A sound gearish type yamaha with a split "p" p-up. Dont expect to jump in and gig with it, as it takes alot of getting used to. Fretted might be a better option for your first bass.

Scott S · April 17th, 2008, 01:59 PM

If you have to ask, you really need to try them out in person before spending your money.

- Scott

winny pooh · September 4th, 2008, 08:15 AM

Just get a decent p-bass to start with and the other stuff will came later if it needs to m'kay.

Tim Armstrong · September 4th, 2008, 02:56 PM

I played a fretless P-Bass in my first real band, and one thing I found was how hard it was to sing and play accurately at the same time! I eventually got myself a fretted bass and found it a lot easier...

Cheers, Tim

lupowitz · September 4th, 2008, 08:18 PM

My main guitar is a Steinberger Spirit GT-Pro.
Yesterday I spent a nearly whole afternoon in a shop here in Budapest, playing a fretless Hohner steinberger bass copy, and the main reason for not buying it is that I just bought a fretless mongrel bass (Warwick Thumb-ish) a few weeks ago.
Steinbergers can come as a shock, if your are not experienced with them, but that shocked actually changed my guitar playing life for the better.
I could not stop playing that bass yesterday, ergonomicaly it is just no contest for me anyway, Ned Steinberger as Reeves Gabrels put it is the Leo Fender of his generation.

Electronics are often if not regularly changed on pricier instruments too, so ...
Getting double ball strings is not an issue even here in Hungary, which is probably the least steinberger penetrated segment of the whole universe.

Try it though, a lot of people hate the shape, the comfort, the sound, the looks.
Musiciansfriend is selling the Steinberger Spirit line, the bass is called XT, and unlike their Hohner counterparts, they came with two passive EMG select pickups with no active tone controll. On the Steinberger forum is common knowledge, that changing the pots to CTS or any higher quality stuff skyrockets the sound of this durable instruments.
As far as I can tell, Steinberger does not offer fretless in the Spirit line - a few years ago an unlined five string version was available- but you can get rid of the frets, a few guitar shops are offering this for not much more than a 100 USD, such was the hohner I played yesterday, and is my warwick lookalike mongrel.

lupowitz · September 4th, 2008, 08:32 PM

Oh, and apart from Jaco to whom the whole fretless thing is coming from, if you are into experimental, check Patrick O'hearn on Zappa's Live in New York on a frettles precision, if you're into pop, than check Pino Palladino's work on Paul Young's Every time you go away or Come back and Stay on a fretless Stingray, if you are into weirdo's, check Gary Numan's Dance with Mick Karn (of Japan) playing a fretless Wall, or if you' are into world music than try not to step on your own dropped jaw hearing Bakithi Kumalo playing some don'tknowwhat bass on Paul Simon's Graceland.
These totally different musical examples should give you an idea of what a fretless bass can be used for.
Anything I might say.

SoulPedro · September 15th, 2008, 08:54 AM

Fretless basses are great sounding and playing instruments, but I wouldn't recommend one as a first bass.
They are more difficult to play and IMHO less versatile than fretted basses.

I'd buy an inexpensive Precision as a first bass (Mexican classic series, or perhaps one of these new Squier classic vibes 60's). A fretless bass would be a great addition later!

May 4th, 2003, 10:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
RTod Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 177	Guitar player with questions...Fret vs Fretless? Steinberge I dont play bass, but I was wondering, what does fretles vs frets do for the sound you get from your bass? And I saw some very inexpensive Steinbergers over at Music o, they got great reviews on H.C. But sometimes that page is tough to judge from....any opinions on these?

May 5th, 2003, 07:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
Gene Machine Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trenton, Ontario Posts: 313	will be some work Fretless basses sound great. if you can listen to some weather report with Jaco, you can get an idea about the tone. BUt, they will require some work to get the intonation right. If you get one with fret lines, it will be a bit easier, but still you have to be bang on. If this is a first bass as a diversion from the guitar, it's probably best to go with frets. g.

May 5th, 2003, 11:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
feojack Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Houston,TX Posts: 240	Depends on what you're playing At least for me it depends on what I'm playing. To my ears, it differences are really subtle. The differences for me come in where I'm playing on the neck. At the bottom end, fretless isn't too much different. If I'm going to the top end a lot, I sort of like the frets being there. Either way, it'll sure make you use your ears more, which is good for me. It boils down to six one way, half a dozen the other. Another thing I enjoy on fretless, is if I have a string go out of tune, I can play it sharp or flat, depending, to balance it out til I can grab a tuner. PLUS ~ If you've ever tried to learn tunes from old records, (before the wonderful age of electronic tuners), it's easier for me to follow the tune on fretless & then transpose it to whatever key I'll be using on the fretted. Cheerio, Y'all :-)

May 10th, 2003, 12:39 AM	#7 (permalink)
coop TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Upland, CA Posts: 44	yamaha fretless great place to start If you really are interested in fretless, check out the lowend yamaha's, 3-400$'s. You may want to replace the electronics. I have A sound gearish type yamaha with a split "p" p-up. Dont expect to jump in and gig with it, as it takes alot of getting used to. Fretted might be a better option for your first bass.

September 4th, 2008, 08:15 AM	#9 (permalink)
winny pooh Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: South London Posts: 1,612 7 Photos	Just get a decent p-bass to start with and the other stuff will came later if it needs to m'kay. __________________ my afro ambient side project: http://www.myspace.com/theswyambusessions

May 5th, 2003, 09:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Bob Rogers Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Blacksburg, VA Posts: 1,710	Fretted basses generally have a cleaner tone, more sustain, and (unless you are especially good) more precise intonation. Fretless have a faster decay and a buzzier "mwaah" sound - like an upright bass

May 7th, 2003, 09:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
maxvintage Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 49 Posts: 427	I play both, and upright bass too. If you just want to learn a different instrument, then fretless is mo' different. if you actually want to play bass in a live context, then get a fretted bass. Fretless is very very cool, and way more expressive than fretted, but it's much much harder to play. Partly this is the obvious intonation issue--it's easy to slip out of tune. But the tone is also harder to control--it tends to be "bigger" and looser. A fretted bass note is plucked and then pretty much stays in character as it decays--pretty much the same overtones and timbre. A fretless note will do all sorts of cool/odd stuff before it decays, abnd in some cntexts it just sounds too busy and dstracting. if you're walkng a blues line you want a really fosued, consistent sound, and if your fretless is "mwahhing" all over the place no one will be happy So it depends on your goals. if you wnat to play with people, get a fretted unless you're ready for a steeper learning curve

May 7th, 2003, 09:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
maxvintage Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 49 Posts: 427	Regarding the steinbergers--cheap, but I'd stay away, you can't play them sitting down, and they have cheap EMG active electronics which in my experience sound lousy. Also string are harder to find. I'd get a good mim fender of a Yamaha--Yamaha's low end basses are cheap and excellent.

April 17th, 2008, 01:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW CR IA US NA PE Age: 28 Posts: 1,729	If you have to ask, you really need to try them out in person before spending your money. - Scott

September 4th, 2008, 02:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Berlin, Maryland, USA Age: 49 Posts: 9,717	I played a fretless P-Bass in my first real band, and one thing I found was how hard it was to sing and play accurately at the same time! I eventually got myself a fretted bass and found it a lot easier... Cheers, Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

September 4th, 2008, 08:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
lupowitz Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hungary Posts: 345	My main guitar is a Steinberger Spirit GT-Pro. Yesterday I spent a nearly whole afternoon in a shop here in Budapest, playing a fretless Hohner steinberger bass copy, and the main reason for not buying it is that I just bought a fretless mongrel bass (Warwick Thumb-ish) a few weeks ago. Steinbergers can come as a shock, if your are not experienced with them, but that shocked actually changed my guitar playing life for the better. I could not stop playing that bass yesterday, ergonomicaly it is just no contest for me anyway, Ned Steinberger as Reeves Gabrels put it is the Leo Fender of his generation. Electronics are often if not regularly changed on pricier instruments too, so ... Getting double ball strings is not an issue even here in Hungary, which is probably the least steinberger penetrated segment of the whole universe. Try it though, a lot of people hate the shape, the comfort, the sound, the looks. Musiciansfriend is selling the Steinberger Spirit line, the bass is called XT, and unlike their Hohner counterparts, they came with two passive EMG select pickups with no active tone controll. On the Steinberger forum is common knowledge, that changing the pots to CTS or any higher quality stuff skyrockets the sound of this durable instruments. As far as I can tell, Steinberger does not offer fretless in the Spirit line - a few years ago an unlined five string version was available- but you can get rid of the frets, a few guitar shops are offering this for not much more than a 100 USD, such was the hohner I played yesterday, and is my warwick lookalike mongrel.

September 4th, 2008, 08:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
lupowitz Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hungary Posts: 345	Oh, and apart from Jaco to whom the whole fretless thing is coming from, if you are into experimental, check Patrick O'hearn on Zappa's Live in New York on a frettles precision, if you're into pop, than check Pino Palladino's work on Paul Young's Every time you go away or Come back and Stay on a fretless Stingray, if you are into weirdo's, check Gary Numan's Dance with Mick Karn (of Japan) playing a fretless Wall, or if you' are into world music than try not to step on your own dropped jaw hearing Bakithi Kumalo playing some don'tknowwhat bass on Paul Simon's Graceland. These totally different musical examples should give you an idea of what a fretless bass can be used for. Anything I might say.

September 15th, 2008, 08:54 AM	#13 (permalink)
SoulPedro TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: France Age: 44 Posts: 44	Fretless basses are great sounding and playing instruments, but I wouldn't recommend one as a first bass. They are more difficult to play and IMHO less versatile than fretted basses. I'd buy an inexpensive Precision as a first bass (Mexican classic series, or perhaps one of these new Squier classic vibes 60's). A fretless bass would be a great addition later!