Tube pre amp vs. Tube amp ....for bass

[batkins]

I seem to notice that guitar players prefer tube amps. I also notice that bass players seem to opt for tube pre amps with solid state amps. What's the reasoning for this? Weight would be my only guess.

[Bluesbob]

Power/weight ratio... In fact, the only reason I enjoy playing through my 300-watt SVT is for the tone, when it's being pushed slightly into overdrive and the tubes start to saturate and compress. With a closed-cab 6X10 or 8X10 - that's the ticket.
But I don't want to lug around 100+ lb. cabs and 90 lb. heads. One time I did, but no more. So to get the same SPL's and have some headroom left over for tone-shaping and punch I use an 1100-watt solid state amp with a compressor and pre-amp tube. Even with a wireless, tuner and 8-outlet surge protector in a 6-space rack it all weighs in at a little more than half the weight of the tube head - without the rack and accessories!
All that wattage is necessary to get the maximum SPL's (and tone, punch, projection, etc.) out of a lightweight but highly efficient 4X10 that weighs less than half of the large cab. I can get close to the sound I love with only half the weight.
Not that anybody but us bass-players cares, but the world of bass-guitar is as progressive as any part of music, while as a guitar-player I gotta say my tube amps do everything I need them to. But that's just me. Lotsa guys like modeling amps, too.

[batkins]

Thanks for the info.
It does make me feel a bit better when I'm on the right track!

[4mal]

A lot of the nuances of tubes are not well represented in the bass frequency range. The biggie - that power tube compression thing is about the only advantage I hear and it takes a beheamoth of an amp - the SVT to get it at strong gig volume.

There is a very fine line between just enough of that and too much as well. We've all heard the small guitar amp that just sings when it's in it's range - and sounds kinda flat under the operating range and just fizzy when being run above it ... to my ear, it's the same thing but at a higher power level for tube bass amps. I detest pre-amp tube grind - it is jut not a substitution for what happens in a hot power tube. Not even close...

There are a few designs out there that incorporate tubes that sound great but it isn't just the tube - it's the whole thing. Eden WT integrated heads, The Eden Navigator, BBE BMaxT preamp, the Alembix F1x and F2B, the Demeter 201 - all tube based pre's that just a wonderful audio quality to them - to my ear none of them sound particularly good if overdriven though.

The old ART Tube Channel is a real bargain at $125 to $150 used if you can find one ... amazingly good sounding pre. Rear panel i/o and a busy front panel are the down sides. Once you suss it though - it sounds great and is way flexible.

There are a number of Solid State - no tube at all amp designs out there that do just fine at getting a warm, slightly compressed thing going on without any tube. They're generally smaller, lighter and frankly - off the shelf, easily replaced if necessary. A decent SS bass head is pretty easy to live with ... I have no problem getting my GK to that warm and full but clean and punchy place I love.

So to net some of that crap out ... for guitar, a Princeton Reverb or decent SF Deluxe is pretty tough to beat tonally. I put up with tube amp maintenance and fragility for that tone. There isn't an analog I find attractive in the bass amp world. I would like to check the Peavey VB2 out but for me, 225 watts isn't a great deal of power - and it is at least *9x the size of my 2 lb EA micro head - it's going to do something spectacular tonally to get my attention ...

* I'm guessing at 3x the height, 3x the width at a minimum ... 40 lbs + vs 2 lb ...

[marshman]

I've a few high-power tube amps that are totally unbeatable in the tone stakes. But they're a little on the old side, and just plain ol' unreliable, not to mention almost as heavy as a late 60's VW Beetle.

If (and maybe when) I get my act together and can clone that vintage tube head with modern parts, I'll consider taking one on the road. I can upgrade it to 88s or 6550s to get the real power I want and NOT worry about it surviving a gig, and I will play it live.

I don't believe that a bassist really needs a whole lot more than 200 watts to gig. It's just like guitarists with 100watt Marshalls--if you're gigging a scene that requires a whole lot more than that, you'll probably have PA support, use it. I generally use a 200 watt 2x10 combo for rehearsal, and just augment that with a second cab on the other side of the stage at gigs.

And I really don't see much point in tube preamps mated with SS power...if you're gonna bother with tubes, go whole hog.