New to Bass, Few Questions

[roadrider502]

I've been a guitar player for 15 years and just got into bass (always wanted to give it a try). I have a new 2008 MIA Fender Jazz Bass and was curious on what others think about the tone of the pup's. They seem a little bright to me, but I don't have anything to compare too and just roll off the tone warm up the tone. I'm playing through an Acoustic b200. Also, the neck seems to be very sensitive to adjustments and temperature changes. I find myself tweaking the truss rod a lot more than my guitars. Due to tension of the large strings, I assume this is somewhat normal? Overall the bass feels, plays and sound great to me. I haven't touched my tele in over a month and I'm getting worried.

[Tim Armstrong]

Welcome to the lowdown side!

Jazz Basses tend to be brighter than P-Basses, but as you've found, you can dial in a satisfying thump. Don't know what to tell you about the neck issues, perhaps you'd benefit from different strings (lots of variability in string tension between different brands).

Tim

[roadrider502]

Thanks! Great to be in the deep end.

I haven't changed the strings yet. It's strung with Fender's Super Bass 8250M's (45-110) with a taperwound E. I've never liked Fender's stock guitar strings and have been using D'Addario and Ernie Ball's on my tele's. Since this all new to me, I'm not sure what strings are preferred in the bass world. I'll have to do some research. I see Fenders Stew Hamm signature bass is strung with 8250's and review's on the net seem to like them. I play mostly classic rock.

[marshman]

The J neck is awful thin, and this is a real funny time of year as humidity goes, so it might just need a bit more seasoning. Should settle down.

I've always preferred the Dean Markley Blue Steels, but they're pretty expensive, so I don't get 'em all that often. Oddly enough, the only strings I've ever had trouble with are DRs (which broke on me when I was tryin' to install 'em, at the post) which have a great reputation. The ones that survived sounded fine, but I was kinda put-off by the problems.

At some point, get yourself a set of flats, just to see how they sound. They don't sell as well, so you can occasionally get a good deal on 'em.

[FirstBassman]

RR502,

Let me just play devil's advocate here for a moment ... I'm just asking ...


The "brightness" might be partly caused by your technique.
As I'm sure you already know, playing bass (we're talking right-hand here) is much different than guitar.
You're not using a pick though, btw, are you?
Guitar playing is done more near the ends of the fingers and the strings are "plucked."
On bass, you should try and play more toward halfway between the first "crease" and the thickest fleshy part of your finger.
Also, the finger sort of pushes in toward the instrument and then rests on the next string.
This will help you get a nice, full, warm tone.

There's a pretty good photo and description here:

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...ss-guitar.html

[broadcaster]

D'Addario rounds are a warm roundwound string and will warm up more after break-in. Personally, I dig 8250/7250's, they sound just right on a Fender to my ears.

Roll back the tone knob on the guitar and/or cut the high EQ back on your amp to cut treble. In a band mix, the treble will not be as noticible as when playing solo.

In my neck of the woods (upper midwest), I have to tweak the truss twice a year on my basses, which is at the beginning of winter, and summer. Your new J neck should settle down in a bit.

[franchelB]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

Welcome to the lowdown side!

Jazz Basses tend to be brighter than P-Basses, but as you've found, you can dial in a satisfying thump. Don't know what to tell you about the neck issues, perhaps you'd benefit from different strings (lots of variability in string tension between different brands).

Tim

and which is the reason I play a P-Bass. I do play with a Jazz (fretless) neck because of my small hands.
Anyway, like Tim said, "welcome"!

[FirstBassman]

Originally Posted by broadcaster

D'Addario rounds are a warm roundwound string and will warm up more after break-in.

I use Ground Wounds for an even warmer sound.

Originally Posted by broadcaster

Roll back the tone knob on the guitar and/or cut the high EQ back on your amp to cut treble. In a band mix, the treble will not be as noticible as when playing solo.

You mean 'bass,' of course (not 'guitar') but yeah, good point.

[jefrs]

Also a bass playing guitarist, I discovered Thomastik Jazz-EB JR344 which are 43,57,68,89 (probably the only 'long scale' long enough to fit my PV TB-40). Despite being a lot thinner than normal (so more familiar to us puny guitarists), punch well above their weight. They are well balanced, have a good clear tone and can give a most excellent thump.

Strangely, after learning the bass, your guitar playing will probably improve.

[roadrider502]

I'm using pretty much text book finger style just like the link above shows. I can fingerpick so it wasn't that big of a transition for me. A pick just doesn't feel or sound right to me on a bass? I don't like the harsher tone at all. I know some songs have to be played with a pick to sound more authentic. I may use a little more of my fingers to add some warmth. I catch my self playing too much on my tips and sometime end up with a harmonic (catching a nail) instead of the note. Good point. Thanks!

I have no problem with the string gauge and it feels perfect now after a month of playing.

I have to retract the bright comment. Ya, it's a "little" bright with the tone control at 100%. But roll that back a little bit and it's like magic with any combo of pickups! Perfect. Nice and warm.




You're not using a pick though, btw, are you?

[Tim Armstrong]

Originally Posted by FirstBassman

RR502,

Let me just play devil's advocate here for a moment ... I'm just asking ...


The "brightness" might be partly caused by your technique.
As I'm sure you already know, playing bass (we're talking right-hand here) is much different than guitar.
You're not using a pick though, btw, are you?
Guitar playing is done more near the ends of the fingers and the strings are "plucked."
On bass, you should try and play more toward halfway between the first "crease" and the thickest fleshy part of your finger.
Also, the finger sort of pushes in toward the instrument and then rests on the next string.
This will help you get a nice, full, warm tone.

There's a pretty good photo and description here:

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...ss-guitar.html

Wait just a second there, while the technique you're describing is certainly a good way to play, it's far from the only way to do it! There is no one right way to play bass, any more than there is to play guitar. Whatever technique one uses that works is right!

I could list all the world-class bassists who use a pick, for instance, but it's late and I want to go to bed...

Tim

[Anchoret]

Originally Posted by jefrs

Strangely, after learning the bass, your guitar playing will probably improve.

True, and also the case with picking up other instruments besides bass. Wait until you start drums!

[Anchoret]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

There is no one right way to play bass, any more than there is to play guitar. Whatever technique one uses that works is right!

Emphasis on "that works."

There are so many ways your playing technique can go subtly wrong (worst case like mine where I permanently injured my hand) and no matter how you play, the majority of other musicians -- if they notice you at all -- will still think you should be doing something differently anyway. [shrug]

My advice is to be aware of as many options as possible, but play in the way that feels most physically natural for you and supports the material you are playing in the most organic way. Pay attention to your body and the music. Everything else is largely distraction.

[FirstBassman]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

Wait just a second there, while the technique you're describing is certainly a good way to play, it's far from the only way to do it! There is no one right way to play bass

Tim, yes, absolutely. I agree with you 1,000%

In fact, I have a beginner student right now and I was going to select a couple of YouTube clips for him to watch on right hand technque.
But they were so pedantic I decided not to confuse him with them. (Your arm must be here, you must do this, etc.).

In my post I was trying to address the specific question ... and to see if the tone was partly caused by technique.

I've always believed that whatever works and sounds good is ok.

[beep.click]

Originally Posted by marshman

At some point, get yourself a set of flats, just to see how they sound.

+1

For me, there was no going back.

[4mal]

That 2008 MIA STD has truss and graphite reinforcemnts in the neck I believe. I would htink a month would be adequate for it to stabilize. If you have to keep tweaking the truss at this point I would consider that maybe, maybe that neck is problematic. Let the dealer know and then keep a log of the tweaks. Where I am in the Northwest, humidity goes from extremely low int he summer to extremely wet in the winter so two times a year I expect to do a minor setup on every instrument in the house. A 1/4 turn of the truss is always enough after an instrument has settled in here though. Some do take longer than others but with the neck design on that MIA Fender, I would expect it to settle in pretty quickly.

As far as strings go - plays these until they're deader than dead, then think about a string change. There isn't any one best string out there - this os one reason that I keep a number of basses around. Gotta have flats, gotta have rounds in the stable - If I were to pick just 1 string type, it sould have to be rounds. The feel isn't as nice - flats can make you very, lazy in your fretting hand ! I can mute, EQ and compress rounds to get in the flat wound neighborhood tonally - ya can't EQ the round wound twang into flats though... so if all you play is half note swing - flat's for sure! If you also want to Entwhistle on occaision- you are going to have to have rounds for that...

One reeally good reason to use rounds, particularly when starting out is that while flat's feel sleek and slippery - that feeling can mask some bad fretting hand technique and make you sloppy - rounds are going to give you a little finger barking and remind you that you are getting lazy ... If it's for the long haul, then learning to be accurate in your fretting right from the start might be to your advantage long term.

Think of it like a competitive cyclist. In the early season, it's heavy wheel set's and gummy tires. Then comes racing season, it's light weight sprinty wheel sets and you feel like super-man! (Problem is that everybody does that so even Superman see's the back of the pace line...) I practice using rounds almost exclusively. When I take flat's out to play - everything just feels easier.

No problem with rolling the tone back a little to tame a J IMO. In my rig, with passive J's I typically do it at the amp and I roll back the 1.8K to 2.5 k area - somewhere in there is the fret clack zone. That is going to vary rig to rig though.

From a technique standpoint, doing what works will take you some distance. DO pay attention to your joints - I didn't and played my self into a nasty tendonitis thing in my left elbow. I'm still dealing with it a few months later and of course wish I had started dealing with it earlier, not to mention paying attention to it when it started up. Oddly enough, a large contributor to my elbow seems to have been two basses that I have since parted company with. J's are all I can comfortable play at this point. There is someting about the way a J hangs, that on my body moves the nut a smidge closer in to me and that makes a huge diference in the lateral motion that set's my elbow off...

When it comes to string selection, use the search here first. It's been discussed to heck and back...

[roadrider502]

I got into a rut playing guitar a few months ago and decided on a whim to just learn a few bass lines for the hell of it (on guitar). I plugged my tele into my effects processor and set it to bass simulator. I downloaded some bass tabs to a few of the songs I know on guitar and started playing along. After a few days I was hooked and decided to get a bass and amp and try it out for real. I don't play in a band and all my musician friends are or were guitar players so I was left to explore unknown territory on my own. No big deal, nothing to do this winter anyway. Well, I've been playing for 2 months now and having a lot of fun. Getting to the point. I unpacked my new Jazz and plugged in. Hmmm, should I use a pick or my fingers? Well, I tried both and decided I liked playing with my fingers better for 2 main reasons: 1. I liked the tone better and 2. It was easier and more natural for me. Then I started to research technique and discovered I was using pretty much the correct finger style technique. Obviously, I have to work on perfecting it, but it was pretty good. Basically, I'm just going to play the instrument the way I want and do what comes natural to me. Unless, I'm violating some major rule like only using down strokes for everything or not alternating fingers, I'm not worrying about it too much. I don't think there is a right or a wrong way to play any instrument, if the results are good music!

[roadrider502]

Thanks for all the advice!

I wasn't aware of all the overuse injuries with bass. I can relate because my arms have been really sore, but getting better. My body (joints) is basically shot from years of competitive cycling and running. Between spending most of my day at the computer keyboard and then guitar on top of that, my arms are typically pretty sore. I need to be careful. I started to stretch my arms and fingers before and after playing.

[4mal]

Good plan that... not stretching got me into trouble cycling with an ITB issue a couple of years ago. Damned painful thing to recover from - a lot like the elbow tendonitis thing so there i go being a bad example or good depending on your viewpoint.

First day of the year on ski's for me yesterday - gettin a late start hearabouts. I was pretty well stretched out and not too sore today.

[jefrs]

As a former athlete that drives a desk for a living, stretching exercise at work is important. Tai Chi. Which works. Various Tai Chi stretching and warm up exercises can be done whilst working, and impresses the workmates far more than the karate =nutter cachet.
I can't run anymore, ankles gone, so I'm waiting for the weather so I can get my bicycles out again.