Bass amp that can pass for acoustic gtr amp?

FRETCOM · November 30th, 2008, 07:32 PM

Hello fellow TDPRIers,

I am a longtime electric gtr player (almost 25 years) that is looking to take on more bass work with a local trio and potentially work as an acoustic gtr duo. I have a great electric gtr rig that I like very much but need to purchase a bass amp. My hope is that the bass amp "might" be able to pass for an acoustic gtr amp (Martin D15) as well. I know I know...I'M CHEAP :)

I have my eye on a Markbass CMD121P combo...it sounded great in GC with a jazz bass.

I know that it would be best if I tried it and heard it with my own ears but since I haven't...have any TDPRIers ever tried such a thing? Any "best guess" as to if it "might" be able to work for a Martin D15 acoustic gtr? My Martn D15 all mahogany acoustic always sounded a little bright to my ears...thinking that a bass amp might take some of the edge off. Maybe...

I know that the Markbass is way too loud for an acoutic gtr amp but I just wouldn't turn it up that loud :) Thoughts or guesses either way?

Any feedback or direction is appreciated...tks.

Regards,
fretcom

Tim Armstrong · November 30th, 2008, 08:07 PM

I gig frequently in a duo situation with my brother on acoustic guitar, and we do just fine NOT using an acoustic guitar amplifier but rather running his Martin D-41 through a Baggs ParaDI into the PA system. Acoustic amps are really just little PA systems, and we find them redundant...

Tim

vanvhreen · November 30th, 2008, 08:56 PM

An Acoustic Image Coda R is what I use for exactly the same purpose: Bass and acoustic guitar. Bass in one channel, guitar in the other.

Expensive but worth it. Learn more here:

FRETCOM · November 30th, 2008, 09:09 PM

Tim I would agree with you if I could regarding acoustic amps being redundant if you have a PA. This notion only works if you have a PA :) We are trying to pull this duo off with just 2 guitars and 2 amps...nuff said.

Bluesbob · November 30th, 2008, 09:16 PM

I have an SWR Basic Black 1X15 w/horn bass combo amp (discontinued). I have used it as an amp for an acoustic guitar and also for keyboard. I don't think there's much difference between it and the SWR Strawberry Blonde (1X12) - except for the additional features that make an acoustic amp so handy, like mic inputs, multiple channels, effects, etc. - sort of like a mini-PA. If you're going through a PA anyway, and you need an amp to use as a stage monitor, I don't know if you really need all those features. But I do recommend the Basic Black as an acoustic guitar amp - if you can find one. When they come up on eBay they're usually reasonably priced, but you can't be sure of condition, especially the speaker. It also is a really nice sounding bass amp, more "old school" than modern, with a decent effects loop and DI, so it can be used as a single-amp solution for a lot of situations. It's just not loud enough for some bass gigs at 120 watts (or 160 with an extension 8-ohm cab), but it does have some surprizing muscle for such a small rig, especially with another 1X15.
The guitar/keys player in Hadicus Road used to use a Hartke 2500 through a 1X15 and 2X10 for his keys and acoustic guitar because he wanted the clean headroom, while still playing electric guitar through a 38-watt Dr Z 2X10 rig - at least until he realized that nobody was going to help him carry all that extra stuff.

KCKC · November 30th, 2008, 09:18 PM

I play my bass/acoustic & electric guitar through my polytone minibrute iv. Never had a problem.

Using an ART preamp really warms up and rounds out my bass, keeping the master low and cranking my channel vol. gives me a great country tone on my squier 51 and I have a no name acoustic with built in pickup and that comes through nice and clean.

I believe it's rated around 90 watts and has a great 15" speaker. This is what I downsized to years ago.

kc

Tim Armstrong · November 30th, 2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRETCOM

Tim I would agree with you if I could regarding acoustic amps being redundant if you have a PA. This notion only works if you have a PA :) We are trying to pull this duo off with just 2 guitars and 2 amps...nuff said.

Yep, that would make a difference!

I'm thinking that maybe a decent acoustic guitar preamp run into a bass amp would be a good way to go. That way, you get whatever impedance matching you need to get the signal right...

Tim

tjalla · November 30th, 2008, 11:27 PM

Or individual preamps into a powered wedge?

RomanS · December 1st, 2008, 04:12 AM

Actually, the Markbass might work very well as it is - I've got a Markbass Little Mark 250, and not only is it one of the best bass amps I ever tried (hmm, make that THE best... Admittedly, I'm one of the few bassists who is NOT a fan of Ampeg SVT tone), it also works well for acoustic guitar (I have tried this with my Guild steel-string and Ortega nylon string, through 1x15" and 1x10" bass speakers, and through 1x12" & 1x10" guitar cabs, too), steel guitar, and, yes, even Telecasters (I just played a gig were my guitar amp broke down, so I simply plugged the Markbass into my guitar cab and my Tele into the Markbass, and got a very useable clean tone, better than most solid state guitar amps I ever tried...)

I think the secret behind the Markbass' flexibility is that it has a very uncoloured tone that simply amplifies what's put into it, but also has a very effective (yet simple to use) EQ (the VLE is great for adding a bit of warmth, the VPF for adding clarity).

4mal · December 1st, 2008, 12:24 PM

I've done exactly what you are trying to do. Cabinet wise I'm using a Bag End S15X-D. The Bag End is co-axial with an Eminence compression driver threaded onto the back of the 15. It's clear enough to sing through - no kidding. It works really well with the BBand on board electronics in my Larrivee and with an old sound hole style pickup from god know's where stuffed into a 70's Guild that belongs to a song writing friend.

The amp is an EA Micro 300 (Euphonic Audio). It's a two channel amp that allows you to blend two separate instruments as well as channel switch. It is very clear and has a nicely voiced EQ.

By itself it's a nice compact rig - the cab is about 18.5 " square and not very deep. It handle's a bass bump on the EQ and richen's up well. The amp is ridiculous 180 watts into 8 ohms, 300 into 4 - all in a 2.5 lb, 5.5" x 8.5 x 2 " box. Looks like a toy - doesn't sound like one though ...

1 amp, 1 cab, bass & acoustic guitar covered. I'm going to try this with a small mixer soon and see if we can cover guitar bass and voice together.

In it's bass rig incarnation, I add another 15 and get 300 watts into 2 15's. It's a good real world setup for duo gigs and it can morph to become a small to medium bar date bass rig for a classic rock scene. The EA heads are beginning to show up in the used market in the $375 to $400 range. The cab's are plentiful used in the $400 to $450 range from what I've seens. Note the 'X' model cab is the one with the tweet - to get the acoustic thing going that is pretty much mandatory.

Tim Armstrong · December 1st, 2008, 12:30 PM

Again, I want to remind you that, while your average magnetic pickup works fine run straight into an amp or mixer, piezos (being very high impedance) absolutely benefit from using a preamp like a Baggs Para DI or suchlike to match impedances first.

Tim

4mal · December 1st, 2008, 06:57 PM

The BBand stuff in my Larrivee (pickup, preamp) seems to do OK going straight in. I'm guessing that is the on board electronics though. Those are kinda 'budget' models as the L-03RE is the lowest end Larrivee with electronics. If I were to do it again I'd get the L-03 and put in a sound hole style pickup I think. I'm being shallow - the guitar would be prettier without that preamp do-dad in the upper bout ... I suppose I could go find the manual ...

Tim Armstrong · December 1st, 2008, 07:00 PM

I have a Highlander piezo in my Larrivee D-03, but it has a little preamp with it, along with an impossible-to-reach 9 volt battery!

Tim

4mal · December 2nd, 2008, 11:18 AM

Yep, my battery is on a little pouch mounted near the bass of the neck gotta de-string to change batteries ... kinda wish I'd bought the non pickup version and then installed something else using floor box controls. n the other hand I really like that guitar a lot. I've been oplaying a bunch if acoustic this fall and the more I play that one, the more I like it. Lotta guitar for the dough...

patrickhowell · December 5th, 2008, 12:35 PM

Any "modern" bass amp (as opposed to vintage/SVT) should sound good for acoustic... Ported enclosures with an adjustable tweeter should work great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

Again, I want to remind you that, while your average magnetic pickup works fine run straight into an amp or mixer, piezos (being very high impedance) absolutely benefit from using a preamp like a Baggs Para DI or suchlike to match impedances first.

Tim

Yeah, that's true. Piezo's usually like a very high impedance. If it's run into a low-z input, it will sound very thin. But anyone who's ever soldered anything before could rig up one of these impedance matchers: http://www.scotthelmke.com/Mint-box-buffer.html

JohnSS · December 6th, 2008, 10:07 PM

Carvin makes an amp designed for acoustic guitar/bass and vocals with inputs & EQ for each.

BobHolland · December 7th, 2008, 11:37 AM

Years ago when I was playing in a country band (mid 90's), we tried a lot of amps for our acoustic guitar player. We also miked the amp instead of running it direct to the sound board. The amp that seemed to work best for us was a keyboard amp, Peavey KB100.
I don't know if they are still being made. The Peavey KB100 just seemed to get the best sound for us.
Bob

November 30th, 2008, 07:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
FRETCOM TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Morrow, Ohio Age: 40 Posts: 37	Bass amp that can pass for acoustic gtr amp? Hello fellow TDPRIers, I am a longtime electric gtr player (almost 25 years) that is looking to take on more bass work with a local trio and potentially work as an acoustic gtr duo. I have a great electric gtr rig that I like very much but need to purchase a bass amp. My hope is that the bass amp "might" be able to pass for an acoustic gtr amp (Martin D15) as well. I know I know...I'M CHEAP :) I have my eye on a Markbass CMD121P combo...it sounded great in GC with a jazz bass. I know that it would be best if I tried it and heard it with my own ears but since I haven't...have any TDPRIers ever tried such a thing? Any "best guess" as to if it "might" be able to work for a Martin D15 acoustic gtr? My Martn D15 all mahogany acoustic always sounded a little bright to my ears...thinking that a bass amp might take some of the edge off. Maybe... I know that the Markbass is way too loud for an acoutic gtr amp but I just wouldn't turn it up that loud :) Thoughts or guesses either way? Any feedback or direction is appreciated...tks. Regards, fretcom

November 30th, 2008, 08:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ocean Pines, Maryland, USA Age: 50 Posts: 12,079	I gig frequently in a duo situation with my brother on acoustic guitar, and we do just fine NOT using an acoustic guitar amplifier but rather running his Martin D-41 through a Baggs ParaDI into the PA system. Acoustic amps are really just little PA systems, and we find them redundant... Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

November 30th, 2008, 09:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
Bluesbob Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: East Suffolk L.I. Posts: 1,201 20 Photos	Good bass amp = good acoustic amp... I have an SWR Basic Black 1X15 w/horn bass combo amp (discontinued). I have used it as an amp for an acoustic guitar and also for keyboard. I don't think there's much difference between it and the SWR Strawberry Blonde (1X12) - except for the additional features that make an acoustic amp so handy, like mic inputs, multiple channels, effects, etc. - sort of like a mini-PA. If you're going through a PA anyway, and you need an amp to use as a stage monitor, I don't know if you really need all those features. But I do recommend the Basic Black as an acoustic guitar amp - if you can find one. When they come up on eBay they're usually reasonably priced, but you can't be sure of condition, especially the speaker. It also is a really nice sounding bass amp, more "old school" than modern, with a decent effects loop and DI, so it can be used as a single-amp solution for a lot of situations. It's just not loud enough for some bass gigs at 120 watts (or 160 with an extension 8-ohm cab), but it does have some surprizing muscle for such a small rig, especially with another 1X15. The guitar/keys player in Hadicus Road used to use a Hartke 2500 through a 1X15 and 2X10 for his keys and acoustic guitar because he wanted the clean headroom, while still playing electric guitar through a 38-watt Dr Z 2X10 rig - at least until he realized that nobody was going to help him carry all that extra stuff. __________________ What, me worry?

November 30th, 2008, 09:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
KCKC Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Hingham, MA Age: 46 Posts: 265	I play my bass/acoustic & electric guitar through my polytone minibrute iv. Never had a problem. Using an ART preamp really warms up and rounds out my bass, keeping the master low and cranking my channel vol. gives me a great country tone on my squier 51 and I have a no name acoustic with built in pickup and that comes through nice and clean. I believe it's rated around 90 watts and has a great 15" speaker. This is what I downsized to years ago. kc Last edited by KCKC; November 30th, 2008 at 09:18 PM. Reason: spelling

December 1st, 2008, 04:12 AM	#9 (permalink)
RomanS Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Vienna, Austria Age: 37 Posts: 3,626 16 Photos	Actually, the Markbass might work very well as it is - I've got a Markbass Little Mark 250, and not only is it one of the best bass amps I ever tried (hmm, make that THE best... Admittedly, I'm one of the few bassists who is NOT a fan of Ampeg SVT tone), it also works well for acoustic guitar (I have tried this with my Guild steel-string and Ortega nylon string, through 1x15" and 1x10" bass speakers, and through 1x12" & 1x10" guitar cabs, too), steel guitar, and, yes, even Telecasters (I just played a gig were my guitar amp broke down, so I simply plugged the Markbass into my guitar cab and my Tele into the Markbass, and got a very useable clean tone, better than most solid state guitar amps I ever tried...) I think the secret behind the Markbass' flexibility is that it has a very uncoloured tone that simply amplifies what's put into it, but also has a very effective (yet simple to use) EQ (the VLE is great for adding a bit of warmth, the VPF for adding clarity). __________________ http://www.pbase.com/romans http://www.myspace.com/romans212

November 30th, 2008, 08:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
vanvhreen TDPRI Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 14 4 Photos	An Acoustic Image Coda R is what I use for exactly the same purpose: Bass and acoustic guitar. Bass in one channel, guitar in the other. Expensive but worth it. Learn more here:

November 30th, 2008, 09:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
FRETCOM TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Morrow, Ohio Age: 40 Posts: 37	Tim I would agree with you if I could regarding acoustic amps being redundant if you have a PA. This notion only works if you have a PA :) We are trying to pull this duo off with just 2 guitars and 2 amps...nuff said.

November 30th, 2008, 11:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
tjalla Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,308 7 Photos	Or individual preamps into a powered wedge?

December 1st, 2008, 12:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
4mal Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Gorge Posts: 2,390	I've done exactly what you are trying to do. Cabinet wise I'm using a Bag End S15X-D. The Bag End is co-axial with an Eminence compression driver threaded onto the back of the 15. It's clear enough to sing through - no kidding. It works really well with the BBand on board electronics in my Larrivee and with an old sound hole style pickup from god know's where stuffed into a 70's Guild that belongs to a song writing friend. The amp is an EA Micro 300 (Euphonic Audio). It's a two channel amp that allows you to blend two separate instruments as well as channel switch. It is very clear and has a nicely voiced EQ. By itself it's a nice compact rig - the cab is about 18.5 " square and not very deep. It handle's a bass bump on the EQ and richen's up well. The amp is ridiculous 180 watts into 8 ohms, 300 into 4 - all in a 2.5 lb, 5.5" x 8.5 x 2 " box. Looks like a toy - doesn't sound like one though ... 1 amp, 1 cab, bass & acoustic guitar covered. I'm going to try this with a small mixer soon and see if we can cover guitar bass and voice together. In it's bass rig incarnation, I add another 15 and get 300 watts into 2 15's. It's a good real world setup for duo gigs and it can morph to become a small to medium bar date bass rig for a classic rock scene. The EA heads are beginning to show up in the used market in the $375 to $400 range. The cab's are plentiful used in the $400 to $450 range from what I've seens. Note the 'X' model cab is the one with the tweet - to get the acoustic thing going that is pretty much mandatory.

December 1st, 2008, 12:30 PM	#11 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ocean Pines, Maryland, USA Age: 50 Posts: 12,079	Again, I want to remind you that, while your average magnetic pickup works fine run straight into an amp or mixer, piezos (being very high impedance) absolutely benefit from using a preamp like a Baggs Para DI or suchlike to match impedances first. Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

December 1st, 2008, 06:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
4mal Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Gorge Posts: 2,390	The BBand stuff in my Larrivee (pickup, preamp) seems to do OK going straight in. I'm guessing that is the on board electronics though. Those are kinda 'budget' models as the L-03RE is the lowest end Larrivee with electronics. If I were to do it again I'd get the L-03 and put in a sound hole style pickup I think. I'm being shallow - the guitar would be prettier without that preamp do-dad in the upper bout ... I suppose I could go find the manual ...

December 1st, 2008, 07:00 PM	#13 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ocean Pines, Maryland, USA Age: 50 Posts: 12,079	I have a Highlander piezo in my Larrivee D-03, but it has a little preamp with it, along with an impossible-to-reach 9 volt battery! Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

December 2nd, 2008, 11:18 AM	#14 (permalink)
4mal Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Gorge Posts: 2,390	Yep, my battery is on a little pouch mounted near the bass of the neck gotta de-string to change batteries ... kinda wish I'd bought the non pickup version and then installed something else using floor box controls. n the other hand I really like that guitar a lot. I've been oplaying a bunch if acoustic this fall and the more I play that one, the more I like it. Lotta guitar for the dough...

December 6th, 2008, 10:07 PM	#16 (permalink)
JohnSS Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 260	Carvin makes an amp designed for acoustic guitar/bass and vocals with inputs & EQ for each.

December 7th, 2008, 11:37 AM	#17 (permalink)
BobHolland TDPRI Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: North Carolina Age: 60 Posts: 93	Years ago when I was playing in a country band (mid 90's), we tried a lot of amps for our acoustic guitar player. We also miked the amp instead of running it direct to the sound board. The amp that seemed to work best for us was a keyboard amp, Peavey KB100. I don't know if they are still being made. The Peavey KB100 just seemed to get the best sound for us. Bob