question about bass rigs

[Rocks]

Back when I was playing in bands I always had a bass rig with at least 250 watts and a couple 15's. I've been thinking about getting back into a band to play small gigs like weddings and parties. From past experience I know that I want to have enough power to use my amp as a stage monitor. I also want to be able to get very good clean tones and also be able to make it growl when I need to. How much power is the average bass player gigging with for weddings and small gigs? Also, would a single 15" be enough?

[mudbean]

Hi Rocks,

I gig with a Gallien-Krueger 1001RB-II (700W) into an SWR Son of Bertha cab (one 15 w/horn). The GK is a lot of power, I've never had 'er above 4, even outdoors, and I can rock a banquet hall easily. The 1001RB-II is pricey, though - I got mine as a floor demo for less than half of list. The SWR cab is the smallest 15 cab I've ever seen, and it is bulletproof.

Again, it was an expensive rig for a weekend hack like myself, but I can cover any gig I've been presented with, and I never have to worry about it working.

my $0.02

mud

[4mal]

For me, unless you have extremely efficient speakers, preferrably multiples of them as surface area has a lot to do with volume - 250* watts is a smallish bass amp. These days watts are really pretty cheap - that GK is less than a buck a watt after all... having the extra horsepower on tap means you can be somewhat less selective about the cabinet if you want ...

A single 15 is a little shy for my uses. Yeah you can probably get away with it but you may be running near it's limits. I try to stay far away from the limits of a bass amp. Not doing so is to invite the experience of buying reconing services or replacement drivers.

2 1x15's is generally sufficient.
1 1x15 and a 2x10 is a real flexible setup.
1 2x12 is good as well.

obviously you can go bigger. To me the setups above represent the entry level to a good giggable, reliable bass rig.

I have two basic setups in use.
GK 1001 RB II and 2 Bag End 1x15's tweeterless. That's my good lookin' go to, one size fit's all kinda rig. I levae one cab home or take both setting dependant.

The same head but with an Avatar 2x10 and tweeter, with or without a 1x15 underneath it. The 1x15 is a home brew based onthe EV TL 606 'slot-port' spec's but with an Eminence 3015 15. It's a great sounding box but obviously home brew. Still working on that one when it's dialed in, I'll coat it with dura-tex for a pro finished look and duplicate it so that I have a pair.

I also run the 2x10 and 1x15 with a Traynor YBA-200. *200 watts of blazing 6550 tubes. Not as loud as the GK but totally giggable in small to moderate sized rooms. A very different character than the GK. I'm not entirely comfortable with it. While it does sound good, I'm not sure I have the call for an amp for it. Partly it's that I'm really comfortable with the super quick, super clean, high headroom approach of the GK. The tube compression thing is neat but I just don't get the call for that kind of sound. The GK I can do a lounge jazz gig, a classic rock gig, support the acoustic guys, do the local blues jam... The Traynor would be freakin' awsome if I had a full time blues band / classic rock gig - I just don't see that happening any time soon. I expect that Traynor is not a long term item for me.

I also have a Euphonic Audio iAmp Micro 300 in bound for evaluation. Google that one and you'll see why. If it works with the Bag End's - it will be my go to gig amp. 300 watts, fit's in your gig bag pocket ... I happened across an eval unit for cheap ($300) and thought what the heck it'll flip for that if it doesn't work out. I also need amplification for my keyboard rig - that is where the 2x10 will end up driven by ? currently it goes to my PA where it sits on Aux 2 and goes out 1 side of the on board power amp - but that could be a second monitor mix ... time will tell.

*I hate the whole tube watts vs solid state watt's discussion as it's really misleading. Essentially I can run the tube amp well into distortion and it still sounds good. Do that with a solid state bass amp and it sounds just as gnarly as it does for guitar... Even so, the 200 watt tube head will not keep up with the GK. I can however go out and gig the Traynor if the cabinet setup is efficient.. That is critical if you're running a low power rig...

[Tim Armstrong]

I gig with a 400-watt AMP BH-420 head (made in the 80s by some former Acoustic guys who went on to start both SWR and Eden) into an old Guild single 15" cab loaded with a Warehouse Speakers 15, and it's more than enough for our bar gigs. Sounds absolutely wonderful, too!

I used to gig with a 200-watt SWR head into a 2x10 cab, and then later a Crate PowerBlock into the Guild cab (and when I needed more horsepower, I used both rigs together!), and I always ran a lineout to the PA. And then, after getting away with that for several years, I boogered a PA speaker AND started having problems with the SWR, so I finally listened to the guys here and got me some more power.

And discovered that they were right, right, right.

Cheers, Tim

[broadcaster]

Rocks. a single 15 cab powered by 300 watts or more will be plenty loud to rock the house. I power an Ampeg SVT115E with a GK 700RB2 and it gets plenty loud for a stage monitor, with mucho volume and clean or gritty tone to spare for small to medium rooms. Add a second cab and/or run a DI into the house to really get the place shakin'.

[graphs]

I have an Ampeg V4B (~100W) into an Ampeg 2x15 cab and it has more power than some amps I've tried with twice the wattage. Definitely plenty for a wedding gig.

[broadcaster]

Originally Posted by graphs

I have an Ampeg V4B (~100W) into an Ampeg 2x15 cab and it has more power than some amps I've tried with twice the wattage. Definitely plenty for a wedding gig.

I once owned a V4-B and into a single fifteen it lacked headroom and would distort easily. Through a 2x15 it rocked.

[4mal]

V4B - great amp for relatively low volume rock 'n roll/ blues band but weddings ?
1. More expensive to buy used than a GK 1001 RB II new typically
2. cost of re-tubing
3. - you really have to know your Ampeg history when buying old ones - there were some reaily lean years quality wise - I went through a rebuild with a V4B - my local tech pulled out nealy 15 feet of extra wire. Dropped the noise floor hugely. They had done some really goofy stuff wire routing wise ...
4. 100 watts is well not enough to get me excited. Musical settings vary of course and what is adequate for my uses may be overkill for someone else...
5. a 65 to 70 pound 100 watt amp is very hard to get excited about IMO ...

I was an SVT user for many years and Ive heard other folks say that a V4B into the sealed 8x10 is awsome at reasonable volume levels. Cool but that's way more than I can move these days ...

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by broadcaster

I once owned a V4-B and into a single fifteen it lacked headroom and would distort easily. Through a 2x15 it rocked.

That wouldn't be just because there was only one 15, it would be due to your particular 15 not having enough power handling ability by itself. I gigged with a single 1x15 and had no distortion issues, because the speaker was a Mesa/EV with 400w capacity. There were no volume issues either (Mesa Bass 400+). This was in a very loud two-guitar rock band in a medium size club.

OTOH the same venue had a house V4-B and a 4x12 Ampeg cab. It bottomed out all the time. The amp just didn't have enough headroom. It was replaced by a vintage SVT.

[mudbean]

Originally Posted by 4mal

V4B - great amp for relatively low volume rock 'n roll/ blues band but weddings ?
1. More expensive to buy used than a GK 1001 RB II new typically
2. cost of re-tubing
3. - you really have to know your Ampeg history when buying old ones - there were some reaily lean years quality wise - I went through a rebuild with a V4B - my local tech pulled out nealy 15 feet of extra wire. Dropped the noise floor hugely. They had done some really goofy stuff wire routing wise ...
4. 100 watts is well not enough to get me excited. Musical settings vary of course and what is adequate for my uses may be overkill for someone else...
5. a 65 to 70 pound 100 watt amp is very hard to get excited about IMO ...

I was an SVT user for many years and Ive heard other folks say that a V4B into the sealed 8x10 is awsome at reasonable volume levels. Cool but that's way more than I can move these days ...

Well said, mal - personally, I don't get the tube amp thing for electric bass in a live rock/pop setting, I find they lack definition. Warm and fuzzy, yes, but I prefer more presence and punch. (I probably just don't play well enough to do them justice. ) Also, you've really got to be gentle with them - I play with many guitarists that love tube amps, but they've all had issues at one time or another (always the worst possible time!) with them, usually due to handling & transport stresses. Throw your hot tube amp on your handtruck after a 4 set gig, bounce it out to your car and see how long it lives!

My rig I mentioned earlier (GK 1001RBII -> SWR Son of Bertha) is the result of my search to get as small & easy to move as possible, while still having the horsepower to get the job done, and with topshelf reliability. Never underestimate the benefit of extra headroom.

mud

[JohnnyAtomic]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I gig with a 400-watt AMP BH-420 head (made in the 80s by some former Acoustic guys who went on to start both SWR and Eden) into an old Guild single 15" cab loaded with a Warehouse Speakers 15, and it's more than enough for our bar gigs. Sounds absolutely wonderful, too!

I used to gig with a 200-watt SWR head into a 2x10 cab, and then later a Crate PowerBlock into the Guild cab (and when I needed more horsepower, I used both rigs together!), and I always ran a lineout to the PA. And then, after getting away with that for several years, I boogered a PA speaker AND started having problems with the SWR, so I finally listened to the guys here and got me some more power.

And discovered that they were right, right, right.

Cheers, Tim

I really wanna try one of those BH420's or the Gibson GB440

[giginthesky]

2x10's 2x12's or a 1x15 is a good cab size for stage. for me, i'm more concerned about the head. the more watts the better. you don't want to be cranking your volume to keep up with the drummer just to find each of your notes sounding like you are playing through a distortion pedal. i use to use a 412 or a 215. total overkill i'm sure, but my sound was always clean. i've found the more powerful the head, the better. (so long as the speakers can handle the load) i say that cause i play slap, finger or pick.

[broadcaster]

Originally Posted by Dave W

That wouldn't be just because there was only one 15, it would be due to your particular 15 not having enough power handling ability by itself. I gigged with a single 1x15 and had no distortion issues, because the speaker was a Mesa/EV with 400w capacity. There were no volume issues either (Mesa Bass 400+). This was in a very loud two-guitar rock band in a medium size club.

OTOH the same venue had a house V4-B and a 4x12 Ampeg cab. It bottomed out all the time. The amp just didn't have enough headroom. It was replaced by a vintage SVT.

The very same 1x15" cab that distorted easily with the V4-B, was loud and clean pushed with a 300watt SS head.

[4mal]

I had a similar experience with my old V4B - it's a head that doesn't pair well with all cabinets was my take on it. It seemed like there was a huge low end extension or something going on. After getting it cleaned up, lead dressed and sorted out, I played through it for about a week and outta here!

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by broadcaster

The very same 1x15" cab that distorted easily with the V4-B, was loud and clean pushed with a 300watt SS head.

It's still a cab issue. If the V4-B didn't distort through 2 15s, then it's not the fault of the V4-B that a single 15 can't handle its particular frequency range.

[Rocks]

I had one of the AMP heads years ago, it was really a great head, someone stole it about 15 years ago and I have yet to find another. Right now I have a 15" cab with an eminence in it, it was an old Polytone amp with a very cool looking cabinet. I'd like to find a good combo with 2x10's to sit on top of it.

[4mal]

Originally Posted by Dave W

It's still a cab issue. If the V4-B didn't distort through 2 15s, then it's not the fault of the V4-B that a single 15 can't handle its particular frequency range.

What ever it is, I still classify the V4B as an amp that doesn't always play well with others. Some guys swear by 'em, Harley/Pete for instance. I think that most of those folks are putting them through sealed 4 or 8 x 10's though. I'm sure that there are cab's based on 15's that will work. In my case cabs that sounded good with other heads didn't with the V4B. So cab issue ? amp issue ? maybe just a bad pairing.

[robbysturgis]

Try this Fender Bassman 400. Mines an older model, but has never failed.

[mudbean]

Originally Posted by robbysturgis

Try this Fender Bassman 400. Mines an older model, but has never failed.

How much does THAT weigh?!?

mud

[broadcaster]

Originally Posted by Dave W

It's still a cab issue. If the V4-B didn't distort through 2 15s, then it's not the fault of the V4-B that a single 15 can't handle its particular frequency range.

The V4B got louder before distortion through the 2x15" because of twice the surface area of the 1x15" cab. The original poster wants loud bass from a 1x15" cab, not a 2x15". Plus the V4B and a 2x15" cab are heavy stuff to lug around. At 100 watts, the V4B just doesnt have enough headroom for most apps. One can get loud and clean at less then half that weight with a powerful SS head and a 1x15" cab.

[robbysturgis]

Originally Posted by mudbean

How much does THAT weigh?!?

mud

oh, about 85 lbs...but worth every penny.

They do have a head version.

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by broadcaster

...At 100 watts, the V4B just doesnt have enough headroom for most apps...

That's what I said in my first post in this thread!

[marshman]

Well, I have a nice Eden Nemesis 200w 2x10 combo that could probably do most of the gigs I've played, but I've always doubleed up on cabs just to be sure. I like the sound spread, too, of having a cab on both sides of the stage.

Back in my youth, in a gigging redneck southern rock band, I used at least 400 watts, bi-amped into a 2x10/1x18 cab setup that had awesome pant-flap.

My tube amp is due back fron the shop any day now, a 70's vintage 100 watter, that could hang with my heavy-handed Bonham/Appice influenced drummer through a very loud Carvin 4x10 cab.

Too many options these days, aren't there?

[MtJam]

I alternate between an Ampeg SVT with 610 cabinet and an Eden 550 with Genz-Benz NEO 212 cabinet. I started many years ago with a Peavey TNT 130. It was pretty heavy and awkward to move, but it did suffice for most smaller gigs. These days, I would want at least 400 watts solid state for any gigs I do, or the SVT tube power. But, oh, my aching back! I would think 2 15's or 2 12's would do nicely for you. As others have said, I also experienced distortion with my V4B, even with multiple cabs. Nice amp, though; just not enough umph for me.