Why So Many Rics On Ebay Lately?

[Oster]

4000 series basses are my dream bass so for years now I've checked out ebay to see what was selling.

It seems that in the last year or so there's suddenly a lot more 4001 and 4003 basses (many with 'buy it now') than there ever were.

Anyone else notice this?

[Telenator]

Ric doubled their prices recently and it has created a bit of a sell-off in the used market. People are getting alot more for their used Rics while those wishing to buy one can get it used for a lot less than new.

[Dave W]

Doubled? No. They've increased list prices about 50% over the last 3 or 4 years after not increasing at all for many years. And even with expansion, they've been so far behind that dealers are offering them at or near list instead of the 30-35% discounts you used to be able to get at a lot of places. In turn, that has increased the used prices, which motivates more people to sell.

[FirstBassman]

I think Dave W covered most of the points correctly.

There are a couple of other factors though at work here too.

For one example, there is a dealer named Olivia's Vintage. They buy used RIC stuff on eBay and then immediately turn them around again for sale.
So, in the past, if a RIC was bought on eBay, it was purchased by a player (or collector perhaps) but then it would not appear in circulation again (well, not for a while anyway). Now, roughly, every RIC instrument on the 'bay will appear twice.

There are a couple of other things going on with RICs and eBay which I don't wish to go into here. (One can research and find out.)

[robt57]

Originally Posted by FirstBassman

There are a couple of other things going on with RICs and eBay which I don't wish to go into here. (One can research and find out.)

Seems the perfect place to me...

Or is it a case of politics of a sort ??

[Oster]

Okay so it's not just me.

[FirstBassman]

Originally Posted by robt57

Seems the perfect place to me...

Or is it a case of politics of a sort ??

Sorry.
I know that seems like a bit of a tease.
But there are possibly potential legal issue type things.
And I'd rather not be the person to comment in public on such matters since I'm not privy to all (or even most) of the facts and issues at hand.

Okay so it's not just me.

Nope, not just you.

[Dave W]

I don't think legal issues have anything to do with it. RIC is very zealous about protecting its trademarks, keeping copies off the market and even going after private sellers of older Rick copies. But that's been going on for years, long before the recent increases.

[BAW4742]

I bought a new 360 last year. Ordered it in April and didn't receive it until October. The average wait time was about 6 to 9 months for many of their models and for some up to 24 months.

While I was waiting for it I looked every where to get one sooner. A lot of the new Rics on E-bay had some line like "why wait for months - get your new Ric here and now" and you paid a premium for not waiting. I saw some models that were BIN listed for $1,000 more than I paid for mine. For that kinda of money I could wait.

So I figured that some stores were ordering the Rics and putting right up on E-bay as soon as they came in.

That was my take on the new stuff. I'm not really sure about vintage Rics on E-bay. I didn't really look at those.

Oh yeah - I do love my new 360.

[Telenator]

I bought a new 360 a couple years ago from Zzounds for $1100. The list price is now $2499. Since alot of these are now selling near list price, I'd have to assume you might get one for $2200. That's "double the price in my book."

[CharlieO]

Originally Posted by Telenator

I bought a new 360 a couple years ago from Zzounds for $1100. The list price is now $2499. Since alot of these are now selling near list price, I'd have to assume you might get one for $2200. That's "double the price in my book."

The market has doubled the price for Rickenbacker guitars. Rickenbacker hasn't, contrary to what you suggested in your first post.

By the way, I'm really disappointed that my Rickenbacker 330 that I bought new in early 2007 is probably only worth 50 percent more than I paid for it.

[David Barnett]

Some guys were buying up 12 or more Rics from Musician's Friend at a time, then turning them on eBay for a tidy profit when they finally arrived. I think Ric pressured MF into finally stopping that by limiting the number of instruments you can buy at one time.

If I understand correctly, Ric warrantys are non-transferable, and Ric won't honor the warranty of these guitars even though they're new.

[Oster]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Some guys were buying up 12 or more Rics from Musician's Friend at a time, then turning them on eBay for a tidy profit when they finally arrived. I think Ric pressured MF into finally stopping that by limiting the number of instruments you can buy at one time.

If I understand correctly, Ric warrantys are non-transferable, and Ric won't honor the warranty of these guitars even though they're new.

That's pretty much what I suspected.

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

If I understand correctly, Ric warrantys are non-transferable, and Ric won't honor the warranty of these guitars even though they're new.

You understand correctly. Same is true of Fender guitars (not amps) and Gibson.

[gtrman911]

Originally Posted by Telenator

I bought a new 360 a couple years ago from Zzounds for $1100. The list price is now $2499. Since alot of these are now selling near list price, I'd have to assume you might get one for $2200. That's "double the price in my book."

yea...i guess if you actually do the math

a lot of things are more expensive when you actually do the math instead of believing all the salespitches/spinning

reality bites, .......when you care to acknowledge it.

[Telenator]

They're nicely made guitars. Some are actually beautiful.

[Oster]

Originally Posted by Telenator

They're nicely made guitars. Some are actually beautiful.

They sure are! One of a kind.

[Telenator]

I like mine better though! You should try a 360 that has been ergonomically corrected. T'is a beautiful thing! I was offered a lot of money for one of my "Rickenrockers" but turned it down. It's too much fun to play not to mention, I never sell the guitars I build.

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by gtrman911

yea...i guess if you actually do the math

a lot of things are more expensive when you actually do the math instead of believing all the salespitches/spinning

reality bites, .......when you care to acknowledge it.

All right, then, lets' do the math, since Bob (Telenator) said "Ric doubled their prices recently..":

Rick 4003: $1529 list (Jan 1 1998 price list)
Rick 4003: $2159 list (Dec 13 2007 price list)

Now, my calculator says that's a 41% price increase over 10 years. Does that sound doubled recently to you?

And if you're willing to wait and you know the right authorized dealer, you can still get 30% off list. Even more if it's a store you've bought from before.

[Telenator]

You're right. From what I've seen people are "paying" twice as much now but that is not the policy handed down from Ric. All in all, a 360 was a real deal at $1100 when you consider the craftsmanship that goes into them. At $2200, I'm not so sure. There are a lot more options available in that price range that in my opinion are better guitars.

[Oster]

Nothing beats Rickenbacker - a real Rickenbacker. I don't care about ergonomics. The only concession to ergonomics my '61 Harmony Rocket has is a cuttaway so I can play up the neck!

I've heard the same complaint about old Gretsches (how the bridges don't line up, the binding is rough, whatever...). My dream Gretsch isn't Fender or Japanese made, it's an old Brooklyn booze and smoke soaked songmaker. I'll know it when I see it!

Rickenbacker's designs predate fretboard pyrotechnics and generally don't appeal to the precision players out there anyway. They have the vibe and I don't think they're overpriced at all. Out of my range personally but maybe one day.

...Not from ebay though.

[David Barnett]

There are some ergonomic issues with Rics that the factory won't address. First of all, the bridges are not mounted in the right spot, you'll see a lot of Rics with all the adjustable bridge saddles screwed as far back as they'll go. The whole assembly needs to be moved farther away from the nut, they got the math wrong. There are some luthiers who are Ric specialists who know how to fix this though.

Secondly the string spacing on the 12-string models is wack. All the strings are too close together, and the pairs are spaced too widely. It makes the neck feel like a solid wall of strings. Some of them feel more like a cheese slicer than a guitar. This is also something that some Ric specialists know how to fix.

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by Telenator

You're right. From what I've seen people are "paying" twice as much now but that is not the policy handed down from Ric. All in all, a 360 was a real deal at $1100 when you consider the craftsmanship that goes into them. At $2200, I'm not so sure. There are a lot more options available in that price range that in my opinion are better guitars.

Agreed (not that I have $2200 to spend).

They have a certain sound and a certain style that appeals. But that only goes so far.

[Oster]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

There are some ergonomic issues with Rics that the factory won't address. First of all, the bridges are not mounted in the right spot, you'll see a lot of Rics with all the adjustable bridge saddles screwed as far back as they'll go. The whole assembly needs to be moved farther away from the nut, they got the math wrong. There are some luthiers who are Ric specialists who know how to fix this though.

Secondly the string spacing on the 12-string models is wack. All the strings are too close together, and the pairs are spaced too widely. It makes the neck feel like a solid wall of strings. Some of them feel more like a cheese slicer than a guitar. This is also something that some Ric specialists know how to fix.

Not trying to be argumentative but why would the factory address these issues? When did they come to light and who complained about them? Roger McGuinn? Chris Squire? Paul McCartney?

I was in the market for a new bass a few years back and my trusted local shop did their best to dissuade me from even liking Rickenbacker basses on account of the bridge not being straight (different problem from the one you mention). I didn't really listen to him. Price - then as now - was the only issue keeping me from getting a Ric.

My point earlier (didn't really state it as such re Gretsch, Harmony) was that most guitars - make that all guitars - have some sort of problem or another depending on who's playing.