Guitarist guitar problem, what to do??

[marc13]

Originally Posted by Telenator

Agreed.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the nut is in the wrong place and needs to be compensated. Not many luthiers recognize, or do that kind of work.

So it's starting to sound already like the nut is the culprit.....I'm going to go with him to the shop, and hopefully we can get this ironed out, I'd love for him to keep using it, but not if it means sacrificing the sound of the band and our professionalism for it....

[TeleTim911]

as an aside, every gigging guitarist needs to carry two guitars with him to gigs...the #1 and a backup. I've never gone to a gig with just one guitar. You just never know what can happen.

Good luck in your future, sounds like you're on the right path.

[Old Cane]

I did 20+ years on the road with one guitar so not sure why it's needed. If you want to go for it. I'd be more likely to carry a spare amp.

Marc, if George is still over at Shiloh he would probably be the closest. I sent my number so let me know if I can help.

[Frontier9]

marc13, before you go see a luthier, check to see if the nuts on the tuners are tight. I received a brand new Gretsch guitar a few years ago that had loose tuner nuts and, well... you can guess that it wouldn't stay in tune for more than 30 seconds until I located the problem.

[Jakedog]

There is no tuning fix for the Epi more than likely. My guess- It's not the nut, or the hardware. It's a combination of a cheap guitar and an agressive player.

Epi necks are not the most stable. Especially the semi hollows. My experience, if you hit a chord, and really manhandle the neck agressively you'll get almost a whammy bar effect, and it will wreck the tuning frequently and easily.

My biggest beef with every offshore semi hollow I have ever played is the "rubber neck" factor. I'm dealing with it right now with the other guitarist in my original project. He has a dot, and an Ibanez Artcore. He has this exact same problem with both of them. I got him to switch them out. he is now using his wife's Am. Std. tele and things are much more solid. Not perfect, but much more solid. He has a tendency to lean down on the neck hard, or pull it hard backward while he's singing. He also has a very agressive left hand "vibrato".

My guitars are set up beyond perfectly. The nut are perfect, the hardware is quality, and I can play a full night with any of them, including HUGE bends, with very few if any tuning issues. He can knock one of my guitars out of tune in one song. And he only plays rhythm. I can play his tele for a song with no issues. I can play one of his chinese semis for one song, and if I'm careful and watch what I'm doing, have almost no issue.

You put an Epi semi hollow in the hands of a really agressive neck handler, and you will always have tuning issues. No matter what you do to the guitar.

[Old Cane]

You know, Jake brings up a duh kind of point. Does he have this problem with every guitar? If someone else plays his guitar is it in tune? I've been out of teaching for so long I tend to forget about guys with gorilla technique. Death-grip players never play in tune.

[Radspin]

YMMV but in general I find that FOR ME guitars with bolt on maple necks stay more in tune than those with set mahogany necks. I play with a relatively light touch also. I'll leave it to the builders and experts to speculate or explain why this is.

[bigmuff113]

CL ad. Trade his Sheraton for a Japanese reissue

[Coop47]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

There is no tuning fix for the Epi more than likely. My guess- It's not the nut, or the hardware. It's a combination of a cheap guitar and an agressive player.

Epi necks are not the most stable. Especially the semi hollows. My experience, if you hit a chord, and really manhandle the neck agressively you'll get almost a whammy bar effect, and it will wreck the tuning frequently and easily.

My biggest beef with every offshore semi hollow I have ever played is the "rubber neck" factor. I'm dealing with it right now with the other guitarist in my original project. He has a dot, and an Ibanez Artcore. He has this exact same problem with both of them.

You put an Epi semi hollow in the hands of a really agressive neck handler, and you will always have tuning issues. No matter what you do to the guitar.

I haven't played enough semi-hollows to say it as definitively, but my experience supports this. I love my Epi Sheraton, but I need to make a conscious effort to play with a lighter touch or else I have intonation problems. It's been set up properly, and sound fantastic as long as I'm not gripping too hard. I usually play Fenders, so I don't know if it's the neck or scale or what, but it's an issue.

[jondanger]

Although I have bookoo respect for Jakedog and his extensive guitar knowledge, I must respectfully disagree that a Sherry can't stay in tune. I have a Korean Sheraton, and was having tuning problems with it. I knew the nut had been replaced when I bought it, so I got some Grovers to throw on there. Now it stays in tune nicely. Not as good as my Tele, but definitely manageable. I'm not wrenching the neck all over the place though. The nut may be a cheaper fix depending on where you go, but you should be able to find a decent set of replacement tuners for less than $50 and install them yourself if you have any experience whatsoever with a drill.

[guitarbiker]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

You know, Jake brings up a duh kind of point. Does he have this problem with every guitar? If someone else plays his guitar is it in tune? I've been out of teaching for so long I tend to forget about guys with gorilla technique. Death-grip players never play in tune.

Gorilla grip was my first thought. And rubber neck. Probably any guitar he plays will have the same tuning issues.

[rickym]

The nut. Interesting how that's what the majority here says it is but the shop he's sent it to couldn't figure it out.

I had to say it right out to my band's 2nd guitarist. His '68 Tele sucked at staying in tune. He went ahead & replaced the nut (non-orig) & now it's sounding sweeter. Now to work on his dynamics!

[Jagg76]

Originally Posted by swellsmd

I'm with the rest. Look at the nut,the relief. On that note (no pun) is the guitar set up for 11's or 12's? Or was it set up for 9s and he put 11 or 12 on it. Or if he is that aggressive he needs something more stout to bang on.

Maybe he's a drummer trapped in guitar player's body...?

-Jagg

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by jondanger

Although I have bookoo respect for Jakedog and his extensive guitar knowledge, I must respectfully disagree that a Sherry can't stay in tune. I have a Korean Sheraton, and was having tuning problems with it. I knew the nut had been replaced when I bought it, so I got some Grovers to throw on there. Now it stays in tune nicely. Not as good as my Tele, but definitely manageable. I'm not wrenching the neck all over the place though. The nut may be a cheaper fix depending on where you go, but you should be able to find a decent set of replacement tuners for less than $50 and install them yourself if you have any experience whatsoever with a drill.

I never said a Sheraton can't stay in tune. I said if you manhandle the doo-doo out of that neck it's not gonna stay in tune. No matter what you do with the tuners and nut. I don't know if it's the neck joint on these imported semis, the way the necks are cut, or the wood they are using, but if you play correctly, they can be setup to work passably. If you manhandle 'em, the necks can't handle it. They are like giant wooden whammy bars.

[Jakedog]

Another possible issue somebody should probably check-

How does he string his guitar? It floors me how many gigging guitarists employ VERY questionable stringing techniques, that can often result in tuning issues.

[waparker4]

Sounds like either you need to be in charge of his setups and restringing his guitar, or he needs a guitar made to withstand his gorilla-like nature, or he should take up percussion.

[Old Cane]

Really it sounds like we just need to take a look at it before everbody does their thousand mile diagnosis. I think we're going to get together early next week.

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

Really it sounds like we just need to take a look at it before everbody does their thousand mile diagnosis. I think we're going to get together early next week.

Cool. But I think we should have a preliminary meeting before the meeting to get a working headcount. We're gonna need to know how much pizza and beer to round up.

[Old Cane]

I'm not gonna be in charge of that again.

[KS tele pickr]

I was having quite a bit of trouble keeping my MIM telecaster (purchased used off ebay) in tune and recently replaced the nut with a Tusc XL (graphite impregnated + string slots were cut reasonably well for my string guage). This took care of about 90% of my problem. I did it myself and for a few $$ I went from wanting to give away the guitar to now having a good working instrument. I probably will take into a shop for a final setup and tweaking at some time but I'm good for now. I did spend about $5 more to get the vintage white nut (aged look) over the standard "bright" white one.