Band Learning Too Slooowly?

[tonyp145]

Hi folks, it's reality check time. I've got a group that has been rehearsing since early January and we just don't seem to be developing a repertoire very quickly. At this point we've gone over about 20 songs, but have really dug in on about 10 and most of those are okay, but barely gig-ready.

We played a 6-song set at a high school a couple of weeks back and that went over okay I guess. But we spent weeks rehearsing those 6 songs and they still weren't tight. We're talking Mustang Sally, I Feel Good and Knock on Wood here folks. Not exactly complicated material.

We're a 3-piece band (drums, bass, guitar) plus a female singer. The main problem is the bass player doesn't seem to practice between rehearsals and he kind of spaces out and loses his place in songs. Drummer and bass player are both primarily jazz musicians trying to play rock because they think it will lead to paying gigs. They don't know the standard bar band repertoire and, while the drummer is decent, he and I aren't strong enough to carry this bass player. To complicate things the drummer and bassist are friends so I can't suggest we dump the bass guy.

I'm also realizing that while I'm a solid all-around player, I'm an ensemble guy and not a killer lead player, so the 3-piece format is probably not ideal for me, but the drummer doesn't want to expand because he says it's just another mouth to feed. The only reason I haven't called it a day with this group yet is that the drummer and I are friends and I hate to disappoint him.

I'm not really looking for a lot of advice here, I know 10 shaky songs in 3 months of rehearsing is pretty bad, but I would like to hear other people's experiences with getting a start-up band off the ground. How long does it usually take you to knock a couple of decent sets together?

Anyway, sorry for the long post, I previously posted about this group here if anybody is interested:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/band-wago...epertoire.html

Thanks!

[middy]

They've got to rehearse and practice more, or it's not going to work.

A "jazz" bass player can't pick up Mustang Sally after playing through it once? He's not taking the gig seriously.

"These are simple songs, man. You haven't nailed them yet? We'll have to get someone else who's interested in the material."

Zappa or James Brown would give a new guy maybe a week to nail 20 songs. Then again, they were paying good money, and they rehearsed 30+ hours a week...

[Big_Bend]

I've been in a band situation before where after 6 months we could barely play a dozen songs. At that point it became pretty obvious that things would not get better, and changes had to be made.

I'm now in a band where we learned about 40 songs in 6 months and started gigging regularly. You just have to be willing to do the work, and surround yourself with people who are also going to work hard and show up prepared. That does not seem to be the case here with your band, and sadly I don't think its going to improve since you can't get a new bass player and rhythm guitarist.

Good luck man...

[stax]

I think rehearsals should be for tightening stuff up working out endings etc, not for learning songs, most of this this should be done alone,listening to the set in the car on the way to work, practicing your parts whenever you have time etc.
If I was in your position I would feel like I'm wasting my time or more correctly other people are wasting my time.

[6stringelectric]

I agree, it sounds to me like the Bass player is phoning it in.

He maybe thinks the songs are too easy, and don't require any effort on his part? I've run into players like that before.

In any case, I would talk to the drummer about it. Since he's friends with the guy, maybe he can talk to him about it.

If it's not resolvable that way, I would look for some other players who really are interested in playing the same kind of music.

[tonyp145]

Originally Posted by middy

A "jazz" bass player can't pick up Mustang Sally after playing through it once? He's not taking the gig seriously.

My favorite was when he was walking the line so much he didn't make it back to the root on a strong 1. I asked him about it and he explained he was trying to cover the horn parts. I told him to just try to cover the bass part.

PS we rehearse once a week, but there are many weeks (like this one) where something came up for somebody and rehearsal was canceled. I was planning to start rehearsal today with a band meeting to discuss the situation, guess it will have to wait until next week...

[plymman]

I remember passing an audition with a band on Wednesday and playing a 40 minute improv set two days later on the Friday night. I've also been in a band where we had nothing fruitful after 2 months of rehearsal. I was bass player at the time and I've never played in a covers band so ymmv but....

I believe chemistry is essential, if you don't gel together or one member is covering for another then I don't think it'll ever work without a long arduous slog.

[Mid Life Crisis]

Originally Posted by stax

I think rehearsals should be for tightening stuff up working out endings etc, not for learning songs, most of this this should be done alone,listening to the set in the car on the way to work, practicing your parts whenever you have time etc.
If I was in your position I would feel like I'm wasting my time or more correctly other people are wasting my time.

This. We've just been through all this with our drummer and - fingers crossed - he is now doing something about it. Unless someone's a seasoned pro who can pick things up instantly then you can't simply switch off from the minute you pack up after rehearsal until you turn up the following week.

[SamClemons]

I used to go sit in and play in bands with no practice. I would expect to nail 10 songs in a week. Sounds like the bass player is pretty weak. Bass player nails a band together, especially a 3 piece, which I played in for years. Bass player has got to put out, especially in a 3 piece band.

Making good recordings of all the songs to practice with during the week always worked well for me.

[paul74]

I'm currently rehearsing a trio, singing as well as playing lead. My last band I was a sideman, singing lead on some tunes, with a acoustic rhythm guitarist. What I've found is it takes a few weeks to work out how bass and guitar fit together. Also, missing weeks rehearsing sets you back for 2 weeks but sometimes it's unavoidable. If they're just wanting to do it for well paid gigs it needs work, a little patience but more than that you all need to be committed and enthusiastic. Find out how into it they are and be honest. Best do it now rather than wait another three months, though.

[Skub]

Originally Posted by tonyp145

Hi folks, it's reality check time. I've got a group that has been rehearsing since early January and we just don't seem to be developing a repertoire very quickly. At this point we've gone over about 20 songs, but have really dug in on about 10 and most of those are okay, but barely gig-ready.

We played a 6-song set at a high school a couple of weeks back and that went over okay I guess. But we spent weeks rehearsing those 6 songs and they still weren't tight. We're talking Mustang Sally, I Feel Good and Knock on Wood here folks. Not exactly complicated material.

We're a 3-piece band (drums, bass, guitar) plus a female singer. The main problem is the bass player doesn't seem to practice between rehearsals and he kind of spaces out and loses his place in songs. Drummer and bass player are both primarily jazz musicians trying to play rock because they think it will lead to paying gigs. They don't know the standard bar band repertoire and, while the drummer is decent, he and I aren't strong enough to carry this bass player. To complicate things the drummer and bassist are friends so I can't suggest we dump the bass guy.

I'm also realizing that while I'm a solid all-around player, I'm an ensemble guy and not a killer lead player, so the 3-piece format is probably not ideal for me, but the drummer doesn't want to expand because he says it's just another mouth to feed. The only reason I haven't called it a day with this group yet is that the drummer and I are friends and I hate to disappoint him.

I'm not really looking for a lot of advice here, I know 10 shaky songs in 3 months of rehearsing is pretty bad, but I would like to hear other people's experiences with getting a start-up band off the ground. How long does it usually take you to knock a couple of decent sets together?

Anyway, sorry for the long post, I previously posted about this group here if anybody is interested:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/band-wago...epertoire.html

Thanks!

As a working band this is how it works for us.

I'll get a phone call/email/text stating,we are doing a certain song and this is the key. The other band members get the same message.

We individually learn our place in the song and then meet in the keyboard player's little studio to make sure we fit together and to iron out any wrinkles or differences of opinion.

The song is used next time out.

This works really well when you have a bunch of people who enjoy what they do and have the level of commitment necessary. Anyone dragging their arse like a dog with worms shows they don't have the dedication regardless of talent. I've not often seen this fixable

You can't make a band work without equal input from all the concerned parties,talk openly and air exactly how you feel,you are all adults and it's pointless tip-toeing around feelings like they are delicate children.As it is,the situation is going nowhere.

[TG]

If someone joins a band there is an implied responsibility that they will fulfill their 'duties', ie, the reason they are there at all.
If they don't at least try to do that then the bottom line is...they shouldn't be there.

To be blunt...you are wasting your time. Or rather, they are wasting your time.

Last summer the band that I'd been rehearsing and gigging with for over a year had a big wedding gig booked. The bass player got us the gig since he was in the jazz quartet that was doing the 'cocktails' music in the afternoon.

2 weeks before the gig the drummer said he couldn't do it due to a family issue.
OK...we found someone to fill in.

Then the keyboard player pulled out. Found some other band that provided him with free drinks apparently...so good riddance, as far as I'm concerned.

Then the singer/frontman called and bailed on us. Made loads of excuses, but I'm pretty certain he was just insecure about being able to cut it at such a big gig. This was a huge hotel/hundreds of guests/12 course dinner sort of gig.
Big money....so big expectations.

That left me, the new drummer (who's wife had just left him and whose confidence was on a knife's edge) and the poor bass player who, since he'd be there in the afternoon, wouldn't be able to hide from letting them down...and as he's a friend I was damned if I'd let him down.
Still can't believe the other guys could do that to someone they knew as a friend.
I doubt I'll ever speak to them again...

Luckily I'd been talking about putting together a duo with a guy who is a pretty good singer so I asked him if he'd be up to it and he said OK, even though he'd never been in a band before.

So there we were with a new band and 2 weeks to prepare for a huge gig. And as I'd been in wedding bands before I became the default band manager...and experience showed me that we had to be ready for anything, depending on the way the crowd responded.

2 weeks later we had 70 songs ready. Did the gig and it went OK. Luckily they were relaxed and OK with anything and not the demanding crowd you can get at some rural Irish weddings.

So I've got a bit of a bee in my bonnet about people joining bands and then doing FA and/or letting down the rest of the band. It's inconsiderate and a waste of time.

I'd write out a list of songs and bluntly tell them that if everyone hasn't got them all ready for the next practice then you're all wasting your time.




Incidentally, our 4 piece from the wedding fiasco is still going and has morphed into a low-gear/low-volume outfit that's doing pretty well locally.

Here are some poorly videoed clips we put on YouTube.

[tonyp145]

Originally Posted by SamClemons

Making good recordings of all the songs to practice with during the week always worked well for me.

Good recordings? I burned CDs of all the songs and typed up lyric/chord lead sheets for every song in this format:

C
Mustang Sally, think you better slow your Mustang down,
F
Mustang Sally, etc.


He has trouble following those charts, WTF? Anyway, I don't want to beat a dead horse, I'll set up a time to talk to my pal the drummer and see what we can work out. Thanks for the input guys, I've played guitar for over 30 years, but I have limited experience with this type of band.

A few years ago I joined a group with the same format as this one playing largely the same repertoire. I was the bass player. We played a 3 hour gig with a fill-in guitarist we'd only rehearsed with twice, there were a few glitches but no train wrecks because the drummer and I knew the material cold and could just power our way through it. The crowd loved it and I had a blast so I know a band can be brought up to speed a lot faster than this, it's just always good to do a little group therapy right?

[sax4blues]

I think amateur trios are very limited unless the guitar player is fantastic. I'm not sure what the drummer means by mouth to feed? My guess is this is not a money making operation.

As for how fast/slow you guys are getting tight. People don't change. The band you have is the band you have, don't expect anything different from this line up. So be careful putting pressure on other members because everybody will just get more miserable and then probably quit, which may or may not be a better situation.

[chulaivet1966]

Originally Posted by tonyp145

The main problem is the bass player doesn't seem to practice between rehearsals

IMO....and as stated by someone else, practicing on your own between rehearsals is an imperative for all members to progress as a band.
If a band member doesn't get this then they will be a very weak link in attitude and band progress.

That's my take on it....carry on.

[D_Schief]

Originally Posted by sax4blues

People don't change. The band you have is the band you have, don't expect anything different from this line up.

There's the most profound advice, I've heard yet. It's easy (and common) to want more out of folks, but by the first couple of practices, I think you really know what kind of band you've got and exactly what it's likely potential is going to be. If a rythmn section can't lock in on a groove for Mustang Sally or a bass player can't find "1" or "I" right away, I'm sorry, it's not going to happen. Ever.

[middy]

Originally Posted by tonyp145

My favorite was when he was walking the line so much he didn't make it back to the root on a strong 1. I asked him about it and he explained he was trying to cover the horn parts. I told him to just try to cover the bass part.

You don't walk the bass line of a simple rocker like mustang sally... Without that specific bass line, it's a different song. The groove is the whole point of a song like that.

I don't like playing with people on an ego trip who overplay. I just won't do it anymore.

[Mid Life Crisis]

Originally Posted by chulaivet1966

IMO....and as stated by someone else, practicing on your own between rehearsals is an imperative for all members to progress as a band.
If a band member doesn't get this then they will be a very weak link in attitude and band progress.

That's my take on it....carry on.

Yep...a band will only ever sound as good as its weakest member.

[GigsbyBoyUK]

We practice songs weekly at home, low volumes until I am confident the bass player knows his part. Then we hit the practice space and practice at electric volumes. Whatever the case, in the nine months we played weekly apart from taking a holiday break now and again. Now we have 50+ songs and gig quite a bit we maybe do three or four weeks of weekly practice, then take a break for two or three weeks and then pick up the practice again.

(Often nowadays it's not so much 'practice' as 'let's fool around to come up with new arrangements and better endings etc. to stop us getting stale'.)

My bass player is great but he has a busy job (he gets home pretty late most evenings) and is a loving family man who devotes time to his kids at weekends. So his time is more limited than mine. I don't like the fact that he doesn't practice at home but that's how it is. So we practice together as much as it takes him to really nail his part. In a way, it's no big deal. We either play together at home or in low-cost practice spaces and it's always fun. For me, it just means that three hours a week I am playing with the others instead of on my own so it doesn't really mean I am sending any extra time on it.

However since we started the band he needs less and less time to get his stuff together and it's now OK. Mainly, the issues was that style of music we play was something he wasn't familiar with at first. Now that we've been doing it a while he is much better able to work out a part quickly drawing on what he has picked up since we formed.

He is a great player once he knows his part, and a real asset to the band, and that learning process is now much quicker and easier for him so I am glad we stuck with him.

So you've been together since January...if you have been practicing once a week since then, well maybe this is getting to be a seriously bad situation and you should have more than ten songs by now. If you have been practicing together maybe every two or three weeks since then, well maybe try ramping it up to weekly for a month and see if things improve? If it doesn't then maybe it is time to revisit what you are all doing.

Sure, seasoned players on here come up with the 'we never practice because people know their parts' stuff. Well that's great for them. But it doesn't mean it's the only way. I love being in my band and we kick ass...it's just that we do need to practice as a band every week and that' fine with me.

[bendecaster]

I agree that you must learn your parts on your own, between practices. If you have issues with that, call one of your bandmates for assistance. Our band only rehearses to add new stuff. Basically intros & endings, but that is what works for us, as we've been playing with this line up for over six years, so we definitely have serious chemistry. Heck, I've played with the drummer since '92. If one of my mates asked me for some extra time/help, it shows their into this and want to be tighter. I'm very OK with that.

When we got together as a band, we had three hour-long sets together and were ready to gig in two months.

Tony, what you are feeling is correct. This is taking way too long. Do yourself a favor and meet with your bandmates and find out where they stand. Maybe they just want to dink around and be a garage-jam band? If so, move on!