The Train Wreck that is American Idol - Page 3

tboy · February 27th, 2008, 11:10 AM

The British opera guy. Wow! Pipes! Won't happen here.

superchicken_VI · February 27th, 2008, 11:44 AM

I'm amazed at the venom spewed over this. It's just a TV show and a few platinum and gold albums, not to mention an Oscar. It beats the heck out of gangsta rap or another show about some ditz sleeping her way across California. I have more disdain for people like Stern who had people voting for Sanjaya last year and truly keeping good singers from being heard again.

I actually enjoy the concept of the show, because it is about rags-to-riches. Even though these people might not be signing the best deals in the music business, I can't imagine that any of the top 24 from any season would be better off in life had they not made the show.

And as for the "this is just an advertising medium" argument, of course it is!! What network show isn't? Heck, even the radar screen for Dutch Harbor on the Deadliest Catch is sponsored by friggin' Lexus!!

geddins · February 27th, 2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tboy

Sure, the show has spun out a few bland, vanilla singing careers, but the number of positions for successful recording artists is limited by nature, and I think it's a travesty that those precious few spots are being hijacked by mediocre popularity contest winners at the expense of the new Dylans and Hendrixes, who no longer seem to have a voice with the major labels. Those huge companies, who still, alone have the resources to develop and deliver truly great musical talent to the masses, but are too occupied these days with seeking out the next "manufactured" star who can guarantee 2 million units on the first release. AI is certainly not the problem's root, but it sure excretes a lot of fertilizer.

To each his own, but I don't think Carrie Underwood would be what I describe as "vanilla"....nor Taylor Hicks for that matter (he's not my cup of tea, but he ain't "vanilla"). And your notion about as you say those precious few spots are being hijacked by mediocre popularity contest winners at the expense of the new Dylans and Hendrixes, who no longer seem to have a voice with the major labels. is completely lost on me. Since when did "Dylans and Hendrixes" EVER have a voice with the major labels? Both of those guys were about as "anti-establishment" as you can get.

AI brings a lot of guys to the Americas TV sets that would otherwise NEVER have the opportunity...and while a lot of it is drivel, the Daughtrys, Underwoods, Hicks, et al make it worthwhile IMO.

Joisey · February 27th, 2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superchicken_VI

I have more disdain for people like Stern who had people voting for Sanjaya last year and truly keeping good singers from being heard again.

Ya rolls the dice ya takes your chances. I bet not one of those singers every carried a twin reverb.

tboy · February 27th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geddins

Since when did "Dylans and Hendrixes" EVER have a voice with the major labels? Both of those guys were about as "anti-establishment" as you can get.

Dylan and Hendrix WERE huge celebrities in their day. So was Velvet Underground, Pink Floyd, Neil Young, Roxy Music, etc... And as anti-establishment as it gets. That's my point.

There was a time when the mission of huge recording companies was to find unique and aesthetic musical artists, wherever and whatever they were, and nurture that talent through the 2 or 3 start up albums that it took to develop a following within a highly discriminating music-buying public. And I'm talking about a lot of the artists who frequent this forum! I'd argue that the wisdom of this approach is confirmed in retrospect.

AI represents the opposite. Manufacture, through TV, an instant celebrity who is capable of generating 2 million sales on the first release, then move on to the next 15 minute share segment, save an occasional Christmas release. Andy Warhol saw this coming long ago.

AI is not "just a TV show." It is one of the biggest prime time shows ever. And it represents where the big money in the music biz is today. You guys are guitar players, for god sake! With all due respect, is this what you want in today's big music business? Guitar is the foundation of where rock n roll came from. AI ignores the guitar. Speak for your TELE!

I teach mass media studies at college level, and I instruct two level of thought on this. 1, no one has the right to deny the public what it demands, but 2, isn't it in our best interest to question how that demand arises and who really benefits from that demand?

Skully · February 27th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Ya rolls the dice ya takes your chances. I bet not one of those singers every carried a twin reverb.

Well, last night one contestant did do a pretty damn good version of Free's "All Right Now" playing a Les Paul through a Marshall stack.

Skully · February 27th, 2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by geddins
Since when did "Dylans and Hendrixes" EVER have a voice with the major labels? Both of those guys were about as "anti-establishment" as you can get.

Dylan and Hendrix WERE huge celebrities in their day. So was Velvet Underground, Pink Floyd, Neil Young, Roxy Music, etc... And as anti-establishment as it gets. That's my point.

The Velvet Underground? I don't think so. Maybe inside the factory and certain New York clubs. Roxy Music? Not really. I mean, you wouldn't be stoned to death for calling Roxy Music celebrities, but they weren't "huge" by any stretch of the imagination.

Quote:

I teach mass media studies at college level, and I instruct two level of thought on this...

Hey... Are you familiar with that scene in "Annie Hall" where they're waiting in line at the movies?

Joisey · February 27th, 2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skully

Well, last night one contestent did do a pretty damn good version of Free's "All Right Now" playing a Les Paul through a Marshall stack.

LOL! That figures. My statement was more a jab at weakling thread in AmpCentral.

Howard Stern had the AI judges on his show in 2003. The summary is from MarksFriggin.

Quote:

Howard said he had 4 people who wanted to be judged so he brought in the first one, Christina. She was in recently claiming that they rejected her because she looks too ''ethnic.'' Christina sang a few lines and Simon told Howard that she's really not a good singer. Robin seems to think that she's not all that bad and she could perform in England. Paula said she doesn't agree with Simon about her not being a good singer. She said there were a lot of good singers who were rejected from the show. Randy said she was alright but not ''amazing.'' Randy also said she looks great. Christina said that there are some people interested in her but Simon told her that when people tell her that, they're probably just interested in getting into her pants.

Howard brought in Tim next. He also belted out a song for the judges. He sang ''Hero'' from the Spider-Man soundtrack. He's 30 years old so the judges told him that he's too old to be an ''American Idol.'' Simon said he was alright. Paula said he didn't have any projection. Randy said he was alright also. Howard then broke the news to them that his real name is Josey and he's the lead singer of the band Saliva who actually performed the song. Howard said that shows how little the judges actually know. Josey said they sold 8 million copies of that single. Josey said he's also gotten a few awards for the song. Howard thanked Josey for coming in to do that. He also gave him a plug for his album ''Back Into Your System'' which is out now.

tboy · February 27th, 2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skully

The Velvet Underground? I don't think so. Maybe inside the factory and certain New York clubs. Roxy Music? Not really. I mean, you wouldn't be stoned to death for calling Roxy Music celebrities, but they weren't "huge" by any stretch of the imagination.

Hey... Are you familiar with that scene in "Annie Hall" where they're waiting in line at the movies?

Yea, you got me. Roxy and Velvet were huge to me and all my friends, but certainly not Nancy Sinatra level. But Dylan and Hendrix. HUGE!! Newport Folk Fest and Woodstock attracted a few fans. Yea, I know. They were cleaning up when Hendrix played, but he eventually had a little success.

Annie Hall. HA HA HA!!!

I'll be the guy standing behind if you'll be Woody Allen.

Just trying to get folks riled up and thinking. That's usually a good thing, and can be at my expense, but that OK. Sometimes that bush you shake has a beehive in it. OUCH!

micpoc · February 27th, 2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tboy

Annie Hall. HA HA HA!!!

I'll be the guy standing behind if you'll be Woody Allen.

Wouldn't it be great if real life was like that?

tboy · February 27th, 2008, 02:14 PM

Hey Skully. Checked out out your site. Nice music. Call me crazy, but lots of Brian Ferry influence in there for me, but with a twist your own. I like!

"And now, Back to American Idol."

popthree · February 27th, 2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skully

Well, last night one contestent did do a pretty damn good version of Free's "All Right Now" playing a Les Paul through a Marshall stack.

i heard about that guy...apparently he's from Tulsa... weird.. i never heard of him before.. oh well, i guess i'm out of it.. i'm old and i carry a light amplifier

tweedtone · February 27th, 2008, 02:57 PM

Now, I've never watched the show but essentially, American Idol is professional-level karaoke, right...?

garytelecastor · February 27th, 2008, 03:01 PM

The thing to keep in mind is that the ultimate goal here is not to make a superstar but it is to make a tv show. You know that they pick people that they know will never win just so they have bodies to fill the air time.
This is total hype. It is based on the old national contests that took place for centuries in Europe. Ever see the Sound of Music? This is all about selling airtime and selling phone time. I really can only name 2-3 of the winners of this thing since it has been on the air.

Skully · February 27th, 2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Annie Hall. HA HA HA!!! I'll be the guy standing behind if you'll be Woody Allen.

I'm too tall and Aryan-looking to do a convincing Woody, but I'll give it a shot.

Quote:

Just trying to get folks riled up and thinking. That's usually a good thing, and can be at my expense, but that OK. Sometimes that bush you shake has a beehive in it. OUCH!

It's good to question, but a lot of the anti-"Idol" sentiment seems knee-jerk and Chicken Little, with romanticizing of the past and fear of the future.

I just enjoy the show for the show. I don't care if it produces viable artists. I get my viable artists elsewhere. I haven't bought one album by any of the contestants.

Quote:

Hey Skully. Checked out out your site. Nice music. Call me crazy, but lots of Brian Ferry influence in there for me, but with a twist your own. I like!

Thanks. I like me some Bryan Ferry. Roxy Music's "Avalon" was the make out album of the early '80s. I can't say he's an "influence," per se, but we take it all in and it comes out in ways we don't consciously control, shaped by our own experiences and physical limitations.

Tony · February 27th, 2008, 04:14 PM

here is who I can name (not including from this season):

Kelly Pickler, Fantasia, Melinda Doolittle, Mandissa, Daughtry, Kelly Clarkson, Jennifer Hudson, Taylor Hicks, Sanjaya, Carrie Underwood, Rueben, William Hung, Bo Bice, Clay Aiken, Katherine McPhee, Haley Scarnato (nice legs),

thats about it.

superchicken_VI · February 27th, 2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweedtone

Now, I've never watched the show but essentially, American Idol is professional-level karaoke, right...?

Not really, as they have a live band behind them and work on the arrangements with the bandleader. That's like saying that the lead singer of a cover band is just doing karaoke.

CrazyManAndy · February 27th, 2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skully

It's good to question, but a lot of the anti-"Idol" sentiment seems knee-jerk and Chicken Little, with romanticizing of the past and fear of the future.

I just enjoy the show for the show. I don't care if it produces viable artists. I get my viable artists elsewhere. I haven't bought one album by any of the contestents.

Ditto

CMA

superchicken_VI · February 27th, 2008, 05:56 PM

I despise the thought of the Jerry Springer show or Oprah. It never occurred to me to go to a bulletin board and complain about them. I just don't watch them.

bendecaster · February 27th, 2008, 06:45 PM

Skully, Sorry to disagree, but that guy that attempted "Alright now" hacked that song to tears guitar-wise, and didn't even come close to playing the rhythm near par. I heard them mention about a singer that played "hot guitar" before a commercial, and after his performance I was shocked that Simon didn't rip him a new one for it.
However, he did sing pretty well though! Sorry, I'm not big on being contrary, but I just wanted to voice my opinion about this one. No disrespect man!

bendecaster · February 27th, 2008, 06:49 PM

P.S. I'm not trying to be snobbish, nor do I think I could blow anyone away with my total precision, but that song only has 4 chords.

Flat357 · February 27th, 2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joisey

Ya rolls the dice ya takes your chances. I bet not one of those singers every carried a twin reverb.

He he , don't get that thread started again lol

superchicken_VI · February 27th, 2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bendecaster

Skully, Sorry to disagree, but that guy that attempted "Alright now" hacked that song to tears guitar-wise, and didn't even come close to playing the rhythm near par. I heard them mention about a singer that played "hot guitar" before a commercial, and after his performance I was shocked that Simon didn't rip him a new one for it.
However, he did sing pretty well though! Sorry, I'm not big on being contrary, but I just wanted to voice my opinion about this one. No disrespect man!

Yeah, I'm not a fan of that guy. His comb-over and trying to look like a rocker dude just don't jive. They give the Kid Rock-looking wannabe a hard time about authenticity, and then give this guy a free pass. I think he's the chump of the two. Now, I don't think that they helped him in the mix whatsoever, because his guitar was way down in the mix and way bassy. It had no cut, no soul. LP, EMGs, Marshall...Should have sounded like something, but it sounded heavy and boring.

February 27th, 2008, 03:01 PM	#94 (permalink)
garytelecastor Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,034 18 Photos	The thing to keep in mind is that the ultimate goal here is not to make a superstar but it is to make a tv show. You know that they pick people that they know will never win just so they have bodies to fill the air time. This is total hype. It is based on the old national contests that took place for centuries in Europe. Ever see the Sound of Music? This is all about selling airtime and selling phone time. I really can only name 2-3 of the winners of this thing since it has been on the air. __________________ éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é Did you ever find Bugs Bunny attractive when he put on a dress and make-up????

February 27th, 2008, 04:14 PM	#96 (permalink)
Tony Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sacratomato Posts: 784	I've only been watching the past 2 seasons here is who I can name (not including from this season): Kelly Pickler, Fantasia, Melinda Doolittle, Mandissa, Daughtry, Kelly Clarkson, Jennifer Hudson, Taylor Hicks, Sanjaya, Carrie Underwood, Rueben, William Hung, Bo Bice, Clay Aiken, Katherine McPhee, Haley Scarnato (nice legs), thats about it.

February 27th, 2008, 06:45 PM	#100 (permalink)
bendecaster Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: maine Posts: 533	Skully, Sorry to disagree, but that guy that attempted "Alright now" hacked that song to tears guitar-wise, and didn't even come close to playing the rhythm near par. I heard them mention about a singer that played "hot guitar" before a commercial, and after his performance I was shocked that Simon didn't rip him a new one for it. However, he did sing pretty well though! Sorry, I'm not big on being contrary, but I just wanted to voice my opinion about this one. No disrespect man! __________________ The Demented 7th

February 27th, 2008, 06:49 PM	#101 (permalink)
bendecaster Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: maine Posts: 533	P.S. I'm not trying to be snobbish, nor do I think I could blow anyone away with my total precision, but that song only has 4 chords. __________________ The Demented 7th

February 27th, 2008, 11:10 AM	#81 (permalink)
tboy Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Chicago Area Posts: 505 7 Photos	The British opera guy. Wow! Pipes! Won't happen here.

February 27th, 2008, 11:44 AM	#82 (permalink)
superchicken_VI Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Monroe, NC Age: 35 Posts: 890	I'm amazed at the venom spewed over this. It's just a TV show and a few platinum and gold albums, not to mention an Oscar. It beats the heck out of gangsta rap or another show about some ditz sleeping her way across California. I have more disdain for people like Stern who had people voting for Sanjaya last year and truly keeping good singers from being heard again. I actually enjoy the concept of the show, because it is about rags-to-riches. Even though these people might not be signing the best deals in the music business, I can't imagine that any of the top 24 from any season would be better off in life had they not made the show. And as for the "this is just an advertising medium" argument, of course it is!! What network show isn't? Heck, even the radar screen for Dutch Harbor on the Deadliest Catch is sponsored by friggin' Lexus!!

February 27th, 2008, 02:14 PM	#91 (permalink)
tboy Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Chicago Area Posts: 505 7 Photos	Hey Skully. Checked out out your site. Nice music. Call me crazy, but lots of Brian Ferry influence in there for me, but with a twist your own. I like! "And now, Back to American Idol."

February 27th, 2008, 02:57 PM	#93 (permalink)
tweedtone Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Age: 41 Posts: 640	Now, I've never watched the show but essentially, American Idol is professional-level karaoke, right...?

February 27th, 2008, 05:56 PM	#99 (permalink)
superchicken_VI Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Monroe, NC Age: 35 Posts: 890	I despise the thought of the Jerry Springer show or Oprah. It never occurred to me to go to a bulletin board and complain about them. I just don't watch them.