Is this the start of the next era of the NFL QB?

[chet]

For the next ten or so years Brady, the Manning bros. and maybe Carlson Palmer will be taking turns in taking thier teams to the Super Bowl. I think Palmer would've made it 2 years ago if that guy didn't roll over on his leg.

I don't think we've had this since the 60s and 70's with Unitas, Namath, Tarkenton, Gabriel etc.

[SINCASTER]

I see good things ahead for Mr. Young of the Titans too.

[geddins]

Uh...you forgot Romo

[chet]

Yeah, darn it. I was thinking of Romo when I had the idea of doing this thread yesterday.

[getbent]

Competent QB's who are fairly young:
Brady
Manning, P
Romo
Palmer
Young
Garrard
Roethlisberger

QB's who may become competent
Rodgers (GB)
Edwards (Buffalo)
Rivers
Cutler
Anderson
Leinart
Russell
smith

Journeyman
Hasselback
Warner
Pennington


Same Old Stuff (guaranteed to disappoint)
Dilfer
Testaverde
Grossman
Culpepper
herrington
leftwich
carr

not included... solid pros who's time is behind them
Favre
Garcia

Keep adding....

[F1rocco]

Agreed but it still really just Brady......

Add in free agency and coaches moving around that know the weakness of their old teams........Im a Steelers fan and think Big Ben is the best Steelers QB in years....But he had 4 turnovers that lost the game......

[chet]

Yeah, add Ben Rothlinsberger and Young to the lineup of elite QBs.

Brett Farve is there too but for how long?

[TelZilla]

Uh, Hasselbeck a journeyman? OK, he's kinda old, but he's better than a journeyman. And I'm not sure Eli has earned a place with Brady, Manning, Romo, palmer, Roethlisberger. He's not any better (he's probably worse) than Derek Anederson.

And I don't think Vince Young is really any good either.

[BB]

QB is such a hard position. I heard a GM ( can't remember who ) the other day saying he was pretty much through taking a QB with a first round pick.

Like the best/worst QB threads, many high draft picks fail while lower round picks become super stars.

On the flip side, QB's like Jim Plunket and to a lesser extent, Todd Collins, many QB's have mediocre careers until 10 years or so in the league......then, with the right team and the right circumstance, they flourish!

Before Warner got injured, he was amazing. He can still wrck up some numbers, but age and injuries have caught up. I like Bulger from St. Louis too....but fear he may have his career cut short. As far as Pennington, I guarantee you he would have several teams lined up for his service....even if it was a stop gap until a younger QB was ready.

So much of how a QB plays depends on the line and his receivers. We see QB's do great one year, then regress after getting beat to a pulp. A few years ago, Hasslebeck would have led the league in passing....but instead. the Hawks wound up leading in dropped passes. Between Daryl Jackson and Koren Robinson, they must have dropped 40-60 passes that season.

It will be interesting to see how Brady Quinn, Alex Smith, Aaron Rogers, et all do in the next few years.

[chet]

Originally Posted by F1rocco

Agreed but it still really just Brady......

Add in free agency and coaches moving around that know the weakness of their old teams........Im a Steelers fan and think Big Ben is the best Steelers QB in years....But he had 4 turnovers that lost the game......

Brady has the elite offensive line in the NFL. I don't know how they do it! Maybe it's just the lack of elite defensive linmen and linebackers at the present time. There's no Ray Nitzke, Dick Butkus or Lawrence Taylor playing right now. I thought Jason Taylor would get to Brady but I guess not. Wish he'd come to the Jets tho'.

[BB]

Originally Posted by TelZilla

Uh, Hasselbeck a journeyman? OK, he's kinda old, but he's better than a journeyman. And I'm not sure Eli has earned a place with Brady, Manning, Romo, palmer, Roethlisberger. He's not any better (he's probably worse) than Derek Anederson.

And I don't think Vince Young is really any good either.

Good point. I like Hasselbeck...of course, I'm a home towner and have followed his career and he is very highly thought of here. His stats have held up over the years too. Plus, he's a leader and a ( I hate this word ) warrior. His wrist was so bad he should have been pulled last week, but he guted it out as he has with several injuries this and other years.

One playoff win and suddenly Eli is the second coming! He's got a way to go....to a lesser extent, ( due to his great season ) same with Romo. Palmer regressed this year.....don't know if it was him, or those around him, but I'm sure Cincy fans were dissapointed. Derek Anderson had a great year and looks like he may keep Quinn on the bench for a bit longer......kind of like the San Diego thing with Rivers and Brees. Lets hope they make the right choice. I'm not sure San Diego did.

Vince Young....I'm not sure what to say about him. Like Vick, a great collge QB that won games with their ams and legs. For some reason, ( probably big, fast, mean linebackers! ) that does not translate well to the NFL.

[getbent]

I'd put Eli in with the Cutlers and Rivers gang... jury still out.

Hasselback.... without Holmgren, I think he wouldn't still be in the league... I'm glad he's found a home in Seattle... but I think of him as a 'game management' qb who does as directed as best as he can... vs. quarterbacks who can improvise (in the vein of Peyton Manning)

no disrespect there, just a description of what I see... Seattle fans have watched him much more closely so you may know more.

[Telepatio]

Our great state is about to give you Brian Brohm and Andre Woodson as well. I think Brohm especially is going to excel.

[getbent]

Originally Posted by Telepatio

Our great state is about to give you Brian Brohm and Andre Woodson as well. I think Brohm especially is going to excel.

In the Tim Couch kinda way?


I am convinced that there will never be a great NFL QB named andre.

[Telepatio]

The one who must not be named! :-) I'm pretty sure you're cursed now for mentioning him!

I'm not as sure about Andre, but I think Brohm could be the real deal. UofL's program really let him down this year, but his numbers and play were still good.

[tcadam]

I like the look of GetBent's list. However, I would quibble with describing Brady and Manning as "fairly young." Brady will be 31 before the next season starts while Manning will be 32. I'm not saying they're in the twilight of their careers, just that they have more years behind them than ahead.

[F1rocco]

The receivers today are making Qbs look so good....As well as the new qbz are like 6-5 260..Gets them an extra second or two in the pocket...These guys are giants

Big Ben was unstoppable when he had Randle El and Plexico....Now he looks decent..........While Eli and Collins only play good when their ex steelers players have good days...Looks like it to me

[dented]

I still think Donovan McNabb can take a team to a Super Bowl and win. Even with one arm, one leg and extra bowl of soup. Maybe....... Da Bears.

Okay, let me have it. His name wasn't on the list.

[getbent]

dented,
take the list and add to it.... I just started it... I'd love to see everyone on the list somewhere then we can see what we've got!

I would put McNabb in the disappointment category myself, but maybe with Chicago and with all their guys healthy next year (they had a ton of injuries this year) they could go all the way....

[0le FUZZY]

Is this the start of the next era of the NFL QB?

...Abb-soul-lute-lee knott!

...Jes a new set of names and knott all are new names (Manning fer won).





0le FUZZY

[hekawi]

Originally Posted by getbent

QB's who may become competent
Rodgers (GB)
Edwards (Buffalo)
Rivers
Cutler
Anderson
Leinart
Russell
smith

getbent, this is the list that intrigued me the most.
Rodgers impressed me when he subbed for Favre a couple of quarters. and i really think he'll do well when he finally gets his chance (he's a VERY patient guy).
Edwards looked good at times for the Bills... the kid's got moxie. but Buffalo needs a few more players around him to become a playoff team.

Rivers is starting to come around. if they beat the Colts this week, he'll make believers out of a lot of people.

Anderson is going to make somebody a great quarterback, i'm just not sure it's going to be Cleveland, since they've got so much riding on Quinn.

Being a Raiders fan, i sure hope Russell comes through. he had real flashes of brilliance at LSU, but great in college don't always translate to the pros. we shall see.

[F1rocco]

These guys have 3 superbowls wins in their future

Brady
Manning, P
Romo

These guys have less then 2

Young
Garrard
Roethlisberger

[getbent]

If you remember when GB took Rodgers... they thought they'd be in serious rebuild mode and that Favre would fade and retire... Favre was pretty surly with the kid and kept him at a serious distance.... but I think they've come to respect each other... He will have some time to learn and study and watch and be ready in another year or two when Brett checks out....

My son and I really wanted the 49ers to draft him instead of Alex Smith... but there has been a pretty rocky history of Cal qb's in the past few years (Boller etc) almost as bad as Fresno St (Dilfer, Carr)... Edwards was hurt the entire time he was at Stanford, but if he stays healthy he could be great...

Anderson? Last year (2006) when my son and I saw him play, my boy immediately wanted his jersey... I think he could be really good... some pretty major mechanical flaws but nothing as bad as Alex Smith's structural problems... Garrard was another one we saw briefly two seasons ago who we both said "that guy is good".

I have some major doubts about jemarcus. I hope I'm wrong. I have lots and lots of friends who are Raiders fans... these have been tough times for bay area sports fans on many fronts... I remember the late 70's and have hopes for the future though!

[getbent]

Originally Posted by F1rocco

These guys have 3 superbowls wins in their future

Brady
Manning, P
Romo

These guys have less then 2

Young
Garrard
Roethlisberger

Probably true... but is it fair to Marino and Jim Kelly to do it that way?

[woodman]

+1 on the O-line comment -- a quarterback can't do much when he's running for his life.

no one's mentioned Delhomme, who took the Panthers to a Super Bowl but isn't super-talented, just gutsy (when he's not running for his life). Matt Moore, an undrafted rookie, showed signs of promise after Jake went down and Testaverde flamed out. way too soon to tell on Moore, though.

i think the running dimension will be a key factor in the NFL quarterbacks of the future. not a runner who can throw, but a sharp, accurate passer who can take off when necessary.

[chet]

Eli may not be in the same class as Peyton and Brady yet but he has to endure more media pressure than anyone else in the league because he plays in New York. Add to that the fact that his brother is Peyton Manning and his dad is Archie Manning. This week was the only time I've seen him really relax and pump fake-out the secondary. Usually you can tell he tries to force eveything in heavy coverage. Just a nudge of his shoulder and it threw the whole defense off.

[stevieboy]

So much of this involves the team they're on of course. Brady has played every minute of his pro career with a Super Bowl quality team. He's a great QB no doubt, and he has certainly added to that SB level of the team, but he'd have zero rings if he was on a the Lions or the Texans.

I really like Vince Young, but I don't think he belongs in the top group yet, he certainly hasn't accomplished any more than some of the other names in the second group, Rivers for example. He may well be the QB of the future, but he, and his team, have to take some big strides still.

BB's comments about high and low draft choice QB's and some guys blooming later in their careers are true. In the old days a QB would hold a clipboard for three or four years before he got a chance to play. With today's signing salaries teams just can't afford to draft a quarterback high and not play him. They're really not ready for NFL defenses (or offenses for that matter) and speed yet, and they have to learn under fire, subjecting them to a lot of early failure, and a lot of criticism by fans and media.

BTW Testaverde retired (again).

[chet]

Originally Posted by woodman

+1 on the O-line comment -- a quarterback can't do much when he's running for his life.
i think the running dimension will be a key factor in the NFL quarterbacks of the future. not a runner who can throw, but a sharp, accurate passer who can take off when necessary.

Watch Brady next game- most likely he'll just stand back there all day and just look over every receiver 2 or 3 times it seems. If a defender gets by he just sidesteps or runs a few yards and slides.
When the other team tries to blitz the line just holds them off until Brady finds an open receiver.


If he gets too overconfident tho'...

watch out cause the other teams are playing for keeps and would like nothing better to take him out of the playoffs the way they took out Carlson Palmer. It's dog eat dog now.

[getbent]

Stevieboy, True about Brady... but, Brady led them when they had Bledsoe... Bledsoe couldn't get them there.

Vince Young took that Titans team way farther than they ever would have gone in his rookie year.

Montana may have enjoyed a similar fate to Brady's... but, if it was just the OLine and great talent, how come steve deberg couldn't get them there? (or Steve Spurrier... one of the great washouts of all time!)

Delhomme is, for me, kind of a journeyman... the Bobby Hebert of his time. I like him, but like you say Woody, he isn't that good.

I think qb's that play in a spread offense in college are going to be pidgeon holed the way qb's who played in the wishbone were in the 70's. I think folks are starting to see that success in that offense in college is not an indicator for the NFL. It will be interesting to see where the Hawaii kid gets taken...

[geddins]

My bet is that Colt Brennan falls to 4th round or later. It's too dang "iffy" to take a QB in the very early rounds IMO....the ones that seem to really be good are solid middle-rounders (or undrafted ) that come from colleges where the emphasis is on a balanced attack and not especially a throwing attack.

Guys like Brady, Manning, Romo (ok, it's still early on Romo) have that innate QB "sense" ...the ability to make more GOOD decisions than BAD ones in non-typical situations.....really, those decisions are where many games are won/lost.

JMO, YMMV

[hekawi]

Originally Posted by chet

Watch Brady next game- most likely he'll just stand back there all day and just look over every receiver 2 or 3 times it seems. If a defender gets by he just sidesteps or runs a few yards and slides.
When the other team tries to blitz the line just holds them off until Brady finds an open receiver.

reminds me of Stabler & the Raiders in 76. you watch highlights of that team today and it's like they freeze frame The Snake for 5-7 seconds when he drops back. it all comes down to the O-line. that Raiders team had the best offensive line ever, and the Patriots blockers come awfully close.

[chet]

Originally Posted by geddins

My bet is that Colt Brennan falls to 4th round or later. It's too dang "iffy" to take a QB in the very early rounds IMO....the ones that seem to really be good are solid middle-rounders (or undrafted ) that come from colleges where the emphasis is on a balanced attack and not especially a throwing attack.

Guys like Brady, Manning, Romo (ok, it's still early on Romo) have that innate QB "sense" ...the ability to make more GOOD decisions than BAD ones in non-typical situations.....really, those decisions are where many games are won/lost.

JMO, YMMV

Romo would've been in the Super Bowl last year if they would've had someone else holding the ball on field goal attempts.
They did get someone else to do that this year, I hope.

[The Bone]

Eli Manning and
Vince Young

have at least (1) Super Bowl appearance in each of them. Possibly more. The NY Giants could be there this year.

I don't think Roethlisberger will get there again.

[chet]

Carlson Palmer and the Bengals will be back once again.

Palmer. Brady, Rothlinsberger and Peyton will cancel each other out regarding Super Bowl appearances during the next decade.

Just like Romo and Eli will do in the NFC.

[geddins]

Originally Posted by chet

.

Just like Romo and Eli will do in the NFC.

Not unless Tom Coughlin is gone they won't. NYG need to move on from TC...personally, I don't care...I kinda like seeing them waste talent up there....but don't expect any type of sustained success ....history just don't lie.

[JMURRAY16]

Last year I thought Vince Young played VERY well for a rookie.
But this year he was a huge disappointment. There were times you would watch him and he truly looked like he did not have a clue out there. His legs will save him some times, but if his passing and decision making does not improve soon I think he could be a big disaster waiting to happen.
If I had to make a list of the QB's who could win next year it would be:
1) Brady
2) P. Manning
3) Romo
4) Palmer
5) Big Ben
6) McNabb
7) Favre
8) Brees
9) Garrard
10) E. Manning

[TelecasterBlooz]

Just so y'all know, Aaron Rodgers is NOT universally welcomed as the "Favre heir apparent". He's NOTHING like Hasselbeck when he was GB's #2. You could ALWAYS count on Matt to close a game as he did so many times in pre-season. Rodgers is alot more dodgy. If my Pack does the trick and gets another ring for #4, you can bet if Brett retires the Pack will most likely get a new QB. During the Favre "reign" in GB, we have produced some excellent QB's to include Hasselbeck, Detmer, Brunell, and Pedersen. All given the right team and crcumstances have had their share of success. I like to think its because they had the opportunity to study under the legend. Favre was NOT "frosty" to Rodgers, he told the coaching staff that he (Favre) was not there to "bring Rodgers along", rather he was there to win ball games, and that the coaches were there to coach the young QB.

[getbent]

Brett to backups.. buzz off

Aaron Rodgers chosen #1 draft pick by packers

[chet]

Originally Posted by geddins

Not unless Tom Coughlin is gone they won't. NYG need to move on from TC...personally, I don't care...I kinda like seeing them waste talent up there....but don't expect any type of sustained success ....history just don't lie.

Coughlin's a great coach. The Giants had a bunch of low-lifes last year and before who undermined his authority. It was pitiful to watch them play especially the defense. Just a bunch of fat dorks who couldn't or wouldn't get off thier butt and learn how to tackle.

Tiki Barber was a cancer in the locker room backstabbing Coughlin and Manning. I think he was just jealous cause he could never take the Giants where they could if the team got behind them. He somehow convinced them to make him look good and Manning and Coughlin bad.

[Darrell]

I am becoming a Hasselback fan too.

The guy has carried the team almost on his own. They gave up TWO of their best linemen after their Superbowl run in free agency, lost the best fullback available which reduced Alexander to an average runner, they have almost no receivers, and an average defense, and they are still going to go far in the play-offs. He may be the most underrated QB...ever. I would take him over Young in a heartbeat.

Based on performance
Brady
Manning
Gerrard
Romo
Hasselback
Brees