Beatles "Day Tripper" question

[chet]

Today I used my digital recorder and tried to replicate all the guitar parts by overdubbing. I couldn't get the guitar riff to sound as one on two different tracks. I kept getting a kind of slap back effect with one riff being out of sync with another.

Do you think they just "bounced" George's part from one track to another? Did they have that capability then? I think it's easier to double track a vocal.

I got the rest of the parts to sound OK. I should've also tried to add the bass part but I would've had to move the mic around. I used a Shure SM58 mic but think I need to get a SM57.

Any one else ever try stuff like this? It's a lot of fun.

[raf]

Use a delay unit with the original signal recorded to one track and the delay signal recorded to another. Keep the dealy time & repeat way down to avoid the slap back sound. Mix hard left and hard right. Your guitar will sound thick and, if you do it right, "uneffected." (You could probably use any stereo effect pedal to achieve this effect...chorus?)

Another way is to A/B your signal into 2 different amps with unique sounds, record each simultaneously to separate tracks, & mix them hard left & hard right. Unique & big guitar sound.

Good Luck!

[Skully]

Do you think they just "bounced" George's part from one track to another? Did they have that capability then? I think it's easier to double track a vocal.

They called it Automatic Double Tracking (ADT). It's a big part of what made The Beatles sound Beatle-y

[beep.click]

Originally Posted by chet

Any one else ever try stuff like this?

I double-track a lot of stuff -- mostly vocals. It can be interesting, because some people are naturally more consistent than others, from take to take. It actually sounds BETTER if there are subtle, audible differences.

For that reason, if I ever do a doubled guitar part, I like to use two different guitars. No matter how precise I may be, the intonation is going to be slightly off.

[F1rocco]

Originally Posted by Skully

They called it Automatic Double Tracking (ADT). It's a big part of what made The Beatles sound Beatle-y

Great call....Take it one step further back...

RIP Tony Dowd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Dowd

[OutlawSteph1975]

Yes, I've done And Your Bird Can Sing. I recorded the first lead guitar part and overdubbed the harmony. It was a little off but not bad! I mixed my Tele for the lower part with my Carvin for the higher part. John and George used their Casinos, I believe.

I've also done Petty's Learning to Fly.. I recorded the bass line first, which helps keep everything together, then overdubbed acoustic rhythm guitar, 12 string electric and then slide on my Tele. I don't have any real recording equipment but used my Boss Loop Station which works okay for just messing around, getting ideas down and actually hearing what I sound like.

[chet]

"And Your Bird Can Sing" is outta my league. Outta the stratosphere for me.

Did you get the vocals down also?

I'd like to try that on some Beatles songs but I don't know anyone around here who can sing.

[chet]

I also need a good condenser mic for recording. I'm using a cheap one right now.

[chet]

Originally Posted by OutlawSteph1975

Yes, I've done And Your Bird Can Sing. I recorded the first lead guitar part and overdubbed the harmony. It was a little off but not bad! I mixed my Tele for the lower part with my Carvin for the higher part. John and George used their Casinos, I believe.

I've also done Petty's Learning to Fly.. I recorded the bass line first, which helps keep everything together, then overdubbed acoustic rhythm guitar, 12 string electric and then slide on my Tele. I don't have any real recording equipment but used my Boss Loop Station which works okay for just messing around, getting ideas down and actually hearing what I sound like.

Can you download it and e-mail it to me? I'd like to hear the results.

[OutlawSteph1975]

Originally Posted by chet

Can you download it and e-mail it to me? I'd like to hear the results.

I've got to figure out a way to get it from my Boss Loop Station to the computer which I'm not sure how to do. I've never recorded on the PC before. The Digitech Looper has a USB output but the Boss doesn't. No, I didn't do the vocals, just the guitars. Not sure a girl's voice would work unless it was one of Paul's ballads.

The Beatles Complete Scores was the best $50 I ever spent on a music book.

http://www.amazon.com/Beatles-Comple...48903&sr= 8-1

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by chet

Do you think they just "bounced" George's part from one track to another? Did they have that capability then? I think it's easier to double track a vocal.

I think it's two discreet tracks. I guess George was just good at doubling his own parts. During the bridge the parts diverge. I've got an early mix of the instrumental track of the released version with only one George track, so it's easy to hear what was added to finish the released version.

In my opinion he used the Gretsch Tennessean, into a Fender Showman amp for the main riff. The compressed tone in the bridge, the part where they go to B, is in my opinion a Strat through a white Bassman. In the background, you can hear the Tennessean playing a B scale with a volume pedal.

Oddly, the part of that song I find most difficult to duplicate is Lennon's rhythm.

[chet]

George is shown playing his Gibson ES-345 (?) on both videos of that song on the Anthology so I thought it might be that guitar.

[chet]

Originally Posted by OutlawSteph1975

I've got to figure out a way to get it from my Boss Loop Station to the computer which I'm not sure how to do. I've never recorded on the PC before. The Digitech Looper has a USB output but the Boss doesn't. No, I didn't do the vocals, just the guitars. Not sure a girl's voice would work unless it was one of Paul's ballads.

The Beatles Complete Scores was the best $50 I ever spent on a music book.

http://www.amazon.com/Beatles-Comple...48903&sr= 8-1

Duh!

Sorry, I didn't realize it was a female posting.

I'll try doubling the part again this weekend just for kicks.

[chet]

Seeing as how hard it was for me to get the guitar parts to mesh just think how hard it would be to get the BASS part in there too. Those guys were really great!

[OutlawSteph1975]

I know how you feel Chet.. sometimes I want to put my guitar down when I can't play like my heroes note for note.. but I keep that in perspective by thinking that not even the best guitar players knew how to imitate every style they liked.

Here's a chick that could sing a guy's song!

[backalleyblues]

Hmm, and I thought it was his '64 SG standard into a Vox AC-50 or 100, remember seeing a video clip with George playing the riff on the SG (certainly could've been lip-synched).

IIRC, that SG wound up later with Clapton, and got a paint job...

Franc Robert
Back Alley Blues Band

[chet]

Originally Posted by OutlawSteph1975

I know how you feel Chet.. sometimes I want to put my guitar down when I can't play like my heroes note for note.. but I keep that in perspective by thinking that not even the best guitar players knew how to imitate every style they liked.

Here's a chick that could sing a guy's song!

What's up. I don't see anything.

[chet]

Originally Posted by OutlawSteph1975

I know how you feel Chet.. sometimes I want to put my guitar down when I can't play like my heroes note for note.. but I keep that in perspective by thinking that not even the best guitar players knew how to imitate every style they liked.

About the last thing I want to do is become a carbon copy of anyone else playing-wise.
I just though it was interesting that I couldn't duplicate my own playing on the recorder.

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by chet

George is shown playing his Gibson ES-345 (?) on both videos of that song on the Anthology so I thought it might be that guitar.

I think that guitar was borrowed from Tony Hicks of The Hollies, and was never used to record anything. He did a few live shows in England (and maybe Germany?) around the end of 1965 with it.

My Tenny through a Deluxe-Amp totally NAILS that tone, picking near the bridge.

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by backalleyblues

IIRC, that SG wound up later with Clapton, and got a paint job...

Nope, Harrison gave his SG to Pete Ham of Badfinger, at the Concert for Bangladesh.

[Tim Bowen]

Can't speak directly to what George and The Beatles did - just chiming in as a long time fan of (physically) doubling. Some thoughts:

* Keep doing it. Not only will you get good at doubling as an end result over time, but it will step your general sense of meter and pocket up a notch. And with regard to pitch as well, as to doubling vocals and slide parts and stuff like that.

* I'm sure I've heard lots of cool records that lean the other way, but personally, I've always preferred the sound of physically doubled parts over the various other methods. The imperfections, natural chorusing, and such are part of the charm, provided that the meter is basically good.

* Whether it's doubling vocals or instruments, I find that the mix I'm hearing is key. Depending on the situation, you could be dealing with a headphone mix or a speaker mix. I seem to best get the doubling thing if the real time part I'm cutting is slightly lower in volume than what I'm doubling to. On the flip side, I've known plenty of folks that prefer the opposite. Personally, if the new real time track is too stark in my mix, my playing tends to come off sounding tentative, lacking in conviction and groove.

* Like I said, I don't know how George got his bits. For one tune that I cut, I definitely wanted a George/Badfinger sort of doubled slide guitar thing. I recorded two harmony parts in real time, one bone dry, and I printed a delay set for "doubling" (about 25 ms) for the other, as I tracked.

[bowlfreshener]

Maybe its just me, but every time I hear the riff to Daytripper I think it sounds similar to the riff from Nazereth's "Hair Of The Dog"...Am I brain damaged, or has anyone else noticed or thought that?

[Agarn]

Originally Posted by chet

George is shown playing his Gibson ES-345 (?) on both videos of that song on the Anthology so I thought it might be that guitar.

George used the Gibson in the studio video (John on Rickenbacker):



and the Epiphone Casino live (John too):