New approach to the "old guy band syndrome."

[Tony474]

Further to the above, let me illustrate attitudes over here. A while ago we arrived at a new venue. On the wall was a notice. "SATURDAY NIGHT", it said at the top. "LIVE MUSIC", it said at the foot. And in the middle was a picture... of a CD being put in its slot.

I'm delighted to report that the venue has since been demolished. But still, in vain can we even begin to hope to demolish the entrenched attitude here that music somehow materialises magically from a box and has nothing to do with actual people.

Maybe I should list this as a Pet Peeve elsewhere...

[david henman]

Originally Posted by petebradt

We played a block party yesterday. Our ages range from 47-63. We're already booked for next year's 4th of July block party, we got three gigs out of this gig and we're playing a festival and a block party next month. 2-3 gigs a month is all we want, and even then, only from about april-october.
If you want to play BARS, yeah that sort of thing matters. Keep in mind, the biggest music-consuming demographic today is boomers.
But we boomers are older and we don't go to bars much any more. I *never* go to a bar unless I have a gig or a friend has a gig. I drink at home.
Part of it is you have to be GOOD. You have to be tight tight tight.
I have also found people don't know what they want to hear, they don't have a clue about what they want. Your job, if you choose to accept it, is to take the folks on a little musical trip. Take them to where YOU want to take them and if you are good, if you add something to what you're playing, you can convince folks to take the trip with you.
I make a point of avoiding "classic rock" stuff. I can't play it like i mean it any more, and that will come across to the audience. I don't want to play modern rock for the same reason.
Ol' Delbert McClinton has always had the take on music I have ...
"I think the way I'm trying to do the old songs is as good a way as there is. Do 'em like they're new songs. Do 'em without trying to copy the old arrangements."
There's a lesson in that for many posters in this thread.
If you're covering the hits, make 'em new again. Try something different. But whatever you do, if you play it like you mean it, some people will get caught up in that.

...yes, yes and yes! especially the part about playing covers - make them your own!!!

when i try to impress an audience, i can sense them distancing themselves from me. then, when i just close my eyes and lose myself in the performance, i can sense them drawing near.

-dh

[Oskar]

why do we feel that we our music has no validity unless it appeals to "younger kids"?

Well, maybe I wasn't too clear. I'm not saying the MUSIC isn't valid, it's the packaging. If you put out a CD, with great music on it, but have a picture on the front of a bunch of geezers there is a pretty good chance that most all who are 30 and under will just leave it in the bin. Makes NO difference how good the music inside is, they see that photo and move on. This is nothing new, it's generational. They are going to relate to what they are familiar with. I did the same thing when I was younger.
My point was based around marketing a band, and as several have noted on this thread from their experience, there is a real distinction between younger bands and older bands.
I agree with you it SHOULD be irrelevant, but unfortunately it isn't. Does that stop me from playing out and making music? Hell No!!! But I do want my CD to at least be listened to and when I market it, it won't have a photo of us on it. It can only help to keep it off. I want people who pick it up in the store to be curious about it, and not make a judgment simply on who the musicians are. After all, it's the music that sells.... supposedly

[jimbach]

Wow. I have almost the opposite problem.I'm 43, and I hate playing "classic rock." I think I'd rather jab sticks into my eardrums than play some moldy '60s or '70s song. Sure, I listen to that stuff and I like a lot of it, but when I go to a bar I don't want to hear it, and I certainly don't want to play it. The problem is that almost all the musicians I know who are around my age only want to play that stuff, because they are pretty much totally ignorant of anything that's been released in the last 20 years (or more.) But kids don't typically want a 40-something in their band, so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. My solution is to just play originals. :)

[Telenator]

At the end of the day, I just want to play my guitar. I want to play at a place where people appreciate live music and dig what the band is doing. That's all. If this means I have to make a few small alterations in forming a new group to accomplish the goal, then so be it. No problem. I like lots of different music and will enjoy playing different styles as long as the band is groovin!

[david henman]

Originally Posted by Oskar

Well, maybe I wasn't too clear. I'm not saying the MUSIC isn't valid, it's the packaging. If you put out a CD, with great music on it, but have a picture on the front of a bunch of geezers there is a pretty good chance that most all who are 30 and under will just leave it in the bin. Makes NO difference how good the music inside is, they see that photo and move on. This is nothing new, it's generational. They are going to relate to what they are familiar with. I did the same thing when I was younger.
My point was based around marketing a band, and as several have noted on this thread from their experience, there is a real distinction between younger bands and older bands.
I agree with you it SHOULD be irrelevant, but unfortunately it isn't. Does that stop me from playing out and making music? Hell No!!! But I do want my CD to at least be listened to and when I market it, it won't have a photo of us on it. It can only help to keep it off. I want people who pick it up in the store to be curious about it, and not make a judgment simply on who the musicians are. After all, it's the music that sells.... supposedly

...got it. still, what "younger kids" think of me, or my music, is nonetheless irrelevant to me, in much the same way i would imagine what i think of their music is irrelevant to younger kids. my music is aimed at all music lovers but, primarily, at people my own age. in fact, i'm seriously thinking of titling my first commercial cd "music for adults".

-dh

[BlueMidnight]

The MTV effect has made the look of a band as important as the sound. It's quite sad, because it's so superficial.

There's no way a band like Bachman-Turner Overdrive would make it in today's market, no matter how good they were. No fatties or baldies allowed!

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by BlueMidnight

There's no way a band like Bachman-Turner Overdrive would make it in today's market, no matter how good they were. No fatties or baldies allowed!

Not quite true, fat bald guys can be found in all sorts of metal bands. They shave their head once the bald spot shows up, but they are hairless and supersized.

[Oskar]

...got it. still, what "younger kids" think of me, or my music, is nonetheless irrelevant to me, in much the same way i would imagine what i think of their music is irrelevant to younger kids. my music is aimed at all music lovers but, primarily, at people my own age. in fact, i'm seriously thinking of titling my first commercial cd "music for adults".

Actually that concept has some merit. After all, the world is going to be inundated by boomers, yours truly included
Yes, my music is aimed at all music lovers as well, and our CD has all originals that we think have a contemporary feel to them. However, image, unfortunately, is almost everything if you really want to get your music out there. Certainly one can market a CD to a specific demographic, such as your suggestion of "music for adults". Although to me that's almost admitting that the music you create will appeal to only a certain crowd. I'd like to shoot for the moon, which is why I'm going to try. I may fall on my face doing it, but I gotta give it a shot.

[petebradt]

Originally Posted by david henman

...got it. still, what "younger kids" think of me, or my music, is nonetheless irrelevant to me, in much the same way i would imagine what i think of their music is irrelevant to younger kids. my music is aimed at all music lovers but, primarily, at people my own age. in fact, i'm seriously thinking of titling my first commercial cd "music for adults".

-dh

Our band, on its web site, has the phrase "Good Time Music for Grown-Ups."

We mean just that. If some bar owner wants music that skews young, that's cool, don't hire us. I couldn't care less what some 25-year-old hip-hopper or pop diva lover thinks of us anyway. We know our demographic, and it's why we're not aiming at a bar-band career.

Besides, bar gigs suck ass anyway. I don't care if I never play another bar gig again.

[petebradt]

Originally Posted by Oskar

No want wants to see gramps rocking out on stage.

If this is so, please explain to me, why, oh why, the Delbert McClinton Cruise sells out every freakin year?

Let me tell you something, you're hangin' (and playin') in the wrong places if you thinks that's so.

If you're playing local bars, and no one wants to see you, maybe you're playing the wrong places. We played yesterday, we old farts, and folks were diggin the hell out of it. Kids were dancing, adults were dancing, old folks were dancing. Everyone had a great time. We didn't play ANYTHING THEY'D EVER HEARD ON THE RADIO except the old Buddy Holly song "Oh Boy."

Face it, bars suck. It sucks to have to play them and truthfully, I'd rather play a private party (but NOT a wedding).

I still believe if you play what you play with conviction, heart and quality, people will take that musical journey with you.

Case in point - I saw a band last weekend. They were DREADFUL. They played old, tired blues stuff, no conviction, they didn't play like they meant it. They weren't tight, and I couldn't wait to get out of there, but they were friends and I had promised I'd go see them.

I once saw a Delbert McClinton interview in which he said, "Mediocre Blues gets real old, real fast."

I think that applies to ANY music.

Music is testimony. If you're testifyin' whole-heartedly, it's infectious. People WILL be taken on that trip, they can't help themselves.

But half-assed testifyin'? Nobody wants to hear that.

I think the problem with most cover bands is they try too damned hard to COPY the original. STOP IT! Take each and every song you play, and make it your own. Make it new again. Make it exciting again. NOBODY wants to hear "Mustang Sally" just the way Wilson Pickett did it, and every band I've ever heard do it, did it half-assed. Same with two or three dozen other cover band staples you could name. I never want to hear "Mustang Sally" again as long as I live.

If I had a dime for every time I've read "How can I get (insert over-rated guitar hero's name here) tone?" I could retire in luxury. You could take that player's very rig, play guitar through it and I promise you, you'd sound like you. I could also get rich on how many times I see people saying they need a "versatile" amp so they can get tones from records (total folly since even the original performer didn't sound like that live). Find a few sounds YOU like, and play the damn songs. I promise you, your listeners don't care if your tone is even remotely like the original. The tone part of it is for YOU more than it's for anyone else. Get used to this - 99 percent of your audience doesn't care if you use a Pignose or one of those little "Mini" amps you can buy, that look like miniature Twins or Marshall stacks.

Get used to this idea too: You are not Wilson Pickett (or whoever). Make the damn songs your own, play slide instead of fretted, throw some well-placed stops in there where none are expected. Write a bridge that doesn't even exist in the original and throw it in. Throw in a key change that doesn't exist in the original.

By making the songs your own, maybe, just maybe, no one will give a rip about your bald spot or your burgeoning midsection.

Yes, it's a lot more work. It's not convenient. It requires creativity, original thinking and mastery of your instrument, another quality sorely lacking in most cover bands I see. Learn to PLAY...learn to CREATE. Copying is for people who are too lame to do anything else.

In my never humble opinion, THAT is the problem most of you face.

And lest you think I'm blowin' smoke, check out what I did to "Sharp Dressed Man."

[Joe-Bob]

I can't belive they'd rather hear young 'uns play like crap that the real deal. Hell, Telenator, you know what I look like...should I just throw in the towel? Does that "Just For Men" stuff come in 55 gallon drums?

[Tony474]

Originally Posted by david henman

...yes, yes and yes! especially the part about playing covers - make them your own!!!

when i try to impress an audience, i can sense them distancing themselves from me. then, when i just close my eyes and lose myself in the performance, i can sense them drawing near.

-dh

Mr Henman and I sometimes differ radically, but on this one he's nailed it 100%. Enjoy your own performance and that communicates itself to the audience, whose enthusiasm in turn lifts your game further, and a positive feedback loop establishes itself. Works wonders.

[RCinMempho]

A good bass player friend of mine says he plays each song just like the record...

...would have been recorded if he had played on it.

[Telenator]

Originally Posted by Tony474

Mr Henman and I sometimes differ radically, but on this one he's nailed it 100%. Enjoy your own performance and that communicates itself to the audience, whose enthusiasm in turn lifts your game further, and a positive feedback loop establishes itself. Works wonders.

Interesting. If I ever get the gigs in the first place, I'll let ya know how it all works out. LOL!

[fierce_carrot]

Originally Posted by chet

I think that guy is full of it. Look at Bon Jovi- I think he's older than both of us and he's still filling up the stadiums.
Maybe you guys need to "up" your sex appeal (lose weight).

ALOT of truth in that post. Performing live is about the music AND the visual aspect of the band.

This isn't rocket science yet the vast majority of musicians never GET IT.

It's a business, and when you play bars, it's about ATTRACTING WOMEN. If you ATTRACT THE WOMEN, THE MEN WILL COME...and the BAR WILL SELL LOTS AND LOTS OF LIQUOR.

If you don't look like you are there to entertain, but look like you just left from cleaning your garage, don't expect much of a turn out. Endless polls have been done and the more overweight one is, the less appeal they have to others.

When you are in a business where appeal is necessary, then you better have some appeal, or get some.

[TeleConvert]

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

Does that "Just For Men" stuff come in 55 gallon drums?

Oh God, I sincerely hope so!!

[fltpkr]

Originally Posted by fierce_carrot

ALOT of truth in that post. Performing live is about the music AND the visual aspect of the band.

This isn't rocket science yet the vast majority of musicians never GET IT.

It's a business, and when you play bars, it's about ATTRACTING WOMEN. If you ATTRACT THE WOMEN, THE MEN WILL COME...and the BAR WILL SELL LOTS AND LOTS OF LIQUOR.

If you don't look like you are there to entertain, but look like you just left from cleaning your garage, don't expect much of a turn out. Endless polls have been done and the more overweight one is, the less appeal they have to others.

When you are in a business where appeal is necessary, then you better have some appeal, or get some.

Geez, then I guess players like Redd Volkaert, Johnny Hiland, Buddy Whittington, etc., just have no chance. Shame..

[david henman]

Originally Posted by Oskar

Actually that concept has some merit. After all, the world is going to be inundated by boomers, yours truly included
Yes, my music is aimed at all music lovers as well, and our CD has all originals that we think have a contemporary feel to them. However, image, unfortunately, is almost everything if you really want to get your music out there. Certainly one can market a CD to a specific demographic, such as your suggestion of "music for adults". Although to me that's almost admitting that the music you create will appeal to only a certain crowd. I'd like to shoot for the moon, which is why I'm going to try. I may fall on my face doing it, but I gotta give it a shot.

...good luck, mate!

i want to get my music out to music lovers, the ones to whom image is not important.

-dh

[jumpnblues]

"[Originally Posted by chet View Post
I think that guy is full of it. Look at Bon Jovi- I think he's older than both of us and he's still filling up the stadiums.
Maybe you guys need to "up" your sex appeal (lose weight).]"


Uhhh....."Bowling For Soup"...?

Tom

[jumpnblues]

Pete,

Say it brother!! Once again, you nailed it.

Tom

[david henman]

Originally Posted by jumpnblues