Sweet Home Alabama solos

[Telemarkman]

Together with "Johnny B.Goode" and "Layla", "Sweet Home Alabama" must have one of the fastest recognizable opening riffs in rock'n roll history. (Also one of the greatest, I may add).

Ed King, who wrote the opening riff, also plays the guitar solos on the original version of the song, and he claims they came to him in a dream. What's so special about it - besides being great - is that Al Kooper, who produced it, thought the solos were played in the wrong key ! Ed plays them in G (that's how he dreamt them), while Al Kooper maintained that the song was in the key of D. Kooper even played the tape to Mike Bloomfield, and they were having a good laugh at this guy who played in the wrong key. But the rest of the band supported Ed King, and the solos were eventually kept in G.

Personally I think one of the reasons that those solos are so great, is actually the fact that they are in the "wrong" key. (Steve Gaines, who took over for Ed King, played them in D).

Do you guys have any opinion on this topic ? Is Ed King in fact right when he claims that the song's "real" key is G ?

I found this version on YouTube, and though it's not the best I've heard, it IS the original version played by the original band. Ed's backup vocal is somewhat off, and so is the end of his second solo .

It still illustrates the question, I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap4RQsm12-0

[Mid Life Crisis]

I think its right to consider the song is in G. Sure, the opening chord is D but going down through C to G its a G progression i.e. V-VI-I. Listening to the actual song it seems to "settle" at G.

[RCinMempho]

IMHO, the whole song is in the key of G.

[Scotland]

Wrong key or not, it sounds great and it's what I always play too.

[clayfeat]

While I am not a big LS fan nor do I ever wish to play this song again for the rest of my life, I do have to admit that it is a good one and the solos are great.

I always played them in D positions without really thinking about it.

To me, this song posesses the classic rock n roll Strat sound.

[franchelB]

Originally Posted by clayfeat

While I am not a big LS fan nor do I ever wish to play this song again for the rest of my life, I do have to admit that it is a good one and the solos are great.

I always played them in D positions without really thinking about it...

Plus...
I always thought it was it the key of "D", but I don't think it's crazy to think of the song in "G".

I feel a "discussion" coming on...

[Tele The Truth]

Originally Posted by Mid Life Crisis

I think its right to consider the song is in G. Sure, the opening chord is D but going down through C to G its a G progression i.e. V-VI-I. Listening to the actual song it seems to "settle" at G.

+1
This pretty much nails it.

If you're playing in D, that C# ain't gunna sound too sweet over the C chord.


EDIT: I think that some of the confusion comes in because you can play D pentatonic over the progression using the 7 tone as a passing tone. It works for the G and D no problem, but you gotta watch it over the C.

I'm having a hard time thinkin today.

[Tele The Truth]

D Minor pentatonic works over the whole thing though.

[Chris S.]

Originally Posted by franchelB

Plus... I always thought it was it the key of "D", but I don't think it's crazy to think of the song in "G". ... I feel a "discussion" coming on...

Actually, it's not coming "on," it's coming up – again:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tab-tips-...=sweet+alabama

And as you will read (IF you click on the thread, of course ) the song is in D. Hope it helps, CS :-)

[TeleConvert]

It is the mixolydian mode of D, if I'm not mistaken. D major scale with a flat 7th, which is the same notes as the G major scale, just starting and ending on D. I'm surprised that somebody like Al Kooper wouldn't have picked up on that. The use of the mixolydian mode is really pretty common.

[Califiddler]

Teleconvert beat me to it. The song is in D mixolydian. There are tons of songs in mixolydian, everything from Irish fiddle tunes to bluegrass to rock.

[Califiddler]

Of course, D mixolydian and G major are the same scale, the only difference is which note you start and end with.

I think I started a thread a while back asking how to approach soloing on this song.

[Tele The Truth]

Then it really splitting hairs then since D mixolydian is simply a mode of G. IMO, while you may be thinking mixolydian while playing, the actual key signature would have to be G. You could work off of the C chord and play C lydian if you wanted to do something different, but ultimately the key still have to be G.

But like I said, it's all more less splitting hairs at that point.

[JPK]

I don't know about all this mixolydian talk, but one thing I DO know: it just AIN'T right to use "Sweet Home ALABAMA" as the jingle for KENTUCKY Fried Chicken.

What's next? "California Girls" as the jingle for the New York lottery? STOP THE MADNESS!

[Califiddler]

D mixolydian isn't a "mode of G" any more than it's a mode of Em or Em is a mode of G, or vice versa.

We tend to think that all songs are in either a major or minor key, but they're not. There are tons of fiddle tunes that aren't in either Ionian (major) or Aeolian (minor). Lots of them are in Dorian or Mixolydian. Take a fiddle tune like "June Apple", which bluegrassers play. The chords for the A part are A major and G Major. The chords for the B part are A major, G major and D major. The song is in A Mixolydian, the home base is the A chord. There are plenty of songs that work the same way, anything from "High on a Mountain" to "Dark Star", etc.

As opposed to June Apple (or Dark Star, I think), which stays on the A so much that it is the obvious home chord, SHA goes to that G chord and stays there twice as long as it does on the D or C chords, which kind of makes the G chord more the "home" chord than the D chord. I think that that ambiguity is one of the things that makes the song so interesting.

For soloing, is there one scale that you can play over all three chords? Does D mixolydian, or G major, or any other name that you can give to a scale with one sharp, work? It seems to me that when I listen to the solos, it's going back and forth between a more minor feel and a more major feel. Is the guitarist changing scales, or is it the same scale and the feel changes as it goes over the different chords? If you play a D Dorian, that F natural and C natural are going to sound like minor pentatonic/blues over the D chord, but over the C they're going to sound major and over the G they're going to sound mixolydian. Is that what I'm hearing?

[JPK]

"What'd you call me??? MIX-O-WHUT???"

[klasaine]

Originally Posted by TeleConvert

It is the mixolydian mode of D, if I'm not mistaken. D major scale with a flat 7th, which is the same notes as the G major scale, just starting and ending on D. I'm surprised that somebody like Al Kooper wouldn't have picked up on that. The use of the mixolydian mode is really pretty common.

Bingo. I'd love to know the "source" for the Al Kooper/Bloomfield "comments" because I assume they would both know that, and even if they didn't, the solo certainly doesn't sound out of key as Ed King plays right over the changes. I never understood what all the debate was about?

I also didn't know that Ed King was in the Stawberry Alarm Clock and played all the riffs on Incense and Peppermints. (GP mag this month).

[Tele The Truth]

Originally Posted by Califiddler

D mixolydian isn't a "mode of G" any more than it's a mode of Em or Em is a mode of G, or vice versa.

We tend to think that all songs are in either a major or minor key, but they're not. There are tons of fiddle tunes that aren't in either Ionian (major) or Aeolian (minor). Lots of them are in Dorian or Mixolydian. Take a fiddle tune like "June Apple", which bluegrassers play. The chords for the A part are A major and G Major. The chords for the B part are A major, G major and D major. The song is in A Mixolydian, the home base is the A chord. There are plenty of songs that work the same way, anything from "High on a Mountain" to "Dark Star", etc.

As opposed to June Apple (or Dark Star, I think), which stays on the A so much that it is the obvious home chord, SHA goes to that G chord and stays there twice as long as it does on the D or C chords, which kind of makes the G chord more the "home" chord than the D chord. I think that that ambiguity is one of the things that makes the song so interesting.

For soloing, is there one scale that you can play over all three chords? Does D mixolydian, or G major, or any other name that you can give to a scale with one sharp, work? It seems to me that when I listen to the solos, it's going back and forth between a more minor feel and a more major feel. Is the guitarist changing scales, or is it the same scale and the feel changes as it goes over the different chords? If you play a D Dorian, that F natural and C natural are going to sound like minor pentatonic/blues over the D chord, but over the C they're going to sound major and over the G they're going to sound mixolydian. Is that what I'm hearing?

I think that there's a generous helpin of blue notes in there that you are hearing. As for Alabama, yes it does start on D, but it stays on the D as much as it stays on the C or the G. I'll still respectfully disagree and say that the key is G and that D mixolydian is simply a mode working off of the 5th tone of the G major scale...and that it is relevant and related.

[Telemarkman]

Originally Posted by Chris S.

And as you will read (IF you click on the thread, of course ) the song is in D. Hope it helps, CS :-)

Sorry, link doesn't work at my end. And it was certainly not my intention flogging a dead horse, if that's what it is.

And even though I've always thought of the song's key as D, at least Ed King himself disagrees with us.

But my point was rather this : would the solos have been better if they were played in straight D as Al Kooper wanted ?

Personally I don't think so. The fact that the solos were played in G (or D mixolydian ?) is what make them special IMHO.

Originally Posted by klasaine

I'd love to know the "source" for the Al Kooper/Bloomfield "comments"

The source is Ed himself - read his website.

[Califiddler]

Originally Posted by Tele The Truth

As for Alabama, yes it does start on D, but it stays on the D as much as it stays on the C or the G.

No, it doesn't. Every time that it goes through the D - C - G progression, it's 2 beats of the D chord, 2 beats of the C chord, and 4 beats of the G chord. It's on the G chord twice as long as the D chord or C chord.

[Tele The Truth]

Originally Posted by Califiddler

No, it doesn't. Every time that it goes through the D - C - G progression, it's 2 beats of the D chord, 2 beats of the C chord, and 4 beats of the G chord. It's on the G chord twice as long as the D chord or C chord.

Yeah...I guess that's right ain't it.
All I was tryin to get across was that just cause it starts on D, that doesn't automatically make it your root.

[RCinMempho]

Wow! This is a whole lot hot air over a song in G that uses a flatted third and a minor seventh in the solos. Al Kooper was most likely stoned.

It's in G folks. The guy plays a classic country guitar solo with some pull-off triplets thrown in to fool you.

[Mad Axe Man From Hell]

Originally Posted by JPK

I don't know about all this mixolydian talk, but one thing I DO know: it just AIN'T right to use "Sweet Home ALABAMA" as the jingle for KENTUCKY Fried Chicken.

What's next? "California Girls" as the jingle for the New York lottery? STOP THE MADNESS!

It also ain't right that none of the three authors were actually from Alabama... ;)

[Telemarkman]

Chris, the link to the thread works now - WOW ! (I didn't understand half of it )

I'm so sorry for bringing this topic back to life....

[Chris S.]

Yeow! We are having fun now, aren't we? You can decide the song is "in" whatever key you want it to be. (You can also decide that red means "go," if you really want to.) ;-) But that G chord isn't functioning as a tonic, it's being used as a subdominant, which resolves back to the D. Which would mean it's in the key of ... well again, whatever you want to call it, I guess. :-| Personally, I think it's the pitch that resides between C# and Eb. ;-) And if I'm on a gig, and someone calls out "Sweet Home Alabama! In 'G-George' " and starts to count it off, I'm gonna open with a big fat G chord – followed by an F. (<--- And yes, somebody might wind up wearing that expression, and yes, it might be me; it sure wouldn't be the first 'train wreck' I ever had a hand in. Hee.) But hey, that's just IMO, FWIW, YMMV, E-I-E-I-O, and M-O-U-S-E. CS

[Tele The Truth]

[fakeocaster]

It doesnt matter . You can play D or G major pentatonic over it ( D E F# A B vs G A B D E).Theres only one note in the differance and once you dont use C or C# it can be considered to be either key


Aside from all that I find it one of the most outstandingly dull songs ive ever heard or played.unfortunately the audience allways ask for it

[RCinMempho]

Originally Posted by Chris S.

Yeow! We are having fun now, aren't we? You can decide the song is "in" whatever key you want it be. (You can also decide that red means "go," if you really want to.) ;-) But that G chord isn't functioning as a tonic, it's being used a subdominant, which resolves back to the D. Which would mean it's in the key of ... well again, whatever you want to call it, I guess. :-| Personally, I think it's the pitch that resides between C# and Eb. ;-) And if I'm on a gig, and someone calls out "Sweet Home Alabama! In 'G-George' " and starts to count it off, I'm gonna open with a big fat G chord – followed by an F. (<--- And yes, somebody might be wearing that expression, and yes, it might be me; it sure wouldn't be the first 'train wreck' I ever had a hand in. Hee.) But hey, that's just IMO, FWIW, YMMV, E-I-E-I-O, and M-O-U-S-E. CS

Sweet Home Alabama in G from the V.

[cacibi]

I always switch between G major and D Minor pentatonic when soloing over this tune. Why use one when you can use both?

[Chris S.]

Originally Posted by RCinMempho

Sweet Home Alabama in G from the V.

Well, I agree, that might very well keep the wheels on the tracks. Or it could be the first time I ever played "Sweet Home Alabama" with an extended V chord intro. And ending. (But this also could explain why some bands do something called "rehearse." I was actually in a band that did that once; I've tried to avoid any similar mistakes ever since... hehe) ;-)

Seriously, as long as everyone winds up playing the same chords at the same time, that's what counts, right? Heck, the chords don't care what we call 'em. ;-) Thanks for your patience and good humor. :-) CS

[Soupbone]

You can noodle whatever you want using D major pentatonic and it will sound like a half assed bar band version of the solo.
But if you noodle in G major pentatonic over the same D/C/G progression, it will sound MUCH closer to the original solo even if you arent playing the solo properly. Using D minor pentatonic? Preposterous. It will sound nothing like the original solo should sound. The whole good timin', major, happy feel will be sucked right out.

If you watch old Skynyrd footage, you can actually see Ed King in the 12th fret position playing much of that solo on the G major/E minor pentatonic box.

[cacibi]

Originally Posted by Soupbone

Using D minor pentatonic? Preposterous. It will sound nothing like the original solo should sound. The whole good timin', major, happy feel will be sucked right out.

Never said I was playing the original solo. Wouldn't want to, might as well spend my timing learning two minute Gilmour solos from The Wall note for note. Boring.

[Soupbone]

This song is in the key of D, BTW.

That is, if you were to chart it for an orchestra, its key signature would show two sharps.

[Soupbone]

Originally Posted by cacibi

Never said I was playing the original solo. Wouldn't want to, might as well spend my timing learning two minute Gilmour solos from The Wall note for note. Boring.

To each his own. However..

Woodsheding and learning solos from classic albums is what every monster player I can think of does.

Steve Via-Frank Zappa
Stevie Ray Vaughn-Albert King
Vince Gill-Albert Lee
Brent Mason-too many to name
Kirk Hammet-Uli John Roth/JOhn Coltrane

Transcribing helps with ear training as well as adding to your bag of licks. Without sounding condescening, you should try it somtime.

[Chris S.]

Originally Posted by Soupbone

This song is in the key of D, BTW. That is, if you were to chart it for an orchestra, its key signature would show two sharps.

I agree with you on the key, FWIW. :-) But I gotta tell ya – I think the last thing I'd want to hear an orchestra play is Sweet Home Alabama. -LOL- I mean, even the stuff I hear in the grocery store isn't that bad. CS :-)

[RCinMempho]

I'm having a lot of fun here.

I'm not really sold the orchestral sheet music would have two sharps, but I don't think it would really matter because the solo violin cadenza would still use a G-mixolydian with a Bb appearing in a cameo spot.

In any case, how does the F chord fit in? We can't ignore him. It wouldn't be right.

[Soupbone]

[quote=Chris S.;754450]I gotta tell ya – I think the last thing I'd want to hear an orchestra play is Sweet Home Alabama.QUOTE]
Haha indeed. Maybe throw in an opratic choir.

[TG]

Originally Posted by cacibi

Never said I was playing the original solo. Wouldn't want to, might as well spend my timing learning two minute Gilmour solos from The Wall note for note. Boring.

I like playing certain solos note for note, and as it happens, Brick In The Wall and Sweet Home are 2 that I do enjoy trying to 'nail'. Unique solos and fun to play. Rock Around The Clock is another one.
But for most things I prefer to improvise and experiment (luckily I'm in a band where I can do whichever I feel like doing).

I was wondering the other day about what key SHA was in and I reckoned D since you can noodle along to it in D and it still has the same vibe. Play along in G and it doesn't work.

[RCinMempho]

Originally Posted by Soupbone

Haha indeed. Maybe throw in an opratic choir.

Humph. It's already been done. Enjoy!

[teleman65]

It's key signature is G but it's tonality is D.