Squier '51 or Epiphone Jr.

GhostofJohnToad · January 11th, 2007, 02:21 PM

Looking to get a $100 guitar for some testing on. I want it to be ok but mainly I want the body and neck to be somewhat representative of more regular cost instruments. I realize they will not be the same I just want close. The guitar will ultimately be part of a physics experiment regarding either body resonance vs. amplified signal correlation or relation of body shape/size and tonal properties. I got it kinda narrowed down to the '51 and Jr. But if anyone has any other recommendations, I'm open.

Unless of course someone wants to donate some stuff to the study!

TG · January 11th, 2007, 02:36 PM

The Squier 51 I'd say. Its neck in particular is very good and 'up there' with many more expensive guitars. And people have been modding them up fairly easily to a 'reputable' standard.

I don't really know much about the cheap Epis, the be honest, but I don't think their 'bare bones' are as good as the 51s.

BradKM · January 11th, 2007, 03:19 PM

The quality of the materials and workmanship on my '51 are head and shoulders above any of the hundreds of Epis at the same price point that passed through my hands when I worked at an Epi dealer.

Soundwise, I'd say it's a toss up. Those $99 P-90 Epis did do their one tonal trick very well.

Jelly · January 11th, 2007, 03:53 PM

I was thinking this over myself yesterday. I've got one Fender, one Squier, one parts-Strat, and some left over parts. Just to go a different direction I'd probably go for the dog-ear Epi. But ultimately I think I'm going to put the 100 dollars toward a body-blank from Warmoth with the neck pocket routed.

GhostofJohnToad · January 11th, 2007, 04:02 PM

I think I might throw the Drive Wildfire X3 to the list as well. or maybe up the price range a small bit and look at the Hamer Flat top. Looks they all have pretty good reviews. I can't believe how many ok $99-$150 guitars there are!

studio1087 · January 11th, 2007, 05:03 PM

My wife bought me a blonde 51 this Christmas.

I bought an Epi LP Jr from MF.com about 2 years ago and sold it on ebay months later.

(I've had both guitars.)

The tuners on the 99.00 Epi's are awful. The bridges are cheap on the Epi's. It was very difficult to keep in tune and the neck felt cheap. The Epi was a kiddee guitar.

My 51 stays in tune, the neck feels good, the bridge is nice, the body is heavy and the tones from the two pickups (one having a coil splitter) are loads of fun.

I would not be afraid to use the 51 as a backup gig guitar; it's a real guitar.

Buy the 51. The amoeba pickgaurd is cool.

NEPATelecaster · January 11th, 2007, 05:52 PM

51 all the way...You don't like something, SOOOO easy to modd, I'm having a blast with it...

tele12 · January 11th, 2007, 09:41 PM

If you just want to do testing, why buy new? For $100 on Ebay you can get used Made in USA Peavey Predator strat copies in great condition. They are FAR better than ANY new guitar you can get for less than $200. I think they sound better than MIM Standard strats, although the tuning machines are kind of cheap. And after you are done you have a very good guitar.

GhostofJohnToad · January 11th, 2007, 10:12 PM

I was thinking about the ole ebay route, but the only problem is I won't be able to try it out. But I guess that doesn't matter for what I'll be ultiamtely using it for. Hmmm.

aznrambo481 · January 11th, 2007, 10:14 PM

i love my '51. modded a bunch (didn't have an appropriate drill bit so I had to file out a hole in the control plate for an hour), and sound delightful. Only problem is that the saddles rattle from too low strings. gotta get around to that.

Tim Armstrong · January 11th, 2007, 11:24 PM

Just gotta stand up for my newish $99 Epiphone Junior (P-90 version). I wasn't really expecting it to be such a fine little guitar! I put in a set of Schallers I got from a friend (at a friend price), swapped the cream dogear cover for a black one, and it's absolutely good to go!

I was particularly pleased with the neck. Feels really good!

Heck, I might even put a better P-90 in it (I hear good things about those GFS pickups!)...

Cheers, Tim

'caster oil · January 11th, 2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostofJohnToad

Looking to get a $100 guitar for some testing on. I want it to be ok but mainly I want the body and neck to be somewhat representative of more regular cost instruments. I realize they will not be the same I just want close. The guitar will ultimately be part of a physics experiment regarding either body resonance vs. amplified signal correlation or relation of body shape/size and tonal properties. I got it kinda narrowed down to the '51 and Jr. But if anyone has any other recommendations, I'm open.

Unless of course someone wants to donate some stuff to the study!

All due respect but, dude, you sound like a '50s mad scientist or something. What exactly are you going to test and what is the point? Are you serious? State credentials... sensing a hose job here...

GhostofJohnToad · January 12th, 2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'caster oil

All due respect but, dude, you sound like a '50s mad scientist or something. What exactly are you going to test and what is the point? Are you serious? State credentials... sensing a hose job here...

Not sure what you mean by hose job?

In a previous post I discussed the fact that I am an undergraduate Physics major and for my last class I have to do a research project of my choosing. I chose guitars, well because I could. I wanted to tackle an area that most people discuss and hopefully put some numbers to the discussion at a whole. I was partly inspired by an article in Physics Today by the founder of Rainsong guitars. Not mad science just a little research.

studio1087 · January 12th, 2007, 09:58 AM

The 51 with 2 pickups and the tap coil has more room for modification.

Do some crazy Frank-Zappa mods to it!

vic108 · January 12th, 2007, 11:34 AM

Try BOTH and see which one you like.
I bought a '51 and love it but the Jr is VERY tempting too!

Here's a fast and dirty vid on my '51

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...t=000_0821.flv

Sorry for the quality, i did it thru my digital camera....

RomanS · January 12th, 2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostofJohnToad

Not sure what you mean by hose job?

In a previous post I discussed the fact that I am an undergraduate Physics major and for my last class I have to do a research project of my choosing. I chose guitars, well because I could. I wanted to tackle an area that most people discuss and hopefully put some numbers to the discussion at a whole. I was partly inspired by an article in Physics Today by the founder of Rainsong guitars. Not mad science just a little research.

Dang, I wished I bookmarked that page I read a couple of months ago, about the resonance of different guitar body shapes - they had animated diarams depicting the 1st, 2nd, ec. order frequencies, etc, looked really funny with those flapping Strats, etc. It was a class project at some East Coast university, IIRC.
But if you'R into that stuff, you maybe know that page/project anyway?

GhostofJohnToad · January 12th, 2007, 05:49 PM

There's this one. This might be what you were thinking of Roman.

http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/g.../electric.html

allen st. john · January 12th, 2007, 05:59 PM

I think the 51 would be a more interesting subject. For one, you might try measuring the neck and body separately, and together and seeing what that reveals.
best
Allen

RomanS · January 12th, 2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostofJohnToad

There's this one. This might be what you were thinking of Roman.

http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/g.../electric.html

Yeah, I know that one
- but I think I've seen an other one, with similar diagrams, but with a Strat, an Explorer, and a semi-acoustic...

January 11th, 2007, 02:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
GhostofJohnToad Tele-Holic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toledo, Ohio Age: 35 Posts: 773 7 Photos	Squier '51 or Epiphone Jr. Looking to get a $100 guitar for some testing on. I want it to be ok but mainly I want the body and neck to be somewhat representative of more regular cost instruments. I realize they will not be the same I just want close. The guitar will ultimately be part of a physics experiment regarding either body resonance vs. amplified signal correlation or relation of body shape/size and tonal properties. I got it kinda narrowed down to the '51 and Jr. But if anyone has any other recommendations, I'm open. Unless of course someone wants to donate some stuff to the study!

January 11th, 2007, 03:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
BradKM Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 428	The quality of the materials and workmanship on my '51 are head and shoulders above any of the hundreds of Epis at the same price point that passed through my hands when I worked at an Epi dealer. Soundwise, I'd say it's a toss up. Those $99 P-90 Epis did do their one tonal trick *very* well. __________________ "Go Team Venture!"

January 11th, 2007, 03:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
Jelly Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 1,423 10 Photos	I was thinking this over myself yesterday. I've got one Fender, one Squier, one parts-Strat, and some left over parts. Just to go a different direction I'd probably go for the dog-ear Epi. But ultimately I think I'm going to put the 100 dollars toward a body-blank from Warmoth with the neck pocket routed. __________________ "I got on a bus and I went to Fresno because I thought Merle Haggard lived there."

January 11th, 2007, 05:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
studio1087 Friend of Leo's Join Date: May 2003 Location: Near Milwaukee Age: 44 Posts: 4,232 36 Photos	My wife bought me a blonde 51 this Christmas. I bought an Epi LP Jr from MF.com about 2 years ago and sold it on ebay months later. (I've had both guitars.) The tuners on the 99.00 Epi's are awful. The bridges are cheap on the Epi's. It was very difficult to keep in tune and the neck felt cheap. The Epi was a kiddee guitar. My 51 stays in tune, the neck feels good, the bridge is nice, the body is heavy and the tones from the two pickups (one having a coil splitter) are loads of fun. I would not be afraid to use the 51 as a backup gig guitar; it's a real guitar. Buy the 51. The amoeba pickgaurd is cool. __________________ JLG Carry On

January 11th, 2007, 10:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
aznrambo481 Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: La Jolla, California Age: 17 Posts: 2,885 6 Photos	i love my '51. modded a bunch (didn't have an appropriate drill bit so I had to file out a hole in the control plate for an hour), and sound delightful. Only problem is that the saddles rattle from too low strings. gotta get around to that. __________________ Check out my bands, and feel free to PM me comments on them! The Eclectics (guitar/vocals) SLIP (bass)

January 11th, 2007, 02:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
TG Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Beside a bog in the west of Ireland Age: 47 Posts: 4,733 7 Photos	The Squier 51 I'd say. Its neck in particular is very good and 'up there' with many more expensive guitars. And people have been modding them up fairly easily to a 'reputable' standard. I don't really know much about the cheap Epis, the be honest, but I don't think their 'bare bones' are as good as the 51s.

January 11th, 2007, 04:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
GhostofJohnToad Tele-Holic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toledo, Ohio Age: 35 Posts: 773 7 Photos	I think I might throw the Drive Wildfire X3 to the list as well. or maybe up the price range a small bit and look at the Hamer Flat top. Looks they all have pretty good reviews. I can't believe how many ok $99-$150 guitars there are!

January 11th, 2007, 05:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
NEPATelecaster Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Archbald - NEAR Scranton PA Age: 34 Posts: 1,155	51 all the way...You don't like something, SOOOO easy to modd, I'm having a blast with it...

January 11th, 2007, 09:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
tele12 Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NY Posts: 531	If you just want to do testing, why buy new? For $100 on Ebay you can get used Made in USA Peavey Predator strat copies in great condition. They are FAR better than ANY new guitar you can get for less than $200. I think they sound better than MIM Standard strats, although the tuning machines are kind of cheap. And after you are done you have a very good guitar.

January 11th, 2007, 10:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
GhostofJohnToad Tele-Holic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toledo, Ohio Age: 35 Posts: 773 7 Photos	I was thinking about the ole ebay route, but the only problem is I won't be able to try it out. But I guess that doesn't matter for what I'll be ultiamtely using it for. Hmmm.

January 11th, 2007, 11:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Berlin, Maryland, USA Age: 49 Posts: 10,295	Just gotta stand up for my newish $99 Epiphone Junior (P-90 version). I wasn't really expecting it to be such a fine little guitar! I put in a set of Schallers I got from a friend (at a friend price), swapped the cream dogear cover for a black one, and it's absolutely good to go! I was particularly pleased with the neck. Feels really good! Heck, I might even put a better P-90 in it (I hear good things about those GFS pickups!)... Cheers, Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

January 12th, 2007, 09:58 AM	#14 (permalink)
studio1087 Friend of Leo's Join Date: May 2003 Location: Near Milwaukee Age: 44 Posts: 4,232 36 Photos	The 51 with 2 pickups and the tap coil has more room for modification. Do some crazy Frank-Zappa mods to it! __________________ JLG Carry On

January 12th, 2007, 11:34 AM	#15 (permalink)
vic108 Tele-Holic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Mudwogweap, VA Age: 52 Posts: 947 9 Photos	Try BOTH and see which one you like. I bought a '51 and love it but the Jr is VERY tempting too! Here's a fast and dirty vid on my '51 http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...t=000_0821.flv Sorry for the quality, i did it thru my digital camera.... __________________ Guitars will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no guitars

January 12th, 2007, 05:49 PM	#17 (permalink)
GhostofJohnToad Tele-Holic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toledo, Ohio Age: 35 Posts: 773 7 Photos	There's this one. This might be what you were thinking of Roman. http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/g.../electric.html

January 12th, 2007, 05:59 PM	#18 (permalink)
allen st. john Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 739	I think the 51 would be a more interesting subject. For one, you might try measuring the neck and body separately, and together and seeing what that reveals. best Allen