The Grateful Dead or Phish?

[johnreardon]

Originally Posted by wierdOne

....


Before the Beatles..... there was nothing.... ;)

.

The Beatles changed the world...

.
Great Music isn't always about well the guitar player can solo... Ever listened to Ingvwee (whatever) Malmsteen?

Glad you liked them.

I was around at the time they came out, and to me they were a pop group who made it.

They may have changed the world for you, but not to others. We all have different tastes and opinions and all of them are just as valid as each other. You may say the band A is better than band B, but what's the point, it doesn't mean they are.

[Stuco]

Weird One,

Where on the topic of this thread do you see, What is the best band ever?

Cuz, I don't see it. Personally I love the Beatles but they are not a Jam Band. If you do not see why not then I'm not going to explain it to you.

Also, before the beatles there was not nothing, if it weren't for people like, Chuck Berry, Elvis, Buddy Holly, bob dylan, among countless others, you wouldn't know who the beatles were.

I guess ignorance still exists in alabama, who would've thought. (btw, I live in Alabama too)

[TDPRI]

I started the thread careening off course with my post. In it I mentioned the Beatles as number one on my list.

This was amplified from 1 to 100 when someone followed with the ABB were way better than the Beatles.

And the end result was WeirdOne stating not only how he felt but the truth as known to all mankind -- at least that's how I interpreted what he was demanding that we acknowledge.

Sorry for the hijack. My hand is raised, I am the guilty party.

I spent the day yesterday listening to the "Phish Brooklyn" Live 3-CD set. I'll spend today listening to the GB "Trucking into Buffalo" 1989 Live 2-CD set.

Paul Green

[Stuco]

Originally Posted by webmaster

I spent the day yesterday listening to the "Phish Brooklyn" Live 3-CD set. I'll spend today listening to the GB "Trucking into Buffalo" 1989 Live 2-CD set.

Paul Green

That "trucking into Buffalo" is great isn't it.

[1293]

Originally Posted by webmaster

I'll spend today listening to the GB "Trucking into Buffalo" 1989 Live 2-CD set.

I was at that concert. It was the coldest, wettest 4th of July ever. My friend and I were arguing whether they would play "Cold Rain and Snow" or "Looks Like Rain". IIRC, They played both.

I haven't seen the video. I swore off GD Merchandise after they pulled the plug on the soundboard downloads on archive.org.

[Skully]

They may have changed the world for you, but not to others.

They may not have changed your inner world, but they did change the world at large. That's just objective reality. People often go on and on about the importance of this musician and the influence of that group, and it's a bunch of hyperbolic b.s. When it comes to The Beatles, it's not. They had an impact like no other band.

We all have different tastes and opinions and all of them are just as valid as each other.

Not necessarily.

You may say the band A is better than band B, but what's the point, it doesn't mean they are.

This is true. As a rule, it's much wiser for people to say they "prefer" a band, rather than saying it is "better" than another.

But someone posted that the Allmans are better than the Beatles. That's so silly, it doesn't even merit a comment beyond Better jammers, yes. Better musicians, technically speaking, yes. Compare the body of work, the creative innovation involved, the influence, both musically and culturally, the songwriting, there's just no contest. It's The Beatles all the way. They're in another league.

[1293]

Originally Posted by Skully

But someone posted that the Allmans are better than the Beatles. That's so silly, it doesn't even merit a comment beyond Better jammers, yes. Better musicians, technically speaking, yes. Compare the body of work, the creative innovation involved, the influence, both musically and culturally, the songwriting, there's just no contest. It's The Beatles all the way. They're in another league.

+1

I love the ABB. I listed Fillmore East in the go to album thread. BUT... they really didn't innovate much. Did they invent "Southern Rock"? Maybe, I don't know, I'm not that scholarly when it comes to these things. I don't think the Beatles did much innovating in their early years, but they kicked it into high gear later, for sure.

[durango jon-boy]

To "the wierd one"
You make it sound like what the Allman Brothers and the Grateful Dead did was easy. The Allman Brothers Band could jam a 15 minute solo on slide and Dickey Betts could write some amazing instrumentals. Listen to In Memory of Elizebeth Reed, Jessica and the Mountain Jam

Sure. The Beatles got famous off being pretty and playing simple songs like Hard Days Night and I wanna hold your hand and , I'll admit, they got better. George Harrison is one of my favorite guitarists. But the Beatle probably entertained more half baked, pot smoking hippies than all three bands(Phish, Grateful Dead and ABB) combined. Remember, they had an international audience because they were a pop band.

[brillocaster]

Widespread Panic is my personal favorite, although I like both the Dead and Phish very much indeed. At the very least the Panic should get a mention on this forum for the fact that when Michael Houser (RIP) was alive he played Teles pretty exclusively.

[Charlie Bernstein]

...to get Jeff fired...

[wierdOne]

I hate flame wars, and I'll finish with this comment.

durango jon-boy: Anyone who has ever been in a band situation knows and understands the difficult dynamics that an entire group of musicians faces each and every night they step on stage. I am not from the south, and honestly.... I am not a big fan of southern rock.... (mainly due to Lynard Skynard)... I do however LOVE the ABB... They are masters of the stage, and other than Santana (pre-Supernatural album) I don't think I've seen a better live show.

In fact, Little Martha is one of my favorite pieces of music...

The Beatles, on the other hand, sucked live. As far as I understand it, as soon as they heard themselves (over the screaming of the teenie-boppers), and how horrible they actually were at playing music... they quit playing live shows and focused on album making.... this is where things got interesting... They realized that their audience was young girls... and that no one respected their music.... so... rich beyond their wildest dreams, they focused every ounce of their energy on writing valid music.... Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club, the White Album, Let It Be, and Abbey Road were arguably the most important musical recordings of the 20th century....

Without these records there would be no Dark Side of the Moon, Axis Bold as Love, In Memory of Elizabeth Reed, Starship Trooper, Warpigs, Ride the Lightning..... etc...


Stuco:

I am not from Alabama, but I do love the people that live there... From what I've seen they're honest, hard working people that live for each others companionship. I've lived in Seattle, New Orleans, Chicago, North Carolina, Washington D.C., Northern Florida, Canada, and Japan.... I'd be willing to bet that you won't find a larger population of honorable and honest people than in Southern Alabama. It's funny, that everywhere I lived (even in this last week I've spent in San Francisco for MacWorld), everyone seems to have such a deep hatred for the South... especially Alabama. I've heard countless jokes about the residents there and how ignorant they are..... I will not retaliate to your accusation regarding my ignorance, as I am not counting on your apprasial on my intelligence level to make me feel good about myself. Some people might not be as understanding as me, so.... next time.... please read the entire post and make sure you understand what is being discussed before you start questioning other peoples intelligence levels.

[Stuco]

I did read the whole post. I never said anything about intelligence, just ignorance. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings so much.

Also, if you read my entire post, you'd see that I stated that I LIVE IN ALABAMA.

Lighten up

[1293]

Originally Posted by wierdOne

The Beatles, on the other hand, sucked live. As far as I understand it, as soon as they heard themselves (over the screaming of the teenie-boppers), and how horrible they actually were at playing music... they quit playing live shows and focused on album making.... this is where things got interesting... They realized that their audience was young girls... and that no one respected their music.... so... rich beyond their wildest dreams, they focused every ounce of their energy on writing valid music.... Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club, the White Album, Let It Be, and Abbey Road were arguably the most important musical recordings of the 20th century....

Without these records there would be no Dark Side of the Moon, Axis Bold as Love, In Memory of Elizabeth Reed, Starship Trooper, Warpigs, Ride the Lightning..... etc...

I think you nailed it.

[durango jon-boy]

The wierd one, (not trying to argue, just discussing)
The Beatles were good in their latter years. However I seriosly disagree that there would be none of the albums and songs that you listed with out The Beatles. A lot of that music was set in motion long before The Beatles made their good albums. (with a few exceptions)

Pink Floyd has been around just as long as as Beatles. Elizebeth Reed was a jazz/blues song not inspired by The Beatles. Dickey Betts wrote that song for Boz Scaggs' girlfriend(who Dickey was having an affair with)And Black Sabbath were anti-Beatles.

If the argument you are making is that The Beatles opened more doors for musicians, you're right but not all things are inspired by The Beatles. The Beatles did't invent rock and roll, they made it more socially acceptable.

[rdchapman]

Trey never really impressed me like Garcia. He had a lot of depth to his playing in differing styles ( with Grisman and others) and his song choices with the dead were great. Phish always struck me as rather one dimensional. Don't care for Trey's tone either.
richard

[durango jon-boy]

I like Trey when his playing is soulful. But if he just plays to fill time, his playing can become annoying. But I guess thats true for any guitar player.

[Heather Anne Peel]

I like Phish, but I prefer The Dead. Jerry Garcia was great, but Bob Weir is totally amazing. I loved the interplay he and Jerry had together, it was something very special.

[wierdOne]

Pink Floyd has been around just as long as as Beatles. Elizebeth Reed was a jazz/blues song not inspired by The Beatles. Dickey Betts wrote that song for Boz Scaggs' girlfriend(who Dickey was having an affair with)And Black Sabbath were anti-Beatles.

As far as Pink Floyd is concerned, Storm Thorgerson (lead graphic designer responsible for the majority of Pink Floyds art) is quoted " Syd was one of the first to get into The Beatles and the Stones. Syd started playing guitar around then..."

directly from the pages of the Allman Brothers biography... "Duane and Gregg Allman loved soul and R&B, although they listened to their share of rock & roll, especially as it sounded coming out of England in the mid-'60s. Their first group was a local Daytona Beach garage band called the Escorts, who sounded a lot like the early Beatles."


And I personally watched this interview with Ozzy Osbourne.... "when I heard the Beatles, I wanted to become one.. I wanted to be a Beatle.".... and "Revolver is my favorite british album of all time...."

[scudgebucket]

Quote:
I'll agree that the Allman Brothers Band is better than both of them. Definitly better than the Beatles.

---------------------
Sorry, this will not hold up in court....



....and I peaked at the answer: its the Grateful Dead.

[OutlawSteph1975]

Originally Posted by wierdOne

The Beatles, on the other hand, sucked live.. and that no one respected their music....

I guess the BYRDS were "no one" then.

Before the Beatles, the guys who became the Byrds were playing folk music, and the really cool dudes, Chris Hillman and Clarence White, were playing bluegrass. The Beatles inspired them to be a rock band because they thought it was cool to do so and because they had a whole lot of respect for what they were doing with electric instruments. The respect was obviously mutual. I'm sure they liked the girls too!

Now on the jam band issue, I really don't like jam bands at all. I can't listen to the Grateful Dead and Phish. But I'd never say that no one respected their music or that they weren't good live bands because that would be intellectually and musically wrong. However, many people associated with the northern California music scene would go onto play bluegrass with guys associated with the Byrds. Go check out the Muleskinner DVD with David Grisman and Clarence White.

If you don't like southern rock, go listen to the Flying Burrito Brothers which combined southern music and Florida musicians with the California country rock culture and music. That's the roots of what the media called southern rock. Then go listen to the Outlaws who were inspired by the Flying Burrito Brothers, the Byrds, Poco, as well as a jam band from northern California called Moby Grape. Yet the Outlaws are considered southern rock? Why is that?

So, it all comes back around. It's really never right to say just because you don't like something that they don't matter.

[jjkurtz]

I'm going with the Dead since Jerry's Oregon State Prison sets made me pick up a guitar.

[wierdOne]

Wasn't Clarence White hired on after the Byrds were famous? I thought he was, but maybe not..

Lighten up

Stucco,

Dude, I take music VERY seriously. I won't go into the story, but playing guitar saved my life.... When I was 25 I came to a crossroads... I was asked to join a touring band... I was dating a young girl at the time that I knew was "the one".... so faced with life on the road and the chance to be famous, or life with her... I chose her... and never looked back... I'm still friends with members of that band, and they're out there 4 nights a week promoting their records... I play music locally for half of my living, and have sadly watched the music scenes (everywhere) slowly collapse under the pressures of our incredibly technically diverse society.... We, as a musical society, are just now learning how to use this technology to our advantage though... just look at the success of Bonarroo. More success will surely follow.

In the meanwhile, I (as do many other musicians I know) feel like we're waging a war against the record companies, mtv, and clearchannel radio stations. The more crap that they promote, the further society falls away from (what many consider) "good" music. It's our jobs, as musicians, to act as historians of music and educate the public as to what has come before us... If we're not even educated enough to understand the natural evolution of music, then they're winning.... So... I do take music VERY serious... and that's why it's interesting to see threads like this.. among musicians, who do we like and why?

From the majority of the posts I've read, it looks like people respect the Dead because they were around for so long.... "they were here first" and "they were doing it before everyone else was" kind of thing... which is all well and good...

It's almost like comparing Louis Armstrong to Miles Davis... Sure Louis is known as the "Father of Jazz" and "There wouldn't be Jazz if it weren't for Armstrong"... which is actually, probably 100% true.... but... Miles Davis took the torch and RAN with it.... He ran A LOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGG way too.... I respect Louis, but i love Miles...

Chuck Berry's been mentioned... He rocked first... But Elvis made EVERYONE want to be a rock star....

Elvis made EVERYONE want to be a rock star.... but the Beatles made EVERYONE want to be in a band...

The Beatles.... I respect them... (and love them too..)... but the flood of music that came after them was amazing... I LOVE Yes... and ABB... and Talking Heads... and the Police.... etc...


I, personally, have a great deal of respect for the Dead as they were going into uncharted waters and their music is great to listen to....... BUT... I think that Phish picked up the torch and ran with it... I enjoy listening to Phish more than the Dead, because of this... the same way that I enjoy listening to Miles more than Louis....

or the same way that some of you enjoy listening to the ABB more than the Beatles...

But this doesn't mean that I think that Phish is "Better" than the Dead.... and I certainly would never say that..... So when someone says that anyone is "Better" than another band... yes... I do take it seriously... because we all should....

a few weeks back there was a post about Redd vs. Brad vs. Urban... I posted that I liked Brad more because I had seen him live.... i had some sort of connection to him.... but it's all opinion.... Redd came first.... but I liked Brad... the beatles came first... but you like the ABB...

as long as we, as musicians, all understand the history..... then we've got a chance educating more people......

[wierdOne]

I'm going with the Dead since Jerry's Oregon State Prison sets made me pick up a guitar.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!! that is SOOOOOOOOO Awesome.... I'm glad that someone else has heard that..... do you have a copy?

[E.D. Patton]

False dilemma.

+1

I don't see those two bands as being interchangeable, or even similar in any way.