Have you seen what 70's Fenders are bringing?

[fierce_carrot]

I was going thru the newest Vintage Guitar and almost fell outta my chair when I started looking at the prices for 70's Fenders! The vintage guitar market used to be about quality....now it's just about being "old".

[endzone]

In the Q & A column of the December (yea that's right) issue of Vintage Guitar magazine, George Gruhn commented that the 70's guitars, while they "have proven to be excellent investments over the past 10 years, we don't feel the instruments from this period are even remotely near the quality of earlier examples or of more recent examples for that matter."
I think he was trying to politely say that people are stupid to be paying the money they are for 70's Fenders. I agree.
I have said for awhile, this whole vintage guitar thing is going to come crashing down one day soon and there's going to be alot of people left holding an old guitar that's worth a fraction of what they paid for it.
This is almost like the internet bubble in the 90's.

[Heather Anne Peel]

The only actual '70s guitar I own is my original 1970 Ampeg Dan Armstrong, which has more than doubled in value since I bought it in April 1991. My other "'70s" guitars are re-issues. Vintage guitar prices are insane these days!

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by fierce_carrot

I was going thru the newest Vintage Guitar and almost fell outta my chair when I started looking at the prices for 70's Fenders! The vintage guitar market used to be about quality....now it's just about being "old".

80's Fenders soon to go up in price, mark my words. At least those are good guitars.

[captain gorgeous]

it's weird how it doesn't seem to affect gibson so much isn't it?

a buddy of mine was looking at 70s gibson acoustics recently and couldn't believe how cheap they were. then he discovered what low esteem they were and are still held in and backed off.

[Mike Dickerson]

If you find a fairly light weight tele from the 70's, it will hold its own with teles from any era. There were dogs from any time period also.

[TG]

I don't think quality has alot to do with it in most cases. People are paying that much for the status of having a 'real' pre-FMIC Fender, or for 'investment' considerations.

[0le FUZZY]

George Gruhn commented that the 70's guitars, while they "have proven to be excellent investments over the past 10 years, we don't feel the instruments from this period are even remotely near the quality of earlier examples or of more recent

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA !!!

[Rich Rice]

I loved my '72 Thinline, but just sold it due to its value on the aftermarket, and my not having played it for months on end. It sure feels good to have my bills current and have some dough in the bank.

[stephent2]

Cool, I've got a '76 refin that's under 7lbs.

eBay, here we come.

[jahmbi]

I too feel the collector's market won't last that much longer. Without any real information to back me up, my gut says the prices are driven largely by men in their fifties and early sixties who are romantic for their past and at the peak of their earning potential. Once that segment ages past caring I think the market will flatten then drop because I don't see younger people holding the same perspective.

Celebrity memorabilia will probably always hold its value, though the hot list will change over the years ("Scotty Moore? Who cares? THIS was owned by Trey Anastasio!).

I am, however, about to try and cash out on my '72 Tele and will take whatever I can get. So there's that.

[endzone]

Regardless of quality and arguments over how good a 70's Fender is, the lure and fascination is still there. I'm going to the Arlington Guitar Show tomorrow and while I might not come home with anything, if a good deal on a 70's Tele is to be had, you can bet I'll snatch it up.

[DougieLove]

Well, I admit that I probably paid more than I should have for my '71 Tele, but this was a guitar I just HAD to have...the date stamped on the neck is my birthday. So, for that reason, I was willing to pay the price.

[51tele]

Not to change the subject--- but --- Heather Anne Peal--do you know that I was working in a music store in New Orleans in 1970 when the Dan Armstrong came out. The list price was 290.00--cost was 145.00. My boss told me that these guitars could not be discounted because they were so hot.About a month after they were in the store I had a guy come in and trade a 59 les paul for one --- so I ended buying the les paul for 290.00------I'll bet that guy is just sick right about now---come to think of it I am too----just my .02

[Stuco]

Are the 70s teles better than the brand new MIA ones in your opinion.

[J-man]

Bah its always been age over quality, when was the last time you heard someone say they played a 50's Tele and it was a dog? The entire time I've been here I have never heard anyone say that, and I don't believe for a second the build quality was that consistent.

[Heather Anne Peel]

The Ampeg Dan Armstrong is a really cool guitar, but not eveyone's cup of tea. It is mine, however. My new 2006 RI is every bit as great as my '70 original.

[Rich Rice]

Originally Posted by J-man

Bah its always been age over quality, when was the last time you heard someone say they played a 50's Tele and it was a dog? The entire time I've been here I have never heard anyone say that, and I don't believe for a second the build quality was that consistent.

While I agree with you for the most part, you have to figure that the best ones have been maintained (for the most part), the mediocre ones have had time to be upgraded or adjusted to play well, and most of the dogs have gone out to pasture..

[endzone]

Originally Posted by Stuco

Are the 70s teles better than the brand new MIA ones in your opinion?

I know back in the 70's I didn't like Fender's. But I'm not sure that I really knew that much about how to judge quality when I was a "whippersnapper". I just wouldn't play anything unless it was a Gibson. With that said, I haven't played enough 70's Fenders lately to compare them to todays guitars. But I do think that the quality of today's guitars is VERY good and compare well with many 60's guitars. (I can't remember ever playing a 50's Tele other than just strumming one in a shop) So I would have to trust George Gruhn's opinion on that subject.

[Home Grown Tele]

Originally Posted by tiktok

80's Fenders soon to go up in price, mark my words. At least those are good guitars.

They already are! I've seen 80's MIJ Strats going for $700+ recently and I can tell ya they were nowhere near that expensive back when I got mine!

Unfortunately I've ruined any "collectors value" for it by refinishing it umpteen times and changing the pickups since then, but don't really care cause I won't be selling it anyway, it plays toooo good!!

Man, who would have thought "back in the day" that these guitars would jump to these types of prices! I could kick myself for all the trades, sales and pawning of the instruments I owned over the years!

[0le FUZZY]

when was the last time you heard someone say they played a 50's Tele and it was a dog?

... I reckon yew ain't red all my posts but I'll say it again. The worst feelin and soundin TELECASTER I ever played waz a 1955 and I played it in 1956.

...Ats why I hadda laff at watt 0le George G. said above.

...More inner-mess hype a goin on here as alwayz. The late 60s and 70s TELECASTERs were of much better quality and more consistant than any of the old wons were.

...Jeeze-O, don't any won here member the olden daze with a TELECASTER er Esquire????


0le FUZZY`

[fierce_carrot]

I've got an 81 Les Paul Goldtop

starting bid is $25,000....

lol

[endzone]

Originally Posted by 0le FUZZY

... I reckon yew ain't red all my posts but I'll say it again. The worst feelin and soundin TELECASTER I ever played waz a 1955 and I played it in 1956.

...Ats why I hadda laff at watt 0le George G. said above.

...More inner-mess hype a goin on here as alwayz. The late 60s and 70s TELECASTERs were of much better quality and more consistant than any of the old wons were.

...Jeeze-O, don't any won here member the olden daze with a TELECASTER er Esquire????


0le FUZZY`

OK, I'll have to trust Ole FUZZY's opinion. Does George Gruhn even play?

[microphonic squeal]

Originally Posted by jahmbi

I too feel the collector's market won't last that much longer. Without any real information to back me up, my gut says the prices are driven largely by men in their fifties and early sixties who are romantic for their past and at the peak of their earning potential. Once that segment ages past caring I think the market will flatten then drop because I don't see younger people holding the same perspective.

About 10-20 years from now, expect the 80's pointy headed guitars to be commanding similar prices to what 70's fenders are today. Stock up on Charvels and Jacksons now!

[OutlawSteph1975]

I haven't seen Guitar Center's 70s prices lately, but I'm wondering what they want for this? They don't even put the prices on the website anymore.. you have to send them an email to get a price.

[endzone]

Originally Posted by microphonic squeal

About 10-20 years from now, expect the 80's pointy headed guitars to be commanding similar prices to what 70's fenders are today. Stock up on Charvels and Jacksons now!

I've heard others with the same prediction but I don't know. The logic is somewhat there but reality to me says that if there is an interest in vintage guitars in 10-20 years, it's still going to be the same ones that are driving the market now. Fenders, Gibsons, Gretsch and the likes. I can't see the pointy headed things demanding any serious money. Shred is a much too small of a piece of the market.

[Nick Fanis]

There is only one direction 70s Fender are going within the next 30 years and it is UP...WAY up....

As for the comment that 50s & 60s teles were "better" than the late 60s & 70s ones I am till holding my belly..it's been a long time since I LAUGHED that much...

Maybe Gruhn wants to buy a few 70s teles at a low price so that he can sell them at 10 times their cost in a few years.....(weren't guys like him that drove the vintage market in its present state??)

[endzone]

Originally Posted by Nick Fanis

Maybe Gruhn wants to buy a few 70s teles at a low price so that he can sell them at 10 times their cost in a few years.....(weren't guys like him that drove the vintage market in its present state??)

Real good point. I didn't think of that angle. I'd like to know how many 70's Fenders he has for sale and his prices. I'll bet he hasn't discounted them any just because he thinks they're not as good of quality.

You still have to consider the fact that CBS era guitars are known to be inferior. But a guitar is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by Nick Fanis

Maybe Gruhn wants to buy a few 70s teles at a low price so that he can sell them at 10 times their cost in a few years.....(weren't guys like him that drove the vintage market in its present state??)

Bingo. When these guitars were bringing nothing he had very little good to say about them. Now, when they are selling, all of sudden they seem to have improved in quality.

[0le FUZZY]

You still have to consider the fact that CBS era guitars are known to be inferior. But a guitar is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for

...Oh noe I don't !!!! After bean inside and out of hundreds of them from all years I cannot agree nor will I ever.

...Yes a guitar iss worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it and many are werth much more and sum much less.


0le FUZZY

[trag-o-caster]

I think that the Tele's were more consistantly better in the mid-70's than the Strat, and other models (with the 3 bolt necks, etc.). I remember back then, trying out Strats and hating about 9 out of 10, while the "regular" Tele's would all be quite fine. Maybe a bit heavy, but still fine.

I've played some late 70's Strats that would leave you wondering why Fender bothered to put their name on it.

Some of y'all may think that 0le FUZZY is nutz on this, but I'll back 'im up. The Tele's stayed pretty true, while everything else seemed to go to the dogs. I'll stick my neck out and say that I found the same thing with the P-bass, as opposed to the J-bass (but since I didn't play as many basses back then - this would be just a guess).

[endzone]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

Bingo. When these guitars were bringing nothing he had very little good to say about them. Now, when they are selling, all of sudden they seem to have improved in quality.

Actually, no. It's the other way around if anything. Gruhn said in his Q&A column that in spite of the prices people are willing to pay, he does NOT think the quality of 70's guitars are worth it. (paraphrasing)

[Kingtone]

I've been wrestling with this very dilemma the last few days. The asking price by some of the vintage dealers for 60s Teles are from around $9000 to $35,000, way outa my price range. Now the 70s Tele prices are starting to climb and I figure that in a few years they'll be up to $5000-$9000 or higher, the 70s Teles will be my last chance to own a non reissue Tele but I have to act fast or be priced right out of the market. I'm real close to taking out a loan to pick up a 60s or 70s Tele, my biggest problem is that I would want to play it not keep it locked up and sell when I retire. Maybe I should by 2. If only I would have kept my 68' and my 71'.....

[lostpick]

Originally Posted by Heather Anne Peel

The Ampeg Dan Armstrong is a really cool guitar, but not eveyone's cup of tea. It is mine, however. My new 2006 RI is every bit as great as my '70 original.

And Ron Wood was playin it with Faces and a young
Rod Stewart...VH1...BBC Crown Jewels Show

His tone was pure sweet grit....

What a sonic and visual treat that was...

could be on Youtube, haven't looked.....

[Nick Fanis]

I bought an early 1972 tele last year for 2100 euros (mind you that a new american series tele costs 1200 euros in Greece).
I bought it because the guitar was extremely light,with a beefy neck & a killer twang.
I have prepviously owned a 63 custom & a 61 & the 72 simply put played rings around them in sound & resonance (of course this simply happened it is no rule ,as it is no rule that all pre CBS guitars are better than the CBS)

I strongly prefer late 60s & early 70s (up until 74) teles than early 60s (I won't even mention the 50s ones since they cost more than a house) because of the flg reasons

1.Beefier necks
2.Beautiful decal
3.Poly finish
4.Twangier pickups
5.The best saddles of them all (grooved steel)
6.Most of them are pretty light too.


Now a year later my tele is valued around 4000 euros because of the custom color (oly white) & alder body & rarer rw fretboard,in fact a well known London shop offered me 4000 euros w/o consigment the last time they saw it...

So I don't think that prices will go down & 70s teles are reasonable "investments" also.

Of course she plays & sounds so good and LOOKS so cool..




that I'll never sell her...

[Nick Fanis]

Originally Posted by endzone

Real good point. I didn't think of that angle. I'd like to know how many 70's Fenders he has for sale and his prices. I'll bet he hasn't discounted them any just because he thinks they're not as good of quality.

You still have to consider the fact that CBS era guitars are known to be inferior. But a guitar is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

in fact he has a 74 tele for $4000 ,a 71 strat for $7600 & a 76 strat for $3750!!

[TG]

Originally Posted by endzone

You still have to consider the fact that CBS era guitars are known to be inferior.....

'Considered' inferior....not known.
Big difference.

[fierce_carrot]

Originally Posted by Kingtone

my biggest problem is that I would want to play it not keep it locked up and sell when I retire. Maybe I should by 2. If only I would have kept my 68' and my 71'.....

Thats exactly the reason I sold my 1955 Les Paul. It was built to be played and in the 10 years I owned it, it was always a go to guitar. It was a blast to let others play her, to see the admiration they had for that old girl. The reality hit home when updating my insurance policy with the current market value. It was okay until I told them I wanted it covered under my binder for taking my stuff out to bars to play. The number they came back with almost put me into shock.

At that point I realized that she was no longer a "musicians guitar" but had become a "collectors piece" and with a heavy heart, I sold her for MANY times what I had bought her for.

No more expensive guitars for me...

[Steve McGinnis]

Basically a swap. My heavy, player condition 72 (refret, bad hum route, huge neck pocket, wierd filler in holes (it was natural), boat anchor, sounded OK though) for a Custom Shop Nocaster Thinline. I love the thinline, it is miles better than my 72. Obviously the 72 would have been a better investment but I play the Nocaster and enjoy it much more than the 72.

[stantheman]

George Gruhn's entitled to his opinion and for that matter so's everyone else.
It's people like George Gruhn who inflated the price of a "musical tool" to such "Stradivarian levels" that the men and women who used the tools can no longer afford them.
I agree that sooner or later most of these lemmings (the collectors) will die off
or find something new to do with their money.
The best way to stop the madness is to do what Robin Trower did years ago
after he got ripped-off; QUIT "the vintage game".
All this crap started because people wanted the Guitars their heroes played
it had nothing to do with playability issues - if someone tells me that they cannot find a Guitar that plays as well as something from the 1950's I say to Them "practice".
I've sold "vintage" and collected it too (when it was affordable-in other words
within 10% of "new") but there's no way that ANYTHING is that superior
to justify a price that would put a kid through 4 years of college at a State
School.
Think about THIS; there's a bunch of certifiable nuts out there paying up to 5 times as much the price of an L-5 for a goshdarn mass-produced PLANK.
A great sounding Plank it is - but the skill level required in it's production compared to an L-5 is like comparing Robert Hall to Armani.
Get real.