My Ebay auction turned to Kaa-Kaa :(

[Rich Rice]

Man... I had a really great auction for my '72 Thinline, with 85 watchers on it, and the winner ruined the whole thing. I used to LOVE ebay, now it is populated with slugs and adders.

Upon completion, the buyer (lives in Italy) wanted me to accept a Paypal payment from his "trusted friend" in Boston, and send the axe to his friend at the Berklee campus. Of course, his friend didn't come up on the faculty list, and he has not contacted me. My other choice is to wait until the buyer flies to the US in October, and then he will pay me with his credit card. Paypal will take an $85 chunk out of that, and there is no guarantee that the payment will stick.

By extrapolation, the scene appears to be a credit card funded illegal business venture, as the buyer has purchased nearly $10,000.00 worth of guitars in the past two weeks, and refuses to pay me directly. I offered the option of accepting USPS money orders, to which there was no response.

Additionally, through investigating my options, it has come to my attention that musical instruments, and parts thereof, may not be shipped to Italy in the first place. This explains why he wants it shipped to Boston, for personal pickup. Interestingly, the top two bidders on my auction were both from Italy. The third highest bidder was from California. I would rather deal with the US buyer, and would net the same amount if he paid cash.

Problem is, he has been approached by three scammers offering 2nd chance offers, but ebay won't let me have his e-mail address or send any communication to him since the auction is closed. Their security is going to hurt him, and I can't help him.

In the meantime, I decided to offer him a second chance, and did everything through the proper channels. I never received a reply from him, probably due to his being leery of 2nd chance offers. I explained the situation in my offer, but highly doubt that he even opened the offer after the other scammers attempts.

Now I'm stuck with listing fees, final value fees, and the Italian buyer can leave neg feedback and report me as a Non Performing Seller. I still have my guitar, but now I have additional bills, instead of getting payment for a guitar I would not have sold- had I not been in a bind financially.

It was really great to see all the interest in my Tele, and I was overjoyed that it sold for a decent price, but now I'm worse off than before...

I've been on ebay since 1998, with a 100% positive rating. I guess I would rather take a hit on my reputation than lose the Tele, but *EBAY SUCKS*

[Big Mike Simpson]

Sorry to hear about that. Ebay and Paypal are not very helpful if things go wrong. I recently had a problem buying a motorcycle part that was misrepresented and paypal was no help.

On ebay I do not ship (or buy) internationally.

My listings always state:
Ships to: United States
I will ship to 48 states only... no Hawaii, no Alaska, nowhere else.... don't ask.

[popthree]

bummer, sorry to hear of your 'bay troubles

maybe you should try craigslist. i've had good luck selling that way

i still ebay some, but more from a buyer perspective these days.

[neocaster]

Hi Rich,
I can't find the completed auction, but if you state payment terms in the body (within 10 days, or anything of that nature) can't you just let that timeframe expire, claim the winner as a nonpaying bidder, and relist without additional fees?

Good luck.

[Rich Rice]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESO%3AIT&rd=1

I didn't put all the CYA crap in there, I usually do, but have been away from ebay for a while, and overlooked it. I haven't had this situation before, anyhow. My buyers/sellers have been nice to work with. This smells like either a scam, or something else shady to me. I do not want to sell it to this person now.

[Daddy Elmis]

It just is not worth the risk to go outside the lower 48 on eBay deals. I'm seeing more and more sellers requiring PayPal within 48 hours -- you either have the money or you don't.

[furrfurrfurr]

whatever you do, avoid the italy scam altogether.

i would try emailing ebay with the details and hope for some kindness. it can't hurt.

best of luck.

[Alaskan Fly Guy]

I don't understand what the problem is with dealing with Alaska or Hawaii? I have a hell of a time in Alaska with getting folks to work with us (Alaskans). I mean we are in the United States, hell I'm way closer to Seattle Washington then say New York, or Florida is for instance. We get our mail via the US post office just like everyone else. We also have UPS and FedEx deliveries just the same as anywhere else in the lower 48. I can understand the international problems but come on United States is the United States... I'm sure some of the problems is that most didn't spend much time in geography class. When I tell someone that I live in Anchorage, Alaska they say "oh you should have mentioned that beforehand. We don't do business outside of the U.S.". Go figure...

[Durtdog]

Originally Posted by Alaskan Fly Guy

We don't do business outside of the U.S.". Go figure...

Maybe they don't speak Alaskan.

[neocaster]

Hey Rich,
I looked at the unpaid dispute process, and regardless of your auction language, you can file an unpaid item dispute after 7 days of nonpayment:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/unpaid-item-process.html

I'd be surprised if one of two things didn't happen. I think your buyer will either agree to back out (in which case you get a credit for your fees) or validate the identity of their proxy. Remember that their bid is a bidning contract that does not mention a third party. Since the third party is not bound by contract, you are not required to deal with them. Insist on dealing with the buyer. If he insists on using paypal, insist he use a paypal verified address that you can ship to legally. It looks like you'll most likely get to relist for free. When you relist, you can specify lower 48 only.

[TDPRI]

I know that the international members here are going to cringe at this, but this is why I never sell to anyone outside the US. It's just too difficult dealing with all the issues when things go bad.

And, if I was in England I'd probably feel that way about dealing with the US. It's too far away to handle the details when things go wrong.

Simply report the guy as a non-payer and relist the auction for free but put the CYA stuff in this time.

Paul Green

[BLACKCAT69]

Originally Posted by Alaskan Fly Guy

I don't understand what the problem is with dealing with Alaska or Hawaii? I have a hell of a time in Alaska with getting folks to work with us (Alaskans). I mean we are in the United States, hell I'm way closer to Seattle Washington then say New York, or Florida is for instance. We get our mail via the US post office just like everyone else. We also have UPS and FedEx deliveries just the same as anywhere else in the lower 48. I can understand the international problems but come on United States is the United States... I'm sure some of the problems is that most didn't spend much time in geography class. When I tell someone that I live in Anchorage, Alaska they say "oh you should have mentioned that beforehand. We don't do business outside of the U.S.". Go figure...

That has to be frustrating. Doesn't surpise me the way the world is. People just don't get it!

[Rich Rice]

Originally Posted by neocaster

Hey Rich,
I looked at the unpaid dispute process, and regardless of your auction language, you can file an unpaid item dispute after 7 days of nonpayment:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/unpaid-item-process.html

I'd be surprised if one of two things didn't happen. I think your buyer will either agree to back out (in which case you get a credit for your fees) or validate the identity of their proxy. Remember that their bid is a bidning contract that does not mention a third party. Since the third party is not bound by contract, you are not required to deal with them. Insist on dealing with the buyer. If he insists on using paypal, insist he use a paypal verified address that you can ship to legally. It looks like you'll most likely get to relist for free. When you relist, you can specify lower 48 only.

I think you are right, that's my take on it, too. It's a hassle, but it beats losing my guitar, money, or both. Thanks for taking the time to check. I spent all day on the ebay seller boards, and searching my options. Arrrgh. That's pretty much why I thought I'd post this thread, to let others know what these guys are doing now, (and just to vent, 'cause I'm pissed).

[TDPRI]

Originally Posted by Alaskan Fly Guy

When I tell someone that I live in Anchorage, Alaska they say "oh you should have mentioned that beforehand. We don't do business outside of the U.S.". Go figure...

Hey, I feel for you. Believe it or not this happens with New Mexico too. Vast quantities of people in the US actually think New Mexico is not in the US.

For years, New Mexico magazine has had a running column showing examples sent in from New Mexico residents when their mail orders are cancelled because the seller doesn't sell in "outside the US".

Paul Green

[Tony]

Unfortunately, this does not prevent someone from out of the country from bidding on your item.

[Rich Rice]

Originally Posted by Tony

Unfortunately, this does not prevent someone from out of the country from bidding on your item.

True, but it gives you the right to summaril cancel their bids. Trouble is, if they play sniper, you may not have an opportunity to do so.

[Steve McGinnis]

Sorry about your auction. It happens on ebay for sure. I really think the 2nd chance stuff is a shame, they (ebay) should just give it up on that option.

I have had a couple of "bad" auctions, but I just relist and sell it again. I don't even bother with the refund because it is such a hassle.

I sell international. I think it is worth the hassle because 1. With the current exchange rate, you will get alot more for your item and 2. I really haven't had any more trouble with international than I have had inside US. I have the "would you declare it for less" stuff all the time (no, I won't), but that is it.

[DougieLove]

Originally Posted by Alaskan Fly Guy

I don't understand what the problem is with dealing with Alaska or Hawaii? I have a hell of a time in Alaska with getting folks to work with us (Alaskans). I mean we are in the United States, hell I'm way closer to Seattle Washington then say New York, or Florida is for instance. We get our mail via the US post office just like everyone else. We also have UPS and FedEx deliveries just the same as anywhere else in the lower 48. I can understand the international problems but come on United States is the United States... I'm sure some of the problems is that most didn't spend much time in geography class. When I tell someone that I live in Anchorage, Alaska they say "oh you should have mentioned that beforehand. We don't do business outside of the U.S.". Go figure...

I second that. It's added insult to injury when your shipping address is a United States Air Force base.

[Rich Rice]

Here's a list of their restrictions.

Country Conditions for Mailing - Italy

Prohibitions (130)

Albums of any kind (of photographs, postcards, postage stamps, etc.).

Arms and weapons.

Articles of platinum or gold; jewelry; and other valuable articles unless sent as insured packages.

Artificial flowers and fruits and accessories for them.

Bells and other musical instruments and parts thereof.

Cartridge caps; cartridges.

Clocks and supplies for clocks.

Compound medicaments and medicines.

Coral mounted in any way.

Ether and chloroform.

Exposed photographic and cinematographic films.

Footwear of any kind.

Haberdashery and sewn articles of any kind, including trimmings and lace; handkerchiefs; scarves; shawls, needlework including stockings and gloves; bonnets, caps, and hats of any kind.

Hair and articles made of hair.

Human remains.

Leather goods.

Lighters and their parts, including lighter flints.

Live bees, leeches, and silkworms.

Live plants and animals.

Nutmeg, vanilla; sea salt, rock salt; saffron.

Parasites and predators of harmful insects.

Perfumery goods of all kinds (except soap).

Playing cards of any kind.

Postage stamps in sealed or unsealed letter-post shipments.

Radioactive materials.

Ribbons for typewriters.

Roasted or ground coffee and its substitutes; roasted chicory.

Saccharine and all products containing saccharine.

Salted, smoked or otherwise prepared meats; fats; and lard.

Tobacco.

Toys not made wholly of wood.

Treated skins and furs.

Weapons of any kind and spare parts for them.




Who would have figured it? Sheesh...

[markophonic]

I only sell the lower 48....Alaska and Hawaii are asked to contact me prior to bidding. I've never had a bad experience selling to places elsewhere in the world its just a hassle dealing with shipping, customs etc. The shorter the trip, the better in my eyes.

Everytime I put a guitar up on Ebay I get MANY Inquiries about opening up the auction to other countries but I politely decline. If they bid I cancel the bid... I don't mean to be unreasonable I'm just more comfortable dealing on my terms.

[markophonic]

"Human remains." Wow...whoduh Thunk!

[Rich Rice]

I had a shipment going there for a customer (just a neck) and had to cancel the shipment and refund his money. It was just a hunk of wood... not radioactive materials. I don't care about the money, but hated to have to let him down after a long wait...