Learning Perfect Pitch, Fact or Myth?

Texsunburst59 · September 9th, 2006, 07:43 PM

This guy wrote an essay where he says you either have it or you don't. He says your wasting time and money trying to learn to have perfect pitch.
Anyone have perfect pitch? If so were you born with it, or did YOU learn perfect pitch? I'm really curious because I don't,but I think my son has it.I do believe so because he can pick out all the chords and noted of some really hard songs. Anyone have any opinions on this. Here's the link to the Essay.

http://www.jackgrassel.com/pages/perfect_pitch.html

jlrich · September 9th, 2006, 07:48 PM

I don't think you can learn it. I think you have to have it in you to start with.

J-man · September 9th, 2006, 08:15 PM

You have to be born with it.

Relative pitch can be learnt but perfect pitch is a gift you have to be born with.

Big Tony · September 9th, 2006, 08:31 PM

You're not "born with it", it's an acquired skill. Almost all people who have "perfect pitch" was trained before the age of five. The Western musical scale is not an absolute, but a cultural norm. It's like learning a language. In other cultures you have different pitches, and a person with "perfect (Western) pitch" will fail to identify those. It's not "genius", it's "learned culture".

/ Tony

Geo · September 9th, 2006, 08:47 PM

I think it can be. Many years back I was around a few people that had it,
tuning forks (more than today), learning harmonics and well tuned pianos.
Those type things helped me to the point of being able to tune without a
fork to A-440 perfectly. (Tuners were pretty rare, large and very expensive.)
That and be able to pick out correct notes and chords without an instrument
just hearing.
But now not being around those folks and those things as much, it seems
to drift in and out,. That and since that time have been exposed to a lot
of somewhat damaging noise, industrial, warehouse, loud amps and on.

sidneystreet · September 10th, 2006, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Tony

...You're not "born with it", it's an acquired skill. Almost all people who have "perfect pitch" was trained before the age of five. The Western musical scale is not an absolute, but a cultural norm...

I agree. The western 12-tone scale is not genetic. You have to be exposed to it, and then have a profound affinity for recognizing pitches.

It is much the same as assuming that a child prodigy pianist has an inherent wired-in knowledge of the piano. I don't believe that a genetic imprint of the workings of a piano are really involved. How could it be?

Brian blaut · September 10th, 2006, 01:37 AM

Texsun, nice fence in your picture.

endzone · September 10th, 2006, 01:46 AM

I had it when I was younger. But at 50, loud amps, guns (from hunting and target practice) and power equipment have ruined my hearing. I have a constant ringing in my ear now. Also, I have reduced hearing of low frequencies. My momma told me this was going to happen.

woodman · September 10th, 2006, 01:56 AM

let's say you could learn it, through countless laborious hours striving to make your body a tuning fork to sense the utter nuance, every jot and tittle, of a pitch. but what would that do to your Tele practice time? =8-0
;-)

bebopalula · September 10th, 2006, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodman1

let's say you could learn it, through countless laborious hours striving to make your body a tuning fork to sense the utter nuance, every jot and tittle, of a pitch. but what would that do to your Tele practice time? =8-0
;-)

to add to what woodman said:

i'd much rather have good relative pitch(accurate interval hearing,
which can be improved with practice) than machine perfect
perfect-pitch which you can reference via a tuning fork or tuner.

it's like trying to memorize exactly how big an inch is...
sure,it's a fun parlor trick, but that's what rulers are for.

woodman · September 10th, 2006, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bebopalula

to add to what woodman said:

i'd much rather have good relative pitch(accurate interval hearing,
which can be improved with practice) than machine perfect
perfect-pitch which you can reference via a tuning fork or tuner.

it's like trying to memorize exactly how big an inch is...
sure,it's a fun parlor trick, but that's what rulers are for.

+1!

cbnutt · September 10th, 2006, 04:58 AM

i dont know about perfect pitch, but man you have some cool amps there ! :)

woodman · September 10th, 2006, 05:07 AM

amps, schmamps! do they play in perfect pitch?!?!?!?

Texsunburst59 · September 10th, 2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian blaut

Texsun, nice fence in your picture.

Thanks Brian, I'm pretty partial to that fence myself. You know here in Texas we
can build a heck of a cedar fence. It's my Pride and Joy. I know the amps kinda blocked a good view of whole thing, OH WELL.LOL

Big John · September 10th, 2006, 07:25 AM

I'm really not sure you can learn 'perfect' pitch (or even that it exisits) but it is possible to learn 'relative' pitch, the more you play the more you are learning it without even knowing it !
I bet alot of us could recognize the pitch of our open 'E' string by memory, not perfect pitch, and how many times have you put new strings on, yanked 'em up to tension to find they are almost in tune ?

To be born with it seems pretty bizzare too, does that mean there is something embedded in us geneticaly to recognize the 12 note western scale ?, i don't think so.

Could you imagine how AWFUL 'perfect' pitch would be ?, every slightly out of tune guitar and vocal would send you crazy, still, it might help some pedal steel players

Big John · September 10th, 2006, 07:28 AM

Texsunburst59. are you going to try the Ole FUZZY trick and see if those amps float in that pool ?

jlrich · September 10th, 2006, 09:01 AM

I've heard that people with perfect pitch actually stay annoyed all the time. Every sound they hear that is not perfectly on pitch drives them crazy.

timgreene · September 10th, 2006, 10:05 AM

I dont know.

PeterUK · September 10th, 2006, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big John

I'm really not sure you can learn 'perfect' pitch (or even that it exisits) but it is possible to learn 'relative' pitch, the more you play the more you are learning it without even knowing it !
I bet alot of us could recognize the pitch of our open 'E' string by memory, not perfect pitch, and how many times have you put new strings on, yanked 'em up to tension to find they are almost in tune ?

Big John, you are right on the money with this statement.

I watched (in the past I've always helped) my son restring his Strat yesterday and realised that as he tuned to pitch, I could identify that each string was roughly there - in pitch. He turned to me and said "How do you know that?", and it's only now that I realise that I've developed relative pitch over the last few years.

Would I like perfect pitch? It might be useful, but with relative pitch, I can get most guitars sounding fine and I'm happy to let modern technology help me fine tune. Seems along time since pitch pipes! Remember them?

Peter

Texsunburst59 · September 10th, 2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big John

Texsunburst59. are you going to try the Ole FUZZY trick and see if those amps float in that pool ?

O.K. BJ, I'm gonna bite on this one. What the Ole Fuzzy trick to get my amps to float? By the way BJ, you know I live in Texas and I'm close to the Mexican border.These are Mexican Fenders that swam across the Rio Grand. Why do you think they look to relaxed by the pool.LOL

bobmac · September 10th, 2006, 12:22 PM

This is what separates the Titans (Jimi, EC, Page, Beck, Rory et al) from the rest of us mere mortals. They were born with perfect pitch - we were not.

herbman · September 10th, 2006, 12:36 PM

My Dad was born with perfect pitch. He was a piano player and could hear a tune once and play it perfectly. Yes out of tune stuff bothered him. I have relative pitch and really wish I had inherited his ear.
H

getbent · September 10th, 2006, 12:41 PM

Perfect anything always makes the red light go on for me... but, I've always admired people who had extreme facility and played with ease... The last time I saw James Pennebaker play (awhile back) he impressed me with his total comfort and facility as a musician and just seemed to be able to hear the whole thing... like a systems approach. I think human phenomena is facinating until it becomes voodoo then it becomes annoying.

It would be fun if playing was easier and everything came right to you...but everything I've ever found worthwhile added sweat rings to my hat.

Mark Davis · September 10th, 2006, 02:04 PM

A friend of mine who is a studio musician in nashville has perfect pitch. He can wistle notes and stop a tuner dead in the middle of the note. He can also hear a tone and tell you what note it is.

Its just like singing. Good singers are born singing good they can become better with training others who cant sing cant get any better no matter how much training. You have to have a good ear.

Tim Armstrong · September 10th, 2006, 03:08 PM

I thought perfect pitch was when you tossed a banjo into a dumpster and it hit an accordian!

I suspect that some folks have a stronger aptitude to learn perfect pitch than others, hence them seemingly "born with it", but I do think it's a learned thing. I know I've developed really good relative pitch (I can tell when my brother's guitar is out of tune!

), much better than when I was younger...

Cheers, Tim

September 9th, 2006, 07:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Texsunburst59 Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 355	Learning Perfect Pitch, Fact or Myth? This guy wrote an essay where he says you either have it or you don't. He says your wasting time and money trying to learn to have perfect pitch. Anyone have perfect pitch? If so were you born with it, or did YOU learn perfect pitch? I'm really curious because I don't,but I think my son has it.I do believe so because he can pick out all the chords and noted of some really hard songs. Anyone have any opinions on this. Here's the link to the Essay. http://www.jackgrassel.com/pages/perfect_pitch.html

September 9th, 2006, 07:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
jlrich Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Marion, NC Age: 42 Posts: 1,152 6 Photos	I don't think you can learn it. I think you have to have it in you to start with. __________________ MySpace YouTube

September 9th, 2006, 08:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
J-man Moderator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Wales/Scarborough Age: 20 Posts: 6,277 9 Photos	You have to be born with it. Relative pitch can be learnt but perfect pitch is a gift you have to be born with. __________________ Write a wise saying and your name will live forever. - Unknown "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away." - Tom Waits

September 9th, 2006, 08:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
Big Tony Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden, by golly! Posts: 2,522 28 Photos	Perfect pitch You're not "born with it", it's an acquired skill. Almost all people who have "perfect pitch" was trained before the age of five. The Western musical scale is not an absolute, but a cultural norm. It's like learning a language. In other cultures you have different pitches, and a person with "perfect (Western) pitch" will fail to identify those. It's not "genius", it's "learned culture". / Tony __________________ {8^)> myspace.com/tonypersson

September 9th, 2006, 08:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
Geo Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hendersonville, TN Age: 59 Posts: 2,483 15 Photos	I think it can be. Many years back I was around a few people that had it, tuning forks (more than today), learning harmonics and well tuned pianos. Those type things helped me to the point of being able to tune without a fork to A-440 perfectly. (Tuners were pretty rare, large and very expensive.) That and be able to pick out correct notes and chords without an instrument just hearing. But now not being around those folks and those things as much, it seems to drift in and out,. That and since that time have been exposed to a lot of somewhat damaging noise, industrial, warehouse, loud amps and on. __________________ "Somewhere between culture and agriculture"

September 10th, 2006, 01:37 AM	#7 (permalink)
Brian blaut Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Age: 34 Posts: 1,415	Texsun, nice fence in your picture.

September 10th, 2006, 01:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
endzone Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Louisiana Age: 52 Posts: 1,643 40 Photos	I had it when I was younger. But at 50, loud amps, guns (from hunting and target practice) and power equipment have ruined my hearing. I have a constant ringing in my ear now. Also, I have reduced hearing of low frequencies. My momma told me this was going to happen. __________________ *I'm Makin Progress*

September 10th, 2006, 01:56 AM	#9 (permalink)
woodman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mint Hill, NC Age: 62 Posts: 5,961	let's say you could learn it, through countless laborious hours striving to make your body a tuning fork to sense the utter nuance, every jot and tittle, of a pitch. but what would that do to your Tele practice time? =8-0 ;-) __________________ Truth is stranger than fact ... www.myspace.com/woodymitchellmusic BAND PAGES: www.myspace.com/stragglerswing (Stragglers - Western Swing) www.myspace.com/loafersgloryband (Loafers Glory - '70s country-rock)

September 10th, 2006, 04:58 AM	#12 (permalink)
cbnutt Tele-Meister Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: lebanon missouri Posts: 462	i dont know about perfect pitch, but man you have some cool amps there ! :) __________________ shoot low sheriff, hes ridin a shetland..........

September 10th, 2006, 05:07 AM	#13 (permalink)
woodman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mint Hill, NC Age: 62 Posts: 5,961	amps, schmamps! do they play in perfect pitch?!?!?!? __________________ Truth is stranger than fact ... www.myspace.com/woodymitchellmusic BAND PAGES: www.myspace.com/stragglerswing (Stragglers - Western Swing) www.myspace.com/loafersgloryband (Loafers Glory - '70s country-rock)

September 10th, 2006, 07:25 AM	#15 (permalink)
Big John Friend of Leo's Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Suffolk UK Posts: 4,691 36 Photos	I'm really not sure you can learn 'perfect' pitch (or even that it exisits) but it is possible to learn 'relative' pitch, the more you play the more you are learning it without even knowing it ! I bet alot of us could recognize the pitch of our open 'E' string by memory, not perfect pitch, and how many times have you put new strings on, yanked 'em up to tension to find they are almost in tune ? To be born with it seems pretty bizzare too, does that mean there is something embedded in us geneticaly to recognize the 12 note western scale ?, i don't think so. Could you imagine how AWFUL 'perfect' pitch would be ?, every slightly out of tune guitar and vocal would send you crazy, still, it might help some pedal steel players __________________ If you are going to be a bear, be a grizzly !!

September 10th, 2006, 07:28 AM	#16 (permalink)
Big John Friend of Leo's Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Suffolk UK Posts: 4,691 36 Photos	Texsunburst59. are you going to try the Ole FUZZY trick and see if those amps float in that pool ? __________________ If you are going to be a bear, be a grizzly !!

September 10th, 2006, 09:01 AM	#17 (permalink)
jlrich Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Marion, NC Age: 42 Posts: 1,152 6 Photos	I've heard that people with perfect pitch actually stay annoyed all the time. Every sound they hear that is not perfectly on pitch drives them crazy. __________________ MySpace YouTube

September 10th, 2006, 10:05 AM	#18 (permalink)
timgreene Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,257 10 Photos	I dont know. __________________ opinions expressed are the view of the author, and are not necesarily correct.

September 10th, 2006, 12:22 PM	#21 (permalink)
bobmac TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Thailand Age: 61 Posts: 53	This is what separates the Titans (Jimi, EC, Page, Beck, Rory et al) from the rest of us mere mortals. They were born with perfect pitch - we were not. __________________ "The engineer blew the whistle and the fireman rung the bell."

September 10th, 2006, 12:36 PM	#22 (permalink)
herbman TDPRI Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 32	My Dad was born with perfect pitch. He was a piano player and could hear a tune once and play it perfectly. Yes out of tune stuff bothered him. I have relative pitch and really wish I had inherited his ear. H

September 10th, 2006, 12:41 PM	#23 (permalink)
getbent Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: San Benito County, California Posts: 10,172 37 Photos	Perfect anything always makes the red light go on for me... but, I've always admired people who had extreme facility and played with ease... The last time I saw James Pennebaker play (awhile back) he impressed me with his total comfort and facility as a musician and just seemed to be able to hear the whole thing... like a systems approach. I think human phenomena is facinating until it becomes voodoo then it becomes annoying. It would be fun if playing was easier and everything came right to you...but everything I've ever found worthwhile added sweat rings to my hat. __________________ 'never pet a burning dog'

September 10th, 2006, 02:04 PM	#24 (permalink)
Mark Davis Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bakersfield Ca. Age: 58 Posts: 12,845	A friend of mine who is a studio musician in nashville has perfect pitch. He can wistle notes and stop a tuner dead in the middle of the note. He can also hear a tone and tell you what note it is. Its just like singing. Good singers are born singing good they can become better with training others who cant sing cant get any better no matter how much training. You have to have a good ear. __________________ I'm so blind my seeing eye dog needs glasses. Last edited by Mark Davis; September 10th, 2006 at 03:58 PM.