Car buying/contract question?

Colo Springs E · August 29th, 2006, 07:03 AM

My wife and I recently bought a car (a Scion tC) and I was talking with an employee at work about it yesterday at lunch. Another guy came up, said he'd just bought a Saturn, and he was really irked that he was having to go back in and re-do the paperwork.

The dealership had called him up, stating that they'd "made a mistake" and the way the contract was worked up, his new Saturn had been sold to him at a discounted price, which Saturn apparently doesn't allow. They told him his payment would "only be about $12 more per month." To him, it's of course the principle!

I asked if he traded in anything, he said he did, a late-model Monte Carlo. I told him simple, if they can't discount the Saturn, then they need to work up the contract to where they give him "x" more dollars for his trade-in, to make the monthly payment come out the same.

My question is, doesn't he have a contract? Isn't the dealership bound by it just like him? In other words, what if he says, 'screw you, I'm not coming back in to re-do the paperwork.' He said he thought that too, but that they're threatening that he'll never receive his payment book, the deal will be null & void, and eventually will be repossessed.

Does anyone know if this is legal?? If I was him, I sure don't think I'd ever use that dealer again!

I told him to go find an attorney, but does anyone here have contract law knowledge/car purchasing legal experience?

-eric

adylan76 · August 29th, 2006, 07:41 AM

Having just taken a year-long contracts course, my gut tells me that your friend's deal should stand up. Saturn's dealer is an experienced party; your friend hasn't taken advantage of them; and the problem really seems to be a miscommunication within Saturn, not a disagreement on the terms of the deal that your friend struck.

In that sense, the deal is done, and Saturn is now attempting to modify that deal based on its mistake. Sometimes a contract can be voided because of mistake, but not in this situation. (It would be a different story if, for example, your friend attempted to buy model "x," and Saturn drew up the paperwork for model "y.")

The problem is that Saturn is now threatening to breach , err correct, the contract, by repossessing the car. Normally, a bank would hold the lien on the car, not the dealer. Assuming that your friend's payments are due to the bank, your friend can probably contact the bank directly and just request a payment book from them, and the dealer will be out of the picture. (That's assuming that the dealer has already transferred the title at the DMV).

If the title is still in the dealer's name, and they're refusing to transfer title, then it's pretty clear that Saturn has breached, and Saturn would be required (in theory) to make your friend "whole." That is, they would either have to honor the deal, or they could pay him the difference between the deal that he struck and whatever deal he can get on the same Saturn at another dealer.

The trouble is, if this only amounts to a few hundred bucks, does he want to spend thousands on a lawyer and 3 years in court as Saturn drags its feet and throws up every procedural delay that it can? Probably not. Hopefully he has the title already, and he can just ignore them. He might also contact the state attorney general - they often look into auto dealer fraud. In the end, I think your friend is right to hold them to the terms of the deal (what Saturn dealer doesn't know the cost of its own cars?), but it could be a real headache.

TDPRI · August 29th, 2006, 10:03 AM

Here is what I would do. I would call the regional GM office and complain "officially" about the tactics of the dealer. GM (all car companies) divide the country into regions and all the activities of the region are overseen by that office. They have people there who's job it is to oversee the operations of the dealers and to nip problems in the bud before they go up to a higher level. Call your Saturn dealer, ask for the General Manager and then request the contact information for the Regional Office. That will get people going right away.

Write a letter the the state Attorney General and CC the general manager of the dealer and the GM regional office.

You'll see them back down in minutes. I would say, you'll be glad for them to redo the contract, but at the exact same price and monthly payment or they can give you back your trade and take back their car.

Colo Springs E · August 29th, 2006, 12:07 PM

....what he hadn't done yet is speak with the Sales Mgr. Apparently that guy told him it was no problem to give him "x" more dollars for his trade in, so it sounds like he worked it out.

Hopefully he's good to go... thanks for the responses.

shakedancer · August 29th, 2006, 12:29 PM

deleted

stevedenver · August 29th, 2006, 06:52 PM

contact a lawyer-

it wont cost thousands and
my experience is to set things out ASAP in a well drafted letter
so the customer doesnt get screwed by the several liars the dealer will conjure (im not prejudiced guys- i have represented these types and done collections many years ago-)

as one myself

simply the question is one of fact-

from your description (presuamably incomplete factually)
he was told one thing and agreed to it and now they are trying to unwind the deal-maybe??

if there was a meeting of the minds (12 a month) and not a clerical error in the original deal, then its a deal-if signed by both parites-

i wouldnt bother with GM complaints or self help...

an attorney will
1 analyse the deal and facts
2 know how to approach the dealer
3 indicate that the customer is not going to be a chump
4 make the dealership much more likely to honor the original deal by sheer threat of suit - turst me- these dealers will try to steam roll anyone

Joe-Bob · August 29th, 2006, 11:08 PM

No way I would let them re-negotiate the deal.

This sounds SO much like a scam it's not even funny.

genelovesjez · August 30th, 2006, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colo Springs E

....what he hadn't done yet is speak with the Sales Mgr. Apparently that guy told him it was no problem to give him "x" more dollars for his trade in, so it sounds like he worked it out.

Hopefully he's good to go... thanks for the responses.

That sounds quite dubious to me. I would strongly discourage him from doing anything with the dealer other than sticking with the original agreement. If he has any doubts or concerns, he should contact a lawyer, the Better Business Bureau or whatever local consumer advocate support is available in his area. I'm sure they will reassure him that he is rock solid sticking to his original agreement. From what you have described, the dealer has no legal means of breaking the existing contract. Nor can they repossess the car or withhold any paperwork that is due him.

DO NOT allow him to agree to any changes to his current agreement!

Rick S · August 30th, 2006, 01:40 AM

No mistake, definite scam. Your friend should go ballistic with this.

The call back scams usually involve financing and play out like this:

You sign a contract on a car and in the fine print there will be "pending financing" You leave your trade in, take the new car home and get a call a few days later and they claim there was a mistake in the financing and your payment will be higher. Usually they claim the mistake was in figuring your credit rating or something similar. Bottom line, they made up a payment on an unobtainable interest rate to make your payment appear lower.

To avoid this, always secure financing before signing a sales contract.

August 29th, 2006, 07:03 AM	#1 (permalink)
Colo Springs E Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 5,203 5 Photos	Car buying/contract question? My wife and I recently bought a car (a Scion tC) and I was talking with an employee at work about it yesterday at lunch. Another guy came up, said he'd just bought a Saturn, and he was really irked that he was having to go back in and re-do the paperwork. The dealership had called him up, stating that they'd "made a mistake" and the way the contract was worked up, his new Saturn had been sold to him at a discounted price, which Saturn apparently doesn't allow. They told him his payment would "only be about $12 more per month." To him, it's of course the principle! I asked if he traded in anything, he said he did, a late-model Monte Carlo. I told him simple, if they can't discount the Saturn, then they need to work up the contract to where they give him "x" more dollars for his trade-in, to make the monthly payment come out the same. My question is, doesn't he have a contract? Isn't the dealership bound by it just like him? In other words, what if he says, 'screw you, I'm not coming back in to re-do the paperwork.' He said he thought that too, but that they're threatening that he'll never receive his payment book, the deal will be null & void, and eventually will be repossessed. Does anyone know if this is legal?? If I was him, I sure don't think I'd ever use that dealer again! I told him to go find an attorney, but does anyone here have contract law knowledge/car purchasing legal experience? -eric __________________ Think I'll pack it in and Buy a pickup Take it down to LA...

August 29th, 2006, 12:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
Colo Springs E Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 5,203 5 Photos	Sounds like he got it worked out/resolved... ....what he hadn't done yet is speak with the Sales Mgr. Apparently that guy told him it was no problem to give him "x" more dollars for his trade in, so it sounds like he worked it out. Hopefully he's good to go... thanks for the responses. __________________ Think I'll pack it in and Buy a pickup Take it down to LA...

August 29th, 2006, 12:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
shakedancer Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: north of Boston Posts: 1,634	deleted __________________ "If you don't like the Blues, you got to have a Hole in your Soul." Luther Allison JOE

August 29th, 2006, 06:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
stevedenver Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: the mile high city Posts: 1,198 14 Photos	contact a lawyer- it wont cost thousands and my experience is to set things out ASAP in a well drafted letter so the customer doesnt get screwed by the several liars the dealer will conjure (im not prejudiced guys- i have represented these types and done collections many years ago-) as one myself simply the question is one of fact- from your description (presuamably incomplete factually) he was told one thing and agreed to it and now they are trying to unwind the deal-maybe?? if there was a meeting of the minds (12 a month) and not a clerical error in the original deal, then its a deal-if signed by both parites- i wouldnt bother with GM complaints or self help... an attorney will 1 analyse the deal and facts 2 know how to approach the dealer 3 indicate that the customer is not going to be a chump 4 make the dealership much more likely to honor the original deal by sheer threat of suit - turst me- these dealers will try to steam roll anyone __________________ Im really a Les Paul guy at heart, but .....

August 29th, 2006, 11:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
Joe-Bob Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Age: 46 Posts: 3,892	No way I would let them re-negotiate the deal. This sounds SO much like a scam it's not even funny. __________________ Music is the language of God.

August 29th, 2006, 07:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
adylan76 TDPRI Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 88	Having just taken a year-long contracts course, my gut tells me that your friend's deal should stand up. Saturn's dealer is an experienced party; your friend hasn't taken advantage of them; and the problem really seems to be a miscommunication within Saturn, not a disagreement on the terms of the deal that your friend struck. In that sense, the deal is done, and Saturn is now attempting to modify that deal based on its mistake. Sometimes a contract can be voided because of mistake, but not in this situation. (It would be a different story if, for example, your friend attempted to buy model "x," and Saturn drew up the paperwork for model "y.") The problem is that Saturn is now threatening to breach , err correct, the contract, by repossessing the car. Normally, a bank would hold the lien on the car, not the dealer. Assuming that your friend's payments are due to the bank, your friend can probably contact the bank directly and just request a payment book from them, and the dealer will be out of the picture. (That's assuming that the dealer has already transferred the title at the DMV). If the title is still in the dealer's name, and they're refusing to transfer title, then it's pretty clear that Saturn has breached, and Saturn would be required (in theory) to make your friend "whole." That is, they would either have to honor the deal, or they could pay him the difference between the deal that he struck and whatever deal he can get on the same Saturn at another dealer. The trouble is, if this only amounts to a few hundred bucks, does he want to spend thousands on a lawyer and 3 years in court as Saturn drags its feet and throws up every procedural delay that it can? Probably not. Hopefully he has the title already, and he can just ignore them. He might also contact the state attorney general - they often look into auto dealer fraud. In the end, I think your friend is right to hold them to the terms of the deal (what Saturn dealer doesn't know the cost of its own cars?), but it could be a real headache.

August 29th, 2006, 10:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
TDPRI Administrator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: TDPRILAND Posts: 5,576 36 Photos	Here is what I would do. I would call the regional GM office and complain "officially" about the tactics of the dealer. GM (all car companies) divide the country into regions and all the activities of the region are overseen by that office. They have people there who's job it is to oversee the operations of the dealers and to nip problems in the bud before they go up to a higher level. Call your Saturn dealer, ask for the General Manager and then request the contact information for the Regional Office. That will get people going right away. Write a letter the the state Attorney General and CC the general manager of the dealer and the GM regional office. You'll see them back down in minutes. I would say, you'll be glad for them to redo the contract, but at the exact same price and monthly payment or they can give you back your trade and take back their car.

August 30th, 2006, 01:40 AM	#9 (permalink)
Rick S Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 493	No mistake, definite scam. Your friend should go ballistic with this. The call back scams usually involve financing and play out like this: You sign a contract on a car and in the fine print there will be "pending financing" You leave your trade in, take the new car home and get a call a few days later and they claim there was a mistake in the financing and your payment will be higher. Usually they claim the mistake was in figuring your credit rating or something similar. Bottom line, they made up a payment on an unobtainable interest rate to make your payment appear lower. To avoid this, always secure financing before signing a sales contract.