Robert Johnson

[The Bone2]

Remember, Muddy was a contemporary of Robert Johnsons. He may be slightly younger, but not much. RJ born 1911, Muddy 1915. RJ died at a very young age. He very well could have been one of the early electric blues guitar players, he just didn't live long enough. Muddy's earliest recordings were acoustic, and he was playing basically a lot of the same songs, (Walking Blues, etc.). Muddy just decided to move to Chicago and then he was surrounded by a combo. There's the rub. So, if Muddy contributed, then clearly so did RJ. (IMHO). What is really cool to think about is truly how close a guy like Clapton and the Stones and even Led Zepplin are to RJ. I mean, these guys played WITH Muddy and Howlin Wolf, and Muddy was connected to Johnny Shines and Robert Jr. Lockwood who were truly RJ's contemporaries. Its very cool.

[Big Mike Simpson]

Robert Johnson was one of the first of a generation of musicians that was "less regionalized" due to recorded music becoming more available. For this reason his music contains more varied influences than many of his predecessors. As for his "innovation" it has been noted that all but a couple of the 29 songs, 42 takes, can be attributed to recorded music that was available for him to listen to and learn from in the years preceding his recordings. Robert learned much from Son house and Willie Brown when he hung around their gigs as a kid.

Robert Johnson does deserve accolades for assimilating his influences into his own product but should not completely overshadow his predecessors.

Check out Son House, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Tommy Johnson (no relation), Kokomo Arnold, Ismon Bracey, Scrapper Blackwell, Tampa Red, Bo Carter, Willie Newbern, Blind Blake and Lonnie Johnson (no relation) to name a few. Listen to the 1941 Library of Congress recordings of David "Honeyboy" Edwards who traveled and played with Robert Johnson. Also listen to Muddy Waters The complete Plantation Recordings.

If he had not died young would he be any more revered than his peers?

[Joe Harris]

The faster speed sounds like the strings are tuned to a higher tension. It's my understanding that way back when sometimes the engineers would sometimes request that the guitarist tune at a higher tension to makeup for the recording gear's lack of headroom...the bass strings would fart out and cause distortion. Food for thought.

[Heather Anne Peel]

Originally Posted by Big Mike Simpson

Robert Johnson was one of the first of a generation of musicians that was "less regionalized" due to recorded music becoming more available. For this reason his music contains more varied influences than many of his predecessors. As for his "innovation" it has been noted that all but a couple of the 29 songs, 42 takes, can be attributed to recorded music that was available for him to listen to and learn from in the years preceding his recordings. Robert learned much from Son house and Willie Brown when he hung around their gigs as a kid.

Robert Johnson does deserve accolades for assimilating his influences into his own product but should not completely overshadow his predecessors.

Check out Son House, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Tommy Johnson (no relation), Kokomo Arnold, Ismon Bracey, Scrapper Blackwell, Tampa Red, Bo Carter, Willie Newbern, Blind Blake and Lonnie Johnson (no relation) to name a few. Listen to the 1941 Library of Congress recordings of David "Honeyboy" Edwards who traveled and played with Robert Johnson. Also listen to Muddy Waters The complete Plantation Recordings.

If he had not died young would he be any more revered than his peers?

Over the past 22 years, I have heard and acquired recordings by most of the arisits you have listed and then some, all of which have been great. I am well aware of Johnson's influences (and I am similarly well aware of Chuck Berry's and Keith Richards' influences, both direct and indirect). That said, I still feel Johnson's music was the strongest of all of them, the most intense. And intensity is what I am after, over anything else.
Heather

[stevedenver]

well i agree with you heather and bill as well

and not taking away one jot from RJ

to me it was indeed due to the covers by the Stones and Cream that made RJ especially noteworthy as compared to his peers and contemporaries-these guys exposed RJ's music in a palattable interpretaion for many

-and as wonderfully described above-that 'first hit of whiskey' was softened greatly when contemporary bands did thier versions-modern sounds and more familiar voices-it was an invitation for many to listen more closely to the roots
( i can tell you that in 1968, as a 13 year old NONE of my friends were listening to blues-be it John Hurt RJ Lightining Hopkins Sonny Boy(s) or Muddy)

after all, back in the 1960's, how did so many muscians learn about some of these guys ???-well maybe underground FM radio-I once heard a great 'time progression' and many versions of willie Dixons Spoonful, ending of course with the Cream Wheels fo Fire version-all of which helped to educate me-

my point is that if you werent into the blues-but into main stream rock-this was an introduction-to millions-

and RJ was selected by 2 of the most popular bands in the world - i cannot readily think of anyone in the mainstream rock world who had covered him and polished thier own versions prior to Cream and the Stones

so many did elmore james covers ( who seemed to cover RJ a bit) but to me the disctinction is that depsite all-when you get monster popular rock bands covering 'some guy from the twenties and thirties' well that spotlight has carried on

[stevieboy]

Originally Posted by Big Mike Simpson

If he had not died young would he be any more revered than his peers?

That's an interesting question. Of course his death added to his legend and helped elevate him to mythical status.

On the other hand, had he lived, who knows what he might have accomplished. Perhaps he would have moved to Chicago, gone electric, started playing with a band, and been a part of that revolution. Or given that he seems to have been protective of his secrets, maybe not, but it's very likely that he would have written and recorded a lot more material. Interesting to wonder what might have been...

[stevedenver]

or faded into obscurity like son house did for so many years

[Mik]

Originally Posted by Billy Claire

Had a discussion with someone once about Robert Johnson's time... and the conclusion was, to really play Robert's songs you need to count 1-2, 1-2. not 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4...

Robert was the real deal.... and an enigma to boot. Would have loved to have seen him play- sometimes I think John Hammond is as close as we can get.

Billy

Billy, that sounds so TRUE. 1-2, 1-2...

I have the 2 LP's I'll have to play em this week.

thanks,
Mik

[Ringo]

Check out the DVD if you get a chance, Keb Mo plays the music and portrays Robert Johnson in the video clips, it's pretty good.

[bek]

Originally Posted by stevedenver

and RJ was selected by 2 of the most popular bands in the world - i cannot readily think of anyone in the mainstream rock world who had covered him and polished thier own versions prior to Cream and the Stones

Absolutely. Side note: I remember seeing Canned Heat in 1970 or '71 in California. They played a few songs and were pretty much what I expected. Then Bob Hite said, "Rollin' and Tumblin' was a good old song, y'now, but you gotta move on, sometimes." Then they launched into a ferocious rendition of "Terraplane Blues," which I have yet to hear anyone else perform. The rest of the set was stunning; I had no idea they could play that powerfully. It was as though Terraplane had propelled them into a whole other gear. FWIW, etc.

[Big Mike Simpson]

Originally Posted by Billy Claire

Robert was the real deal.... and an enigma to boot. Would have loved to have seen him play- sometimes I think John Hammond is as close as we can get.

Billy

I would say that Honeyboy Edwards is a better comparison.

Honeyboy was one of the last if not the last person to see RJ alive. He traveled and played with RJ. I have played a couple of gigs with Honeyboy, drove him around and got to know him a bit. One heck of a nice guy. That was a few years ago, I think he must be 92 or 93 by now... still giggin... He IS the real deal.

http://www.earwigmusic.com/NewSite/tourdates.asp

http://www.honeyboyfilm.com/

[Heather Anne Peel]

I discovered Johnson the way many did, through The Rolling Stones and Cream. I still love what they did with his songs. It's fabulous that they chose to do them, and turn us all onto the Blues. Yes, there were others around the time Johnson made his recordings who were great, and his influences were great, as well. But let's not forget the Johnson was never famous in his lifetime. He was fortunate enough to have been recorded, when many were not. Kinda like the music business has always been. At least now we can all record and release our own music! I hate major record companies. They have no understanding of music. To them it's all a marketing scheme, nothing more. At least back in the day, there were some label heads who really loved music, people like Leonard and Phil Chess, Ahmet Ertegun and Jerry Wexler, Berry Gordy, Jr., Sam Phillips, etc.. Now it's all multimedia mass-marketing. Robert Johnson may not have been the only one, but he was the real deal and incredible. Thank God he was recorded and his music reached people like Eric Clapton, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards and the rest of us!
Heather