Home recording questions

[Neill Levine]

Gday everyone,

Two questions:
I am setting up a loungeroom studio to record some four-track tunes, with a view to recording a jazz quartet demo.
I am completely new to home recording things and have been at the playing end in other recording situations. What is the opinion in what instrument is first to record? My thought is to lay down a simple guitar rythym track and then get the bass play to play along to it. Then add track by track.
It is not possible to get everyone in the room at once!

My second question is about a mic. I want to buy one second hand for when I mic up the bass rig and my combo amp. I was thinking of a Shure mic...but i am far from being an expert.

Any opinions?

Neill

[Savagery]

Originally Posted by Neill Levine

Gday everyone,
What is the opinion in what instrument is first to record?

It's all up to you. I'm interning at a studio and yesterday we had a death metal band come in to record a CD. The only thing we recorded was the drums! The drummer actually kept time (with many changing time signatures) and counted off the breaks, etc, playing along with absolutely nothing, no click track, nothing. Did every track like this. Pretty impressive. So, anything is possible- I think it's best to start with guitar, personally. Record the guitar and sing along while recording (don't record the vocals) so you can match the dynamics of the guitar with the singing- I think that helps, but do whatever.

My second question is about a mic. I want to buy one second hand for when I mic up the bass rig and my combo amp. I was thinking of a Shure mic...but i am far from being an expert.
Any opinions?

To mic the combo, use an SM57. $90 new, a great amp mic. Put it right up to the speaker grill, perpendicular to the amp, about 3/4 between the cone and the rim of the speaker. There are many placements you can use but this a good start.

Bass rig, you can get away with the SM57, but you should think about running it direct, as the cleanliness and quality will improve. Get a direct box and run it right into the 4-track, or run it out the bass head's direct out (if it has one). If you are dead set on micing the cab though, the 57 should do it. Can't tell you where to put the mic as I've never done it, but I'd assume it's the same as the guitar cab. Pick a speaker and stick it right on there.

[PK]

IMHO, write the guitar parts first but record the drums then bass before guitar. I think the guitar comes out better if it's laid down after the rythmn. vocals last. Just my 4 1/2 cents (yes, 4 & 1/2.... inflation in the George Bush era ya know )

PK

[maestrovert]

jes' m.h.o.
i record quite a bit at home, and i've been doing it this way:
the first track to be recorded is the instrument the tune was written on....the last to be tracked are drums/percussion

the MXL 990 mic available from Musician's Friend, is inexpensive and gives good results with a variety of instruments.....

[Leon Grizzard]

Part of the answer depends on how many total tracks you can record (is it four?) and how many you can record at once. If you need to submix the drums, better start with them, and bass if you have have the inputs.

[Neill Levine]

Thanks for those ideas! You have all added to my plans for this project...it is my 'maiden voyage' and I am quite looking forward to it!

To mic the combo, use an SM57. $90 new, a great amp mic. Put it right up to the speaker grill, perpendicular to the amp, about 3/4 between the cone and the rim of the speaker. There are many placements you can use but this a good start.

That is the mic I think I have come across before. I have heard that it is a good utility instrument mic.
I think my bass player has GK head which is pretty modern. I imagine it would have a line out. That sorts that out!

Part of the answer depends on how many total tracks you can record (is it four?) and how many you can record at once. If you need to submix the drums, better start with them, and bass if you have have the inputs.

It is only going to be a very live sounding jazz quartet at this point on my Yamaha 4-track. Like Rudy van Gelder's work.
I think I will lay a guitar comping track down and then get the others in when they can come over.

[/quote]

[Strawfields]

Perform everything once live (just mic up the drums) to get drum track first .[ this will be a guide track with bass,rhythm and Vocals]

[ Try recording the drums in a different room to avoid bleeding from guitars and if you can get a monitor mix from the Bass and guitar and Vocals into some Headphones for Drummer that would be ace.]

Then redo bass over drum track (keeping guide vocals and rhythm guitar as monitor) ,then guitar and finally vocals. Overdubs later if desired.

[DAK]

Hi, Neill.

Just started home recording a few months ago... a simple set-up, using Sony's ACID Music Studio 6.0 software on a PC. Have completed 6 songs... with drums (via loops and one-shot samples) being the first thing I laid down in all but one. (That one doesn't have any drums... first track was me singing and playing rhythm on acoustic guitar.) On song #7, first track is an accapella sample by 50s vocal group The Fleetwoods. Remaining tracks will be contemporary instrumentation (guitar, bass and midi effects). First of those tracks - a drum loop.

[trag-o-caster]

I start with a drum machine first, and then I'll either do the bass, or rhythm guitar. After that I'll may try some lead guitar, but I'll usually replace the drum machine with real drums at this point, followed by lead guitar, and vocals, and whatever else. I like to use the drum machine to keep steady time while getting the bass track down. I then like to get rid of it as quickly as possible which, unfortunately, usually means that I'm playing drums on it as well . I find that I do much better with brushes on the hi-hat and snare, as opposed to an entire kit with sticks.

[Skully]

Oops... double post.

[Skully]

I start with a drum machine first, and then I'll either do the bass, or rhythm guitar. After that I'll may try some lead guitar, but I'll usually replace the drum machine with real drums at this point, followed by lead guitar, and vocals, and whatever else. I like to use the drum machine to keep steady time while getting the bass track down. I then like to get rid of it as quickly as possible which, unfortunately, usually means that I'm playing drums on it as well

This pretty much the way I do it, too. I record rhythm guitar over a midi drum beat or live acoustic and scratch vocals to a midi drum beat, then slowly build and re-do parts as I go along, creating a musical interplay with myself, so to speak. Having the song locked to a midi beat not only keeps the rhythm steady, it also makes editing and rearranging the song much easier.

But I have a virtually unlimited number of tracks at my disposal and I'm recording rock & roll songs, not a jazz combo. If I were you, I'd try to record as many instruments playing at once as I could. Both Joe Jackson and Frank Black have recorded albums live to two tracks, so if you plan it right, you should be able to do okay with four tracks.

[Strawfields]

You don't want the rhythm to be too mechanical and metronomic unless that's what's definitely required. I prefer music to sound like a human has had some involvement. That's why i prefer live drums over synth wherever possible.


Somehow jazz over a midi beat sounds like it would be soulless rubbish.

[J-man]

Drums should usually be recorded first if not recording live. Though recently I've gotten to like the sound of live recorded tracks more and more, you just have to check your mic pickup patterns and angle everything accordingly.

[Skully]

Somehow jazz over a midi beat sounds like it would be soulless rubbish.

I was recommending that he not use a midi beat. One can, however, start the recording process with a midi beat and make it soulful and swinging by replacing it with live percussion. If you have a tight arrangement and know your way around the recording program, you can even speed up and slow down the beat during the song. You can also create new arrangements via digital editing and still make it sound "live," if you know what you're doing.

[Strawfields]

I wasn't really commenting on your advice which was sound. I just had a little shudder when I thought of midi jazz and had to express myself.

[Brian blaut]

I certainly can't offer any professional advice, but I can offer up my humble amature ways:

-Since your doing "home" recording, then time, money isn't a problem. You can lay down tracks all day for free... so, what I do is start with guitar, even just rhythm strums on the acoustic. -somewhere to start. Now, I don't play very well all by myself cold, so this track will probably be a little souless and thrown away later, but in the mean time, its something to play along with to bring out my energy in the other instruments. And, if needby, I'll use a metronome or click track to keep me from wondering. (this will also be deleted later)

-Then drums.

-Then bass.

-Then re-record rhythm guitar. Now I have a band to play with so I can relaxe and not over worry about playing it perfectly, or keeping perfect time blah blah blah. Just relax and play with the (already recorded)band.

-Now I can add lead guitar.

-Now I can go back in and redo any instrument that I'm not satisfied with, or even just redo a couple of measures where my fingers flubbed their way through...

Anyways, my basic observation to share is since its "home recording" and your not paying a studio for time, it doesn't matter what you start with. You can redo any track whenever so, its only important to get something down for the other tracks to build off of...

[Strawfields]

Totally agree. Getting the arrangement right and rhythm track down is the most time consuming and necessary part. Everything else you can just enjoy.