Archtop GAS

[Robin Nahum]

I tried out a blond 1976 ES175 on Thursday.

Without any great effort, I was able to get "that big warm archtop tone" like Tal Farlow or Johnny Smith. And it felt great to play.

I know that I have said that I get a not bad jazz tone from my Thinlines and ES345 but this was.... well.... different and better. And better than other most other archtops I have tried recently. And the price is good.

I cannot add another to the herd so I have decided to put the ES345 on Ebait (Australia only for now).

Are there any issues with 175s of which I should be aware?

[Tim Armstrong]

As far as I know, nope! You're playing THE gold standard for jazz guitar, Robin.

Nice score!

Cheers, Tim

[Chris S.]

Yup, the ES-175 worked pretty well for Joe Pass for a couple of decades. :-) (Of course, his talent and chops didn't hurt any, either... hee.) ;-)

There aren't any "issues" per se with 175s, they're great guitars, proven over decades by many top performers. And of course, they're likely to keep appreciating over time. But there are couple of things you might want to consider (if you haven't already) before you make a substantial purchase:

1) Whether or not you want a carved spruce top. The 175 is not, btw – it's laminated maple. There are pros and cons for both types: to my ear, a carved spruce top gives a much warmer, creamier sound, but is highly prone to feedback. The laminated tops are a little brighter, and not nearly as susceptible to feeding back.

2) Do you want the pickup(s) embedded in the top (like the humbuckers in the 175) or a "floating" pickup, which does not actually contact the top of the guitar? Again, they both offer pluses and minuses, but they do sound noticeably different, so you might want to try out both types.

Finally, just in the last 4 or 5 years, a number of Asian manufacturers have come out with some surprisingly good "budget" jazz models. Ibanez offers the entire "Artcore" series, and there are a number of other players in the field as well. I don't know what prices are like down under, but here in the US they're selling many of these NEW in the USD $300~$400 range – simply unheard of for a playable jazz guitar until recently. They may not be a 175 – but they're pretty darned good, IMO.

Like many purchases, I'd advise playing as many different models and examples as you possibly can, and buying the one that "speaks" to you. (Of course, it sounds like that may have already happened... hee.) ;-) Best of luck, CS

[mark norwine]

my only comment would be that I'd look for an ES-175 {single pickup} in lieu of an ES-175D {two pickups}

My experience taught me that I'd rather have wood near the bridge instead of a pickup that you'll {in all liklihood} never use.

Just my 2 cents...

[Robin Nahum]

Originally Posted by Chris S.

Yup, the ES-175 worked pretty well for Joe Pass for a couple of decades. :-) (Of course, his talent and chops didn't hurt any, either... hee.) ;-)

Huh? I thought that when you got a nice archtop, the solos just .... um came out. :D

There aren't any "issues" per se with 175s, they're great guitars, proven over decades by many top performers. And of course, they're likely to keep appreciating over time. But there are couple of things you might want to consider (if you haven't already) before you make a substantial purchase:

1) Whether or not you want a carved spruce top. The 175 is not, btw – it's laminated maple. There are pros and cons for both types: to my ear, a carved spruce top gives a much warmer, creamier sound, but is highly prone to feedback. The laminated tops are a little brighter, and not nearly as susceptible to feeding back.

Yes I'm aware that the 175 is a laminated top and of the general pros and cons of them vis-a-vis carved tops. It is interesting that you mention spruce. I always thought carved tops were maple.

In choosing between laminated and craved, I think it is important to consider the instrument wholistically i.e. how it sounds and plays regardless of the material, and of course commercially - how big a hole it knocks in your credit card balance. The shop had a Wes Montgomery L5 next to the 175 for $A20,000.

A few years ago, I played a second hand modern L4. This is the carved top version of the 175 and was initially released as the ES775. It was very attractively priced and had belonged to George Golla (who I saw the other day actually). I was told he was selling it because he had done an endorsement deal with Maton and had to offload his Gibson. I didn't enjoy playing it. When I met George eighteen months later, he said that he hadn't either.

On the other hand, I tried a Super 400 about 25 years ago and it was instant George Benson, even though I couldn't play to save myself.

2) Do you want the pickup(s) embedded in the top (like the humbuckers in the 175) or a "floating" pickup, which does not actually contact the top of the guitar? Again, they both offer pluses and minuses, but they do sound noticeably different, so you might want to try out both types.

I see that the new version of the Herb Ellis/ES165 is a floater but I haven't seen them here yet. Jacksons has a 199x Super V which is a Johnny Smith body with an L5 neck and a floating minibucker. When I thought about it carefully wholistically and commercially, I realised that my life would not be worth much if I brought it home - even if I could afford it.

Finally, just in the last 4 or 5 years, a number of Asian manufacturers have come out with some surprisingly good "budget" jazz models. Ibanez offers the entire "Artcore" series, and there are a number of other players in the field as well. I don't know what prices are like down under, but here in the US they're selling many of these NEW in the USD $300~$400 range – simply unheard of for a playable jazz guitar until recently. They may not be a 175 – but they're pretty darned good, IMO.

Yes. I was shown an Eastman(?) carved top designed in the US and built in China. Very nice and very well-priced. And of course, D'Angelicos are made in Japan now. I acknowledge that the build qualty of non-US instruments is up there but I still sense that a US guitar will hold value better and for me has that mystique. And I know what George Benson, John Scofield and Mike Stern play.

Like many purchases, I'd advise playing as many different models and examples as you possibly can, and buying the one that "speaks" to you.

Absolutely.

(Of course, it sounds like that may have already happened... hee.)

I think it has. :D

;-) Best of luck, CS

[Robin Nahum]

Originally Posted by mark norwine

my only comment would be that I'd look for an ES-175 {single pickup} in lieu of an ES-175D {two pickups}

My experience taught me that I'd rather have wood near the bridge instead of a pickup that you'll {in all liklihood} never use.

Just my 2 cents...

Hi Mark,

I agree that the single pickup is a more elegant design and have tried out single pup 175s/165s from time to time but none that I particularly liked.

On this occasion, it was just more a matter of stumbling across a particular instrument that sounded and played right.