Roger McGuinn's curious Rickenbacker modifications

Blazer · January 25th, 2006, 07:48 PM

Okay it's no secret that Roger McGuinn modified his Rickenbacker 370/12 guitars by gutting them and stashing in the insides of a Rangemaster treble booster stompbox and hotwiring the bridge pickup streight onto that monster, creating that "Jangle" he's known for.

But a far more curious modification that McGuinn did to his rickies is largly overlooked but no less interresting. McGuinn, Turned the backwards facing tuners of his rickies around, porbably to make tuning a bit easier.

Click here for a Large picture of McGuinn's 1966 Ricky 370/12 and look closely at it's headstock.

Scott S · January 25th, 2006, 07:59 PM

That's really interesting, particularly because I don't think it would make tuner access any easier. In fact, I think it would be awkward to have to reach in *front* of the headstock to tune!

CharlieO · January 25th, 2006, 09:03 PM

Since you're speaking of Roger, I'll offer my quick review of the show that I saw on Sunday night. It was a solo show in a 500-seat theatre, and easily more than 400 people showed up. I was amazed at the crowd for a city of this size.

Unfortunately, the last time I saw Roger was with a band, a few years ago. There was no way that his solo act was going to be as good as that. For this show, he entered from stage right playing his Rick 12 wirelessly, I think he was playing "My Back Pages". Unfortunately, his guitar sound through the PA was lame, with no real "chime". No amp was visible. I don't know if it was backstage, or if he goes "direct" to the board wirelessly (Do people do that?). Anyway it was nowhere near the Rick sound that you think of from old Byrds records. Throughout the show, his voice had the same unpleasant, middy character as the guitar sound.

He quickly sat down and got into his acoustic stuff, and this is where it got interesting. I guess the last time I saw him was prior to the introduction of his Limited Edition Martin HD-7 guitar. This guitar is very cool, and I want one! For those of you who don't know about it, this guitar has a doubled G-string, with the second one tuned an octave higher. It provides a lot of the jangle of a 12-string, but is much easier to play leads and bends on. It's too bad that the discounted price on this guitar is $4400. If Martin made a less-expensive non-signature version, they might sell a lot of them.

The show was interesting, because I felt that he never really connected with the audience, but there were a few yayhoos who felt that they needed to give him a standing ovation more than once in the middle of the show. He played his usual mix of acoustic and electric tunes, with a couple of old folk standards. I was disappointed that he played "Eight Miles High" on his signature Martin 12-string rather than on the Rick.

All in all, I guess I came away disappointed. As an agent, I certainly understand the financial reasons for performing solo rather than with a band. I doubt that he would have sold any more tickets if he had a band behind him. I also understand his comfort with performing solo, primarily acoustic. It's just that I kept hearing the(absent) band in my head.

One thing that I thought was great is that this guy uses three signature edition guitars (2 Martins and a Rick), and he was largely responsible for the significant innovations in two of them (back on topic, sort of).

BrianF · January 25th, 2006, 10:23 PM

is a legend and true pioneer of folk/country rock..

Quote:

Unfortunately, the last time I saw Roger was with a band, a few years ago. There was no way that his solo act was going to be as good as that. For this show, he entered from stage right playing his Rick 12 wirelessly, I think he was playing "My Back Pages". Unfortunately, his guitar sound through the PA was lame, with no real "chime". No amp was visible. I don't know if it was backstage, or if he goes "direct" to the board wirelessly (Do people do that?). Anyway it was nowhere near the Rick sound that you think of from old Byrds records.

I saw him give an identical show to what you described...about 2 years ago. He travels very light these days...just Roger and his wife Camilla, and no roadies I guess...

His singing and performance were great ....I would much rather see him with a backup band though too..

He uses a POD connected to the PA....can you believe it? My thoughts are identical to what you posted about his tone...it was awful... It's the POD/PA thing..... he also uses an outboard stompbox compressor (Jangle Box)

I guess for him (these days) convenience rules over tone....

Don Miller · January 26th, 2006, 12:29 AM

Yeah, when Roger and Camilla came up here a few years back, they drove up the highway...stayed at the home of the promoter who brought them up, and used gear (a 330-12 no less and a Roland Jazz Chorus amp) from a local music store. He was doing the monlogue-personal history show at the time, and I thought it was quite good...I think hes released a CD of essentially the same show...he did a meet and greet after the show...I talked to him about hybrid picking...one of my friends met him when he was picking up his gear at Mammoth Music...certainly, as Brian said, one of the pioneers of country folk-rock-psychedelia, etc etc...and a survivor too...there arent that many seminal players from that era who are still at it...and accessible in the manner he is...

The mods hes done to his rics are interesting...altho the Byrd wiring scheme...which allows the use of only one pickup at a time...doesnt seem all that useful..Ive resisted the urge to wire my 370-12 in that manner...

David Barnett · January 26th, 2006, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott S

That's really interesting, particularly because I don't think it would make tuner access any easier. In fact, I think it would be awkward to have to reach in *front* of the headstock to tune!

I agree. I have a Ric 12, and don't see how that would work well at all, at least not while the guitar is strapped on.

O- Fender · January 26th, 2006, 10:20 AM

Could it be that he uses his right hand to tune those strings?

Maybe to keep the strings organized and for tuning on the fly he uses one hand to tune one set of strings and the other hand to tune the octave strings?

Bob Rogers · January 26th, 2006, 02:03 PM

I would think it's harder to work with those reversed tuners as well. My guess is that was a short term experiment that was abandoned. Roger is a tinkerer.

Have you guys seen his Homespun instructional tape? Does about half with the Ric half with a Martin. Very good teaching style.

My daughter has a Ric 12 which she plays through a POD to the PA. We use one of the Matchless settings. To me it's one of the guitar/pod/PA combinations that works the best. Of course, I've set it up to work with our PA, and it sometimes doesn't sound as good on another system.

My guess is that as an old folkie, Roger has played through lots of crappy PAs. Maybe he doesn't get real worked up about fine points of tone. I'm sort of that way. If I can get a good mix of instruments and vocals and you can hear everything clearly, that's way more than half the battle.

David Barnett · January 26th, 2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O- Fender

Could it be that he uses his right hand to tune those strings?

He'd have too.

Still seems awkward to me. Whatever makes him happy though. I don't think I'll try it on my Ric.

Roli · January 26th, 2006, 02:32 PM

But how does he reach that far?

BrianF · January 26th, 2006, 04:51 PM

Maybe he tuned the pegs with his right hand while fretting a chord with his left hand....

Blazer · August 14th, 2006, 06:40 PM

Okay you guys, I'm raising this thread up from the grave but I found out WHY McGuinn had the tuners of his rick facing forwards.

In those days, Ricky twelve string guitars had no slotted right through headstocks (they do now) So you had to face them trying to slide the string ends into the tuners. And then reach behind the headstock to tune them up. I had my Eureka moment when I saw this picture of George Harrison tuning up has famous 360/12

So McGuinn made life easier for himself by turning the tuners over, so he didn't have to strain his wrist by bringing the strings up to key.

OutlawSteph1975 · August 14th, 2006, 08:18 PM

That's interesting about the modifications. I guess it works for him. I've seen Roger's solo show a number of times, and it's a hero worship thing for me so I always enjoy him and find it tough to be critical. I've never been disappointed. But the best show I ever saw was when he was touring to promote Back From Rio. His backing band was a local Tampa, FL band called The Headlights and they did their best to sound 'byrdsy'. It rocked and they pulled it off! That wasn't easy considering John Jorgenson played on that album and it was up to the Headlights' guitar player Steve Connelly (http://tampa.weeklyplanetbestof.com/...rd=oid%3A86990) to play those parts. It turned into a small world because the Headlights reunited and opened up the first Outlaws reunion show in St. Pete last year. They played a few Byrds songs and dedicated them to Henry Paul who was very influenced by the Byrds and folk-rock.

David Barnett · August 14th, 2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazer

Okay you guys, I'm raising this thread up from the grave but I found out WHY McGuinn had the tuners of his rick facing forwards.

In those days, Ricky twelve string guitars had no slotted right through headstocks (they do now) So you had to face them trying to slide the string ends into the tuners. And then reach behind the headstock to tune them up. I had my Eureka moment when I saw this picture of George Harrison tuning up has famous 360/12

So McGuinn made life easier for himself by turning the tuners over, so he didn't have to strain his wrist by bringing the strings up to key.

I've never seen a Ric 12 with slots that go all the way through the headstock, they're just a pair of little dugout slots.

I own a Ric-12, and McGuinn's way would make it very awkward to tune the guitar with your left hand while the guitar is strapped on. Now, if it was laying down on a guitar tech's table, that might make it a little easier...

freshmattyp · August 14th, 2006, 09:50 PM

They only started routing all the way through the headstock in the last couple of years. It makes a big difference when stringing up.

Blazer · August 15th, 2006, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshmattyp

They only started routing all the way through the headstock in the last couple of years. It makes a big difference when stringing up.

yup, see here.

David Barnett · August 15th, 2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazer

yup, see here.

I see a red X

Paul in Colorado · August 15th, 2006, 01:38 PM

You'll notice in the picture that Roger's Rick has Shaller tuners. I have a '97 360-12 with Shallers and they are probably too big for the headstock and the buttons tend to to get in the way of each other. If you turned one pair around, you wouldn't have that problem. I think that's what Roger was trying to do. It's not an issue with Kluson styly tuners, which is what the signature RM 370-12 has if I remember right.
That's my best guess.
I'm a big fan of Roger as well. I just wish he'd play with Hillman and Crosby again.

chet · August 15th, 2006, 02:31 PM

I've tried to play one of those guitars in a store. You must have real long skinny fingers.

Paul in Colorado · August 16th, 2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chet

I've tried to play one of those guitars in a store. You must have real long skinny fingers.

As a matter of fact, I do have very long and skinny fingers.

January 25th, 2006, 07:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
Blazer Friend of Leo's Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3,174	Roger McGuinn's curious Rickenbacker modifications Okay it's no secret that Roger McGuinn modified his Rickenbacker 370/12 guitars by gutting them and stashing in the insides of a Rangemaster treble booster stompbox and hotwiring the bridge pickup streight onto that monster, creating that "Jangle" he's known for. But a far more curious modification that McGuinn did to his rickies is largly overlooked but no less interresting. McGuinn, Turned the backwards facing tuners of his rickies around, porbably to make tuning a bit easier. Click here for a Large picture of McGuinn's 1966 Ricky 370/12 and look closely at it's headstock. __________________ "I reject your reality and subsitute my own." - Adam Savage, Mythbusters

January 25th, 2006, 09:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
CharlieO Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sarasota, FL Age: 56 Posts: 1,267 6 Photos	Speaking of Roger, I saw him on Sunday night (hijack) Since you're speaking of Roger, I'll offer my quick review of the show that I saw on Sunday night. It was a solo show in a 500-seat theatre, and easily more than 400 people showed up. I was amazed at the crowd for a city of this size. Unfortunately, the last time I saw Roger was with a band, a few years ago. There was no way that his solo act was going to be as good as that. For this show, he entered from stage right playing his Rick 12 wirelessly, I think he was playing "My Back Pages". Unfortunately, his guitar sound through the PA was lame, with no real "chime". No amp was visible. I don't know if it was backstage, or if he goes "direct" to the board wirelessly (Do people do that?). Anyway it was nowhere near the Rick sound that you think of from old Byrds records. Throughout the show, his voice had the same unpleasant, middy character as the guitar sound. He quickly sat down and got into his acoustic stuff, and this is where it got interesting. I guess the last time I saw him was prior to the introduction of his Limited Edition Martin HD-7 guitar. This guitar is very cool, and I want one! For those of you who don't know about it, this guitar has a doubled G-string, with the second one tuned an octave higher. It provides a lot of the jangle of a 12-string, but is much easier to play leads and bends on. It's too bad that the discounted price on this guitar is $4400. If Martin made a less-expensive non-signature version, they might sell a lot of them. The show was interesting, because I felt that he never really connected with the audience, but there were a few yayhoos who felt that they needed to give him a standing ovation more than once in the middle of the show. He played his usual mix of acoustic and electric tunes, with a couple of old folk standards. I was disappointed that he played "Eight Miles High" on his signature Martin 12-string rather than on the Rick. All in all, I guess I came away disappointed. As an agent, I certainly understand the financial reasons for performing solo rather than with a band. I doubt that he would have sold any more tickets if he had a band behind him. I also understand his comfort with performing solo, primarily acoustic. It's just that I kept hearing the(absent) band in my head. One thing that I thought was great is that this guy uses three signature edition guitars (2 Martins and a Rick), and he was largely responsible for the significant innovations in two of them (back on topic, sort of).

January 26th, 2006, 10:20 AM	#7 (permalink)
O- Fender Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 443	Could it be that he uses his right hand to tune those strings? Maybe to keep the strings organized and for tuning on the fly he uses one hand to tune one set of strings and the other hand to tune the octave strings? __________________ "Unless you are the lead dog, the scenery doesn't change much." - Kinky Friedman "Those who dance are considered insane by those who cannot hear the music" - Anon.

January 26th, 2006, 04:51 PM	#11 (permalink)
BrianF Friend of Leo's Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Carlsbad, Ca Posts: 2,116 7 Photos	ah.... Maybe he tuned the pegs with his right hand while fretting a chord with his left hand....

August 14th, 2006, 06:40 PM	#12 (permalink)
Blazer Friend of Leo's Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3,174	Okay you guys, I'm raising this thread up from the grave but I found out WHY McGuinn had the tuners of his rick facing forwards. In those days, Ricky twelve string guitars had no slotted right through headstocks (they do now) So you had to face them trying to slide the string ends into the tuners. And then reach behind the headstock to tune them up. I had my Eureka moment when I saw this picture of George Harrison tuning up has famous 360/12 So McGuinn made life easier for himself by turning the tuners over, so he didn't have to strain his wrist by bringing the strings up to key. __________________ "I reject your reality and subsitute my own." - Adam Savage, Mythbusters

January 25th, 2006, 07:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW CR IA US NA PE Age: 28 Posts: 1,419	That's really interesting, particularly because I don't think it would make tuner access any easier. In fact, I think it would be awkward to have to reach in front of the headstock to tune!

January 26th, 2006, 12:29 AM	#5 (permalink)
Don Miller Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Age: 57 Posts: 579 14 Photos	Yeah, when Roger and Camilla came up here a few years back, they drove up the highway...stayed at the home of the promoter who brought them up, and used gear (a 330-12 no less and a Roland Jazz Chorus amp) from a local music store. He was doing the monlogue-personal history show at the time, and I thought it was quite good...I think hes released a CD of essentially the same show...he did a meet and greet after the show...I talked to him about hybrid picking...one of my friends met him when he was picking up his gear at Mammoth Music...certainly, as Brian said, one of the pioneers of country folk-rock-psychedelia, etc etc...and a survivor too...there arent that many seminal players from that era who are still at it...and accessible in the manner he is... The mods hes done to his rics are interesting...altho the Byrd wiring scheme...which allows the use of only one pickup at a time...doesnt seem all that useful..Ive resisted the urge to wire my 370-12 in that manner...

January 26th, 2006, 02:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
Bob Rogers Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Blacksburg, VA Posts: 1,710	I would think it's harder to work with those reversed tuners as well. My guess is that was a short term experiment that was abandoned. Roger is a tinkerer. Have you guys seen his Homespun instructional tape? Does about half with the Ric half with a Martin. Very good teaching style. My daughter has a Ric 12 which she plays through a POD to the PA. We use one of the Matchless settings. To me it's one of the guitar/pod/PA combinations that works the best. Of course, I've set it up to work with our PA, and it sometimes doesn't sound as good on another system. My guess is that as an old folkie, Roger has played through lots of crappy PAs. Maybe he doesn't get real worked up about fine points of tone. I'm sort of that way. If I can get a good mix of instruments and vocals and you can hear everything clearly, that's way more than half the battle.

January 26th, 2006, 02:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
Roli Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ¤ Hungary ¤ Age: 30 Posts: 1,449 5 Photos	But how does he reach that far?

August 14th, 2006, 08:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
OutlawSteph1975 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,756 7 Photos	That's interesting about the modifications. I guess it works for him. I've seen Roger's solo show a number of times, and it's a hero worship thing for me so I always enjoy him and find it tough to be critical. I've never been disappointed. But the best show I ever saw was when he was touring to promote Back From Rio. His backing band was a local Tampa, FL band called The Headlights and they did their best to sound 'byrdsy'. It rocked and they pulled it off! That wasn't easy considering John Jorgenson played on that album and it was up to the Headlights' guitar player Steve Connelly (http://tampa.weeklyplanetbestof.com/...rd=oid%3A86990) to play those parts. It turned into a small world because the Headlights reunited and opened up the first Outlaws reunion show in St. Pete last year. They played a few Byrds songs and dedicated them to Henry Paul who was very influenced by the Byrds and folk-rock.

August 14th, 2006, 09:50 PM	#15 (permalink)
freshmattyp Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kansas City Age: 42 Posts: 899 18 Photos	They only started routing all the way through the headstock in the last couple of years. It makes a big difference when stringing up.

August 15th, 2006, 01:38 PM	#18 (permalink)
Paul in Colorado Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fort Collins, CO Age: 55 Posts: 4,123 3 Photos	You'll notice in the picture that Roger's Rick has Shaller tuners. I have a '97 360-12 with Shallers and they are probably too big for the headstock and the buttons tend to to get in the way of each other. If you turned one pair around, you wouldn't have that problem. I think that's what Roger was trying to do. It's not an issue with Kluson styly tuners, which is what the signature RM 370-12 has if I remember right. That's my best guess. I'm a big fan of Roger as well. I just wish he'd play with Hillman and Crosby again.

August 15th, 2006, 02:31 PM	#19 (permalink)
chet Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The Jersey Shore Posts: 6,013	I've tried to play one of those guitars in a store. You must have real long skinny fingers.