Is anyone using the Bose PAS system??

[Maj. Lee FUBAR]

I've been looking into them and wondered if anyone here has experience with them. The concept seems to make sense to me.

Let me know what you're thoughts are.

For those who are are asking "What the heck is he talking about?," here's the link: linky

[GopherTele]

I'm in a band where we use this system. It's amazing.

We're three pieces, acoustic, electric and doghouse bass and for that combo, it works great.

Everyone can hear everyone else and setup is a breeze. I think they're on to something here.

[Cam]

For a unit? Do you use three?
Thanks....

[GopherTele]

Apparently, the best setup is for each guy to have his own, but we just use the one and it works great.

I believe they are $2k at GC.

[eryque]

How much band can these things handle? I've only seen one group using it, and it was a 3-piece acoustic thing in a small restaurant, so it wasn't very loud. Does it have enough power for a 4 piece electric band in a typical bar?

[GopherTele]

Unless your drummer is a real basher, I think it would be sufficient for amplification of the vocals.

I've never understood miking the freaking snare drum or the cymbals in a club, but if you are into that kind of thing, this PA is not your cup o' tea.

[Colo Springs E]

Originally Posted by eryque

How much band can these things handle? I've only seen one group using it, and it was a 3-piece acoustic thing in a small restaurant, so it wasn't very loud. Does it have enough power for a 4 piece electric band in a typical bar?

....that Gopher has, it's probably ideal.

If you're a pretty loud, 4-piece/5-piece rock and roll band designed to play medium to small clubs, I dunno. I watched a local band here in the Springs use one, and maybe they just didn't have it dialed in (a distinct possibility), but it seemed to lack "punch"--not necessarily volume, it just didn't sound.... large or full or something.

I think how Gopher is using it is probably the really ideal intended scenario.

[David Barnett]

I've never heard live music through the Bose system, but I've heard a CD playing through a pair of them at a Guitar Center. With just a portable CD Discman into a small Mackie mixer straight into a pair of the sticks with subs, the sound even at normal levels was reedy, strained, and not very hifi. I think a pair of Behringer or Yamaha cheap 12"+ horn PA speakers on stands would have outperformed the Bose in that setting.

[Stubbs]

I think the Bose system sounds great with a set-up like a solo or duo acoustic guitar with vocals. It definitely lacks punch and can't keep up with a drummer with a full kit. Plus for less than the $2000 for the Bose you could get a decent PA.

[Stratosaurus]

I've had the pleasure of playing through one many times. I used to live 5 minutes from a GC, and work less than 1 minute away from it also. During lunch breaks or days off you could usually find me there.

Anyway, I'd spend my entire lunch breaks trying out many different guitars through the Bose PAS they had on display and loved it. It sounded so rich and lively. Quality you'd expect from Bose for sure.

I didn't think that a tower the size of a 4" PVC pipe at about 5-6 feet tall would sound so good.

I don't see why it wouldn't work for a 4-piece band in a typical bar setup.

[PraiseCaster]

Here is a good discussion that highlights some successes, and some not so successful runs with the Bose Pas system:

http://guitaristsprais.forumsplace.c...light=bose+pas

The thing I dont like about it, is the buy in is pretty expensive. Each seperate instrument requires one (count your vocalist as a seperate instrument), and at over 2 grand each, YIKES!!!!

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by Stratosaurus

Quality you'd expect from Bose for sure.

That's the biggest laugh I've had all day.

[Stratosaurus]

Hey, their little stereos sound HUGE for their size; there's little hype surrounding them. And their headphones are the best headphones I've ever heard before in my life. If I had the, what, $350 to spend on a pair headphones I'd do it in a heart beat (music always sounds better with a good pair of headphones.)

Have you heard any of their equipment first hand before? I just don't see how anyone can knock their products.

By the way;
Harmony-Central reviews for the PAS system.

[Bob Rogers]

I have not heard the system, but since I got my upright bass I've been reading up on amplifying acoustic instruments so I'll chime in with a semiuninformed opinion. First, while $2K per stick is a lot of money, it is in the ball park of high end amps for upright bass, keyboard, and acoustic guitar. (See Bob Golihur's site for upright bass amps.) How do they compete with quality of sound compared to buying the best boutique amp for each instrument? Don't know, but I'm skeptical. How big an advantage does the cylindrical dispersion pattern give you when you are trying to mix from the stage. Again, I don't know. This might be a pretty big advantage.

Second, a lot of people are doing what gopher is doing and using a single stick as a PA. $2K will buy a pretty good "speakers on sticks" PA system, but the Bose should be easier to set up, better looking, and easier to position (because of the cylindrical dispersion pattern).

Stratosaurus - If you check out various live sound and high end audio boards you will find that Bose has a reputation for having an excellent marketing department and a spotty engineering department. Not saying the reputation is justified. (Bose has been around a very long time and been through a lot of changes.) But it is what it is. People do give them credit for producing products that are not simply knockoffs, but you can be sure that the ad copy will make it sound like the product will break three laws of physics and cure cancer and male pattern baldness.

[PraiseCaster]

While I myself have not used the Bose Pas (other than a quick try out at a GC), but someone I know tried using one stick/sub-woofer as a PA, and it over taxed it greatly, and gave them undesirable results.

It seems that the key is to have one for each instrument, so a 5 piece band requires 5 Bose Pas systems.

[Tremo]

YES! They sound great. A friend of mine uses these in his band, they use them only for vocals. Very smooth and even sound out in the audience.

The vertical column radiator contains a whole bunch of small speakers all stacked up in a vertical line. It's about 6 feet or so tall. The speakers look to be about 4 or 5 inches.

There is a separate subwoofer that sits on the floor, no idea what's inside, it's just a black box that bass notes come out of. From the size I'd guess a 10 or a 12.

As typical of Bose, the quality is very high.

[Billy Claire]

Originally Posted by Stratosaurus

Have you heard any of their equipment first hand before? I just don't see how anyone can knock their products.

I live about 4 miles from Bose... have known many people who have worked there and such and have heard everything they make.

There's something about the Bose "sound" that has never sounded natural to me. There's the artificial bass frequencies mostly and the overall sound sounds more like it's tailored to the human ear and not to the actual sound of an instrument. By that I mean, there's some unnatural something going on that mimics the sound of certain frequencies or something. Plus they're not ear-friendlky- there's something harsh to the sound of Bose speakers...

Yeah, they get loud but a JBL at the same volume is going to sound better.

I had thought that the PAS might be cool for an acoustic gig, but since the number of inputs is so limited, you'd either have to get a separate mixer or additional units which defeats the whole purpose. I don't think they have it totally figured out yet...

Billy

[GopherTele]

The idea behind PAS is that each player has his own system. That is why there are "only" four inputs for each unit.

Ideally, each player gets his own. That's how Bose designed the system.

[TheGoodTexan]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

That's the biggest laugh I've had all day.

Originally Posted by Stratosaurus

Have you heard any of their equipment first hand before? I just don't see how anyone can knock their products.

Originally Posted by Billy Claire

I live about 4 miles from Bose... have known many people who have worked there and such and have heard everything they make.

There's something about the Bose "sound" that has never sounded natural to me. There's the artificial bass frequencies mostly and the overall sound sounds more like it's tailored to the human ear and not to the actual sound of an instrument. By that I mean, there's some unnatural something going on that mimics the sound of certain frequencies or something. Plus they're not ear-friendlky- there's something harsh to the sound of Bose speakers...

Yeah, they get loud but a JBL at the same volume is going to sound better.

I had thought that the PAS might be cool for an acoustic gig, but since the number of inputs is so limited, you'd either have to get a separate mixer or additional units which defeats the whole purpose. I don't think they have it totally figured out yet...

Billy

I have not heard the PAS system, but I think that Bose owe their success more to a great marketing team than to a great sounding product.

If Paul Harvey would just give his approval, maybe I'd give it chance.

I grew up with my father owning a hi-fi stereo/home theater store. He started it in 1969, and just sold it in 2005.

Over the years, he carried some of the greatest speaker brands of all time, and I've developed quite a taste for great sounding loudspeakers. Dad carried Klipsch, Advent, B&O, Nakamichi, Vandersteen, Yamaha, Boston, B&W, Paradigm, Dahlquist, Polk....and many more.

I've heard many Bose setups, and they all sound mediocre. But it would never fail - a customer would come in, usually an older person, asking for the "Bose Wave speakers that were on the Paul Harvey show".

Dad would let them know that he was not a Bose dealer (there wasn't one in our town), but ask what their budget was and offer to demonstrate another brand of speakers in their price range. He almost always got a decline and the person walked out without hearding anything at all.

In my experience, the Bose marketing team has brainwashed the general public into blindly believing that Bose must be the best speakers made. It's branding and exposure.

There is a Bose factory store in the big mall here in town. I've been in there a many times while waiting on my wife to finish shopping at the Bed Bath & Beyond across the isle. I've never heard anything that sparked my interest at all.

[Tim Armstrong]

Originally Posted by GopherTele

The idea behind PAS is that each player has his own system. That is why there are "only" four inputs for each unit.

Ideally, each player gets his own. That's how Bose designed the system.

So that's be $8,000 for a 4-piece band?

Kinda rich for my blood!

Cheers, Tim

[TheGoodTexan]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

So that's be $8,000 for a 4-piece band?

Kinda rich for my blood!

Cheers, Tim

I'll make a prediction here.

Bose ends up abandoning the PAS system in 3 or 4 years, and leaves everyone that has invested in the set up high and dry.

Regardless of the how they sound, ideally Bose would need to get a really big name touring act to use them on the road live, and do a bunch of adds showcasing that. The people that attended those shows would have to come away impressed enough to make a purchase.

Since it seems that the PAS system is not ideally designed for a moderate to large venue, I don't foresee the above scenario happening.

For $2000, I can hit the local pawn shops, consignment stores and classified adds and piece together a really nice sounding small PA system of various brands and have enough inputs to mic everyone that needs it and even give a couple of different stage mixes.

[Bob Rogers]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

So that's be $8,000 for a 4-piece band? ...Kinda rich for my blood!

But it's not really that rich, is it? If you are replacing not only the whole PA, but the power amps and speakers in the backline, you are at least in the ball park of a good setup. Say you were going to do this conventionally.

Or, to put it another way, suppose you want to run a four piece band conventionally with no backline. Put together a PA with four good monitor speakers, monitor amps, snake, mixer, FOH speakers, subs, amps, crossover, and then pay someone to mix for you. $8,000 will do it, but it won't be a gold plated system.

If the Bose system is as advertised and can deliver good sound in a system that can be mixed from the stage and doesn't need monitors, it seems to me it is priced about right.

[GopherTele]

So take one off the four piece.

I don't think most bass amps need to be amplified either, so you're down to 2.

$4k for a good PA and monitors aint so bad.

[GopherTele]

If Bose decides to stop making this product in 3-4 years, how does that leave those who bought it "High and dry" to use your phrase?

The people who bought the units will still have them. They will still work.

Help me out here.

[TheGoodTexan]

Originally Posted by GopherTele

If Bose decides to stop making this product in 3-4 years, how does that leave those who bought it "High and dry" to use your phrase?

The people who bought the units will still have them. They will still work.

Help me out here.

Yeah - I see what you're saying. I was just talking about for parts and servicing and updates and such.

[PraiseCaster]

Originally Posted by GopherTele

So take one off the four piece.

I don't think most bass amps need to be amplified either, so you're down to 2.

$4k for a good PA and monitors aint so bad.

I think (note I say "I think") this might be incorrect: The unit also acts as the monitor, besides dispersing sound to the audience. The bass would still need to have its own (I've heard that a standard bass amp throws the sound dispersion off for the BOSE), and depending on the drummer (a standard drum), he may still need to have the snare, kick and tom's mic'd, or the drummer could go with an electronic kit into the BOSE Pas.

Also, one thing I have noticed: those that do rave about them, each instrument in the band has its own system, and this includes the singers.

I think in certain situations they would be good. Others they would not. I couldnt see a very loud rock band getting good results. Also, the performers would have to stay pretty close to there system: If they move around the stage too much, they might not be able to hear themselves. Also, the stage has to be adequately sized to allow them to place each one behind and slightly to the side of each performer.

I dont think this a bad idea at all, matter of fact, I think it is a pretty good idea, but, I dont think it will be as versatile as hoped by some.

Again, note I say "think", because my time with these is only about 20 to 30 minutes max: about 20 minutes in a room which was acoustically treated, and about 10 minutes outside of "the room". In the good acoustic's room, I rate it high for soft rock, jazz, and other genre's where volume is at comfortable levels. In the main portion of GC, I wasnt as impressed, but that could have been from the daily shred-a-thon going on.

The Volume throw on these units is good for a room which holds about 100 to 150 people. It can handle a room of about 300, but that means that the volume has to drastically increase, which means the stage volume is going to be incredibly high for the performers then (they do have to have them relatively close behind them).

I think in the right setting with the right genre of music/musicians, it would be a very good system. I just dont think it will be very versatile.

My 2 cents.

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by Stratosaurus

Hey, their little stereos sound HUGE for their size; there's little hype surrounding them. And their headphones are the best headphones I've ever heard before in my life. If I had the, what, $350 to spend on a pair headphones I'd do it in a heart beat (music always sounds better with a good pair of headphones.)

Have you heard any of their equipment first hand before? I just don't see how anyone can knock their products.

I don't mean to insult you, but it sounds like you've fallen for their hype machine hook line and sinker.

Yes, I've heard a lot of Bose equipment over the past 35 years or so. I'm always amazed when I hear that tinny noise they make, and the one-note bass rumble, and then hear a salesman or owner say "doesn't it sound huge?" The only thing they ever made that sounded huge was the original 901 system, which had a bunch of speakers pointing backwards at the wall. It made everything sound huge, it made Blossom Dearie sound like Kate Smith.

And despite what they tell you on the late night infomercials, their plastic table radio does not sound like a big hifi stack.

You ask if I've ever heard any Bose gear, so I'll ask you - have you ever heard a good audiophile hifi rig?

[David Barnett]

If these things are to be stood up behind the singers, how do you keep the vocal microphones from feeding back?

[PraiseCaster]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

If these things are to be stood up behind the singers, how do you keep the vocal microphones from feeding back?

From what I have heard, they have a really good resistance to feedback, though I read one review on Harmony Central, that one mic always would experience feedback, and they used all the same make and model of mic.

[Bob Rogers]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

If these things are to be stood up behind the singers, how do you keep the vocal microphones from feeding back?

I dont really think I understand this fully either, but my guess is that the reason is that cylindrical dispersion allows you to have a much lower stage volume. Ideally, in a cylindrical system spl goes down like the inverse of the distance. In a point source system it goes down like inverse square. If this calculation is right you don't need anywhere near the volume we are used to on stage to get the volume to the back seats.

Note that this calculation all goes out the window if your minimum stage volume is set by your drummer.

[Tim Armstrong]

All I know is this: we have a very nice Yamaha powered 8-channel mixer feeding a set of Community Sound and Light cabs on stands, with three monitor speakers for the band.

It cost us about what ONE of those things costs.

We run the whole band through our system, it fills good-sized clubs, and sounds great. Never any feedback problems, is easily expandable (we just run a small Mackie board in for more imputs), and is simple to set up and break down.

I don't see the point in the Bose stuff...

Cheers, Tim

[Lance]

We got them for the trial period. The band liked them but in reality, we really needed two tower sets to get a decent sound. That's $4K....way tooooo much!

We're now doing without...back to our crummy keyboard amp for the vocals. oh well.

Conceptually, it's a really good idea but it's overpriced for most bands. I do think a single system would be great for small acoustic gigs with 1 or 2 instruments.

just my $0.03

[OutlawSteph1975]

I've messed with this system at GC. Sure it sounds great in a small room, but I'm not sure how they are in a real life situation. I also think that Bose is onto something but it's up to Bose to market it property and be honest about what the system is good for, and is not good for. The PAS can't be used outside. Some people have bought them without knowing that.

[Paul in Colorado]

Todd Rungren used the Bose PAS system on his tour last year. They took off the base and laid them on those rubber stands they stick footballs on for kicking (what the heck are they called?) and ran them across the front of the stage pointed back at the musicians using them for monitors. All of the stage instruments went direct through POD's or the like so there were no stage amps.
I read about it in Pro Sound News.

No highs no lows, must be Bose!

[Stratosaurus]

Originally Posted by Paul in Colorado

...They took off the base and laid them on those rubber stands they stick footballs on for kicking (what the heck are they called?) ...

Football tee?

[Billy Claire]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Yes, I've heard a lot of Bose equipment over the past 35 years or so. I'm always amazed when I hear that tinny noise they make, and the one-note bass rumble, and then hear a salesman or owner say "doesn't it sound huge?"

You ask if I've ever heard any Bose gear, so I'll ask you - have you ever heard a good audiophile hifi rig?

That's it in a nutshell! The one-note bass rumble!!! and it's not even "real" bass...

Audiophile- you mean like a real tube amp and horns and woofers, and real sound? I've heard it... and nothing compares to it. Def not Bose!

Billy

[jumpnblues]

David,

I don't think any Bose system was ever meant to compete with "high-end" hi fi. It's not in the same price range, by a long shot, from what I consider "high-end" hi fi. IMHO for what they're designed for and the market they're aimed at Bose does a pretty good job. Better than most of the "lower to medium end" stuff.

Tom

[DlxNashvilleLuvr]

A friend of mine's band had a pair of these for their classic rock cover band. They had about four guys singing harmony and every time they hit a big chorus ("Take a load off, Mattie...") the Bose stick thingys distorted.

Up close these things appear to be stacks of about 20 2" speakers. If I run a lot of watts and voices into a 2" speaker, what do I expect? Twenty of them just equals 20 2" speakers distorting.

[Paul in Colorado]

Originally Posted by Stratosaurus

Football tee?

Yeah, that's it! Can you tell I'm not a jock? 8)

[Tim Griffin]

I still find it amusing that for all of the tone talk about pickups, necks, amps,wood,amps, pedals etc... some of the same folks find a Bose PA to be good sound.