Jimmy Page with a B-bender

[TheGoodTexan]

Being a casual Zeppelin fan, although not really directly influenced by Page's playing, I thought that particual clip of Hot Dog was a horrible example of the entire band, nobody getting a pass.

Page's sloppiness as a player, in general doesn't turn me off. I'm a huge fan of Joe Walsh and Marc Ford, and those guys are pretty sloppy at times. But that particular clip is about as poor as I've ever heard Page play.

I'm sure that chemical indulgences add a lot to it.

I say that because one of my favorite recent recordings is Jimmy Page live with The Black Crowes. There are two CDs worth of live tracks where Page absolutely NAILS his classic licks. With Rich Robinson and Audley Freed accompanying Page, they were actually able to pull off a few Zeppelin tunes that Zeppelin had never attempted live.

So I'm not slamming Page in general....just that particualr clip.

I also heard (total rumor here) that the Page/Crowes tour had to be cut short, specifically because Page's old demons were messing with him again. To his credit, I heard that it was Page's purposeful decision to remove himself from the environment. That's all hearsay.

[TheGoodTexan]

oh yeah.....and I saw no inspiring B-bending in that video either. It actually sounded like someone in a music store playing a B-bender Tele for the first time, trying to find some licks where a B-bender works.

(getting flash backs from my old music store days)

[trag-o-caster]

Originally Posted by TheGoodTexan

I'm a huge fan of Joe Walsh and Marc Ford, and those guys are pretty sloppy at times. But that particular clip is about as poor as I've ever heard Page play.

.

Isn't that video clip from the 79 Knebworth Festival??? It looks like it is to me. If so, than that would be some of Pagey's BEST playing from that particular show. I have the whole thing on tape, and it truly is an utter disgrace on Jimmy's behalf. I've never heard him play that bad - EVER!

Also, to be fair, Jimmy toured America a couple of times with broken fingers on his right hand - the 1975 tour comes to mind. But such is not the case in 79.

Has Page gotten his playing back together nowadays??? I've never heard any Black Crowes stuff, or anything after The Firm for that matter (whom I like - but not for the guitar playing).

I really do root for the guy, even though I don't sound like it usually. If I'm being kind, I tend to think of him as the English equivalent of James Burton.

[Colo Springs E]

Originally Posted by Mark Davis

Well if they all sat down to jam Clapton and Page would have to hang their heads in shame after hearing Beck.

......hang his head in shame if they all sat down for a SONG-WRITING CONTEST.

Pretty sure Pagey and Clapton would win in a blow-out there.

[halouis]

i too blame the chemicals. Page was great! but the chemicals messed him up bad.

that said, I saw J. Mascis Live a few years ago. One of my fav. guitarists. The show was awesome and he was loud as hell. BUT ... i later got a bootleg recording of that exact show and ya know... it didn;t sound nearly as good. flubbed a lot of licks and parts. vocals were pretty off key in places (yeah yeah i know that's sorta his style ala Neil Young), but in a bad way.

I never saw Zep live, and yeah he was big into the chemicals and stuff, but sometimes BEING THERE is a very different experience than picking it apart later on. It's like seeing KISS live aint what you hear on KISS "Alive". Yet the shows are amazing.

there are some artists who are technicians and pull it off all the time. then there are some who are damn good, but would prefer to put on a big Rock show and not worry too much about the technical end.

just a thought.

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by Roli

That's easy. Santana, of course. ;)

Clapton and Santana could compare notes on their repetitive 12th fret weedly-deedlys.

[genelovesjez]

Originally Posted by Colo Springs E

......hang his head in shame if they all sat down for a SONG-WRITING CONTEST.

Pretty sure Pagey and Clapton would win in a blow-out there.

Maybe if they had a time machine handy. Otherwise, we're just finding the tallest midget.

[ravelle]

thanks for the video..makes me realise how important muting of strings are. and that i suck at it.

[moondoggie999]

Originally Posted by TheGoodTexan

oh yeah.....and I saw no inspiring B-bending in that video either. It actually sounded like someone in a music store playing a B-bender Tele for the first time, trying to find some licks where a B-bender works.

(getting flash backs from my old music store days)

I'm sorry bout that, TGT, that was me with the b-bender in your music store. lol

[TheGoodTexan]

Originally Posted by genelovesjez

Maybe if they had a time machine handy. Otherwise, we're just finding the tallest midget.

That's the funniest thing that I've read on this board in years. :)

[Tim Bowen]

Originally Posted by Tim Bowen

Jeff Beck remains the greatest rock electric guitarist I've heard in my lifetime, and that would include a guy named Hendrix (*hides in the bushes*). In my estimation, Jeff Beck's marriage of technique and emotion has no equal; he's the Leonardo, the Miles Davis, of rock guitar.

Originally Posted by David Barnett

I agree that Beck is the man, I think he has more physical ability and control over the instrument than the other classic guitar gods. But I disagree with the Miles Davis comparison for two reasons - first, Beck can't write. Miles' writing and arranging were arguably more important than his playing, I think Page is more comparable to Davis than Beck is. Secondly, Beck seems to like to throw every trick he knows into every song. He blows his whole wad by the end of the first verse, to the point where all the repeated Beck-isms become tedious. If he would use the tricks as a spice instead of a staple, I think it would sound better.

Actually, Jeff Beck can and does "write". Check the catalog (especially recent releases) for credits. Whether or not I'm a fan of his compositions is beside the (my) point. Page was part of a songwriting team, so to speak, but I mostly admire him as the quintessential rock RiffMeister and parlayer of great parts and textures. I'm a song guy, and I don't think of these guys really as being song writers, in the sense that I would think of, say, Gram Parsons, as a writer. I enjoy the aforementioned guys for their noises and guitar playing and arrangement ideas, mostly.

Miles Davis was certainly a composer, and quite easily my personal fave within the realm of jazz. My whimsical comparison to Beck was speaking more to the level of "improviser", and as vastly different as they are/were, the instantly identifiable quirks and nuances of their "playing" are what leads, and has led, me to 'equate' them. No science here, just a personal point of reference that I was silly enough to ramble about.

To respond to your last point is to simply further expound on my personal taste, but it doesn't bug me to do so. That said - and with no disrepect to anyone who visits, or is represented, on these boards - Jeff Beck's playing, on his very worst day, is far more interesting and visceral *to me* than any guitarist, on their best day, from any genre, that we discuss on these boards. He plays "instrumental guitar music". As mentioned earlier, I'm a "song guy". I don't get out much anymore to hear music, other than if I myself am working, but when I do, I choose to hear great songs and bands. Jeff Beck is the only "guitar player playing instrumental music" that I'll get off the couch and go pay good money to hear. That's not to disregard the immense talents of others, whatsoever. He's just the only guy that can hold my attention for a solid hour an a half, with little more than a Stratocaster, a Marshall, and one hell of an imagination and sense of humor. Other than that guy, I pursue (what I feel to be) great songs.

[RevMike]

Originally Posted by moondoggie999

but did that look like a rosewood tele to anyone?

Page calls that one his "Botswana Brown Tele". Its a 59 Body with a Parsons/White B Bender, painted a chocolate brown. The neck is a replacement neck. Not sure if its even a Fender. Although I'm not a huge Page or Zep fan, it was that Tele that made me want to play Teles. Had a poster of Page playing that guitar in my room when I was a teenager. Always thought that was a seriously cool axe.

[trag-o-caster]

Originally Posted by RevMike

Page calls that one his "Botswana Brown Tele". Its a 59 Body with a Parsons/White B Bender, painted a chocolate brown. The neck is a replacement neck. Not sure if its even a Fender. Although I'm not a huge Page or Zep fan, it was that Tele that made me want to play Teles. Had a poster of Page playing that guitar in my room when I was a teenager. Always thought that was a seriously cool axe.

Yes the "Botswana Brown" Tele - I've always read that it's the psychedelic painted Tele that Beck gave to him, but repainted.

[kp8]

In the late 70s, early 80s Page was a mess. If i remeber right he was back on hard drugs by then (heroin) and was found on the london subway stoned out of his mind in 1981. This was not Page's best moment. In Through the Out door has a lot of JPJ songs on it as Page's output had waned, and the live shows from this time were notoriously bad... Page was in a bad place at the time.

i saw clapton, beck and page together in 1983. Clappers sucked and was boring, Beck kicked booty!!!! Page was stepping on stage for the first time in forever in a day, and played lots of odd stuff like sound track items and such, and clearly was a liddle rusty, but he got the biggest loudest standing O i ever heard and it was really emotional for a lot of folks who grew up adoring is music but never saw him live.

Led Zepplin was a very great band. Clapton & Beck maybe had more chops then Page, but ultimatly, for my $ Page, as an artist, composer accomplished so much more. (please, note i grew up a huge clapton and beck fan! and i still admire beck) In the 1970s it was Page's world and we were just living in it. Did he he have the best chops? no, did he have the best sound? no. Did he have the best songs? and the biggest impact? I have very little doubt of it. Just my opinion.

As for Eric Johnson?

1. as a musician, he is just not in the same class as these guy, really not even close.

2. I have seen him flub a bunch. I hate watching him play cause, while he makes fewer mistakes, the ones he makes some how seem more horrible.

[Lyle Caldwell]

That Tele has the neck from the "dragon" but a different body.

That clip doesn't say anything about Page's playing ability, but rather it's an excellent example of how heroin and alcohol can ruin even a great player.

He's much recovered in every sense today.

[T Prior]

sorry..

this is the first time I have ever heard anyone anywhere state that EJ was not in the same class MUSICIANSHIP wise compard to LZ'eprs...

[Lyle Caldwell]

Oh, as a player he's well ahead of any of those guys. As a musician he's very much behind them.

[Roli]

(It would be better to start a new thread about this, but I do think Eric Johnson IS a musician.)

[Lyle Caldwell]

Of course he's a musician. He's a very good musician and much better than the vast majority of people in this group, certainly including myself.

But he's not in the top tier with the Beatles, Hendrix, Zep, Floyd, Allman Bros, etc, who combined instrumental ability with songwriting ability and influenced almost all subsequent rock/pop/country players.

That's not a harsh thing to say - it's realistic. You could say the same of Vai and of some of the notable players in this forum.

[jpkusa]

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[Silverface]

Page is his usual sloppy horrible self live, he is only good in the studio

Mark, add "In my opinion" to that statement and I'd have some respect for it. But do you have a copy of the DVD set with Royal Albert Hall and Madison Square Garden on it? If so, then I say you're flat wrong. If not, you might want to watch it and it'll change your view.

[Roli]

Originally Posted by Lyle Caldwell

Of course he's a musician. He's a very good musician and much better than the vast majority of people in this group, certainly including myself.

But he's not in the top tier with the Beatles, Hendrix, Zep, Floyd, Allman Bros, etc, who combined instrumental ability with songwriting ability and influenced almost all subsequent rock/pop/country players.

That's not a harsh thing to say - it's realistic. You could say the same of Vai and of some of the notable players in this forum.

Desert Rose easily could be a Beatles song.

[dhdfoster]

Interesting. It looks like Page fans rationalize their hero's actual abilities almost as much as Jerry Garcia and Carlos Santana fans.

All in good fun.