Cream reunion...let sleeping dogs lie.

[skiraly017]

I was just as excited as anyone else when I heard Cream was reuniting and as soon as the shows started hitting Bit Torrent I was all over them. I had high hopes that Clapton's awful tone was a result of the bootleg recording, but after seeing the show on PBS last night I realized that it wasn't the recording. Clapton's tone was terrible. Dark, muffled and full of that mid-boost control. I can't say that I was overly impressed with his playing either. There were a few bright spots, but for me Clapton's playing peaked with Derek and the Dominos, It was good to see three very strong personalities put aside their differences and play again but there was something missing. I listened to Cream "Live - Volume 1 & 2" on the way to work this morning. I think that's the way I'd prefer to remember them.

[singlecoilheaven]

Tone is a very subjective thing, but I will agree with you on what I heard as I watched it last night. To me, Clapton's tone has always been....lackluster. Last night it sounded to me like ultra-heavy compression was killing his sound. That's just my opinion.

[BrianF]

His tone is exactly the way it should be for the gear he's using. Tweed Twins with a Strat with the active mod-boost. No compressor unless there's one in the audio mix. He's hearing what he likes and unfortunately it's not what most other people like to hear from him (me included). He either actually prefers that tone or he's gone tone deaf? I still appreciate re-union and the performances. You can enjoy the performances and the re-union more if you just forget about the tone.

[skiraly017]

...the original live version of "Crossroads" inspired me to play. 30 plus years later that version still gives me goose bumps. The tone, the feel and they way he approached the song is unreal. The reunion performances didn't move me in the same way. Just my opinion.

[Joe-Bob]

Clapton can still play when he wants to. In the video, The Sessions for Robert Johnson, he was in really good form. He should have used a Gibson LP or SG and some Marshall stacks for the Cream shows...I don't know what he was thinking.

[Don Mare]

Dark, muffled and full of that mid-boost control.

Same here -- I can't take that -- or the Lace Sensor era stuff eaither.. It just sounds like a cheap fake guitar, EMG's are better then that stuff, but even those can get to ya...

Heck-- most folks get ruffled when I say this but DANNY GATTONS BARDEN's gets to me too-- although that takes about 45 miniutes before my skins crawling, with those mid-booster Fenders its instant.. and it reeks of one thing the HIPPIES where strongly against..
SELLING OUT!
To Clapton he's doing what he thinks is him, He publicly admits the Lace Sensors have become him and he prefers them over the VN's... Jeff Lace told me when he saw Clapton in Concert with the VN's that the tone was dark and muffled also...

I don't think Clapton feels like so many of his Fans do that the Real Blackie & Brownie and the Gibsons were him... not some mid-boosted 90's processed garble...

Speaking of which JEFF BECK's tone on my new DVD's here also sounds dark and a bit muffled.. not as appearent with Jeff -- but its there --

I wish Fender would let these guys experiment with pups if there not already? who knows.. it all seems odd that our guitar heros who were responsable for so many great tones from guitars in our lifetimes are suddenly some how disconnected from that? I don't get it?

I did talk with Buck Dharma backstage about the old equipment and tone and got him to half way admit they miss it..

but he mentioned the failure rate of Vintage gear vs. the availbility and factory tour support of new gear, and that they felt safer knowing a new piece of equipment would be flown out if anything broke..etc.. and that they also felt they were able to dial in some cool tones and that, ya get to where ya like new gear and trying new things..

so I dunno..

I would love to see Jeff and Eric play Vintage gear and just jam for hours on end one more time in our life times..

a SUPERSTAR--VINTAGE GEAR TOUR Sponsered by Vintage Guitar magAzines???...

[BrianF]

which is fine if he feels so comfortable with the action of it etc...but why not take one of those Strats and stick a bridge humbucker in it for Eric???

[Tremo]

I agree. Those mid boosters sound awful.

Yeah, if clapper likes the feel of a Strat, get one with a bathtub route and put in a pair of humbuckers.

[jaybee001]

I don't know, I'd think Clapton or Beck have enough influence / money to get / buy whatever they like, so they probably HAVE what they want...

now to turn the issue around - how would YOU like it when someone came up to you and told you they think your tone sucks and you should REALLY start playing a different guitar, through a different amp, with different effects and hey, know what, use different licks while you're at it...

[teletin]

Originally Posted by jaybee001

how would YOU like it when someone came up to you and told you they think your tone sucks and you should REALLY start playing a different guitar, through a different amp, with different effects

I don't think that's the point. The Cream played a reunion concert so it's not that odd to expect the same songs and the same sounds. Cream was all Marshall and Gibson, no Fender in sight.
Me too was very dissapointed with the sound EC got and his use of a strat for these concerts. A tele would have been a better choice (if he insists on Fender) and of course an sg/es335 would have done best.

[Oskar]

Here are three guys, two of whom have gone through hell and back with medical and personal problems, and Clapton with his share, who decided to get together after 37 years and do a concert for their fans. God bless 'em for it. they didn't have to do it, but they did.
I think it's unfair to get on Clapton's case for his tone and playing. So what if he's playing the strat. Was it really that wretching to listen to? We all act like he's some dimwit who doesn't know enough to use an SG & a Marshall and we know best for Eric. I'd like to think he had a valid reason for using the equipment he did.

I'm not a tone-hound and most would probably cringe at my sound, but what I saw had great energy and sounded fantastic. And to see this historic band playing live in 2005 was a treat. After all, the original Hendrix Experience can't regroup, neither can the Doors, Beatles, etc. and Cream was without a doubt one of the most important groups of the 60s.
The one thing I came away with was how much all three depended on each other. The focus was always on Clapton, but watching Bruce & Baker play it was obvious to me that Cream was not Clapton alone. As a matter of fact he would have been just another noodler up there if it were not for the other two.
We all want to live in "our" time when music was at its peak. Well, people change, and we all get older and things just don't stay the same. I was just grateful to have the opportunity to see Cream, even if it was decades later, on a small TV screen and through a tinny 7" speaker. It's all about the history.

[teletin]

Originally Posted by Oskar

I was just grateful to have the opportunity to see Cream, even if it was decades later, on a small TV screen and through a tinny 7" speaker. It's all about the history.

Well, of course you are right and thank you for the lesson 8)

It's just that when you watch the Farewell Concert there's so much raw energy and power going on which still amazes to this day. There's less of that in the Reunion Concert, but indeed we are getting older and so are EC/JB/GB. Cream was all power and tremendous musicality in the era of my youth. But that was then.
Then it completely blew me away (still does).

And than that drummer! The most musical drummer in rock history: Ginger Baker, the man who shaped and changed drumming. I can listen for hours to this guy, way in his sixties! If I could play like that I'd sell all guitars and buy some sticks.

The first day the Reunion Concert was available on dvd I bought it and didn't regret it for one day.

[Spidercaster]

FWIW - I caught the last few minutes of the TV show, but was fortunate enough to see them live in NY a few months ago. I'm no expert on tone, but there was really no comparison to how they sounded on my TV compared to how the sounded at MSG. It was a great concert, and I was happy to have had the opportunity to see them.

[shakedancer]

A great reunion!! Seen it last night. THey made me proud. Even now, they sound way better than any of the crappy bands playing today. Anyone who was a teenager in the " Summer of Love" could not help but have a smile on their face and feel good. For the most part I haven't really gone crazy over the heavy mid-tones of Clapton's sound lately, but for what they were playing his tone was great. His playing as always was tasteful!! No wasted notes with Eric!!! God bless them!! What I seen last night was "CREAM".

[Ray G]

Unfortunately most people won't ever hear Clapton do his best playing. One concert in particular at the Meadowlands in NJ 1985 he played so good it was scarey, I'd never heard him play or sound as good before or since. I guess when he feels like turning it on he turns it on. Judging from the above show I'd say he was a damned guitar wizard... he probably feels like he's got nothing to prove though.

[agent2x4]

Count your blessings...at least he wasn't trying to pull it off playing a parker fly. Although I suppose one of those with hb's would probably have given you more of the tone you're looking for. :)

Someday these guys will be dead, and you'll look back at these shows with fondness instead of dissapointment.

Having said that, you'd think they would want to use gear that would be appropriate for the era they are trying to recapture....kind of like trying to make salsa with ketchup instead of tomatoes. At least it would have placated the purist element of their audience.

[chet]

Maybe Cream found out that:

You can't go home again.

[Deaf Eddie]

The show won't be broadcast by my local affiliate until December 13, so I am eagerly reading all the posts. I don't want to hijack the thread, but this just keeps nagging at me: it seems like a LOT of you pickers don't like the tone of Clapton's reunion rig... Which begs a point that has troubled me to no end, all these years... Alright now, how many of you got more than a little ill with the tone change from Fresh Cream to Disraeli Gears? Yuk!

My take: Fresh Cream sounded like a Les Paul through a tube amp, turned up REAL loud; Disraeli Gears was who-knows-what played through an overdriven overdrive channel on who-knows-what amp. All that hideous flute-tone fuzziness - woman tone, indeed!

I read an article around that time in which Clapton claimed he would never use a fuzz pedal. Geez, with the tone he had for Disraeli Gears, who needs one?!? He obviously was using a completely new and different amp setup...

Now, think back on it - like, SWABLR! - isn't that an awful lot like the tone he gets with those mid-boosted Strats he uses now? So, maybe THAT'S the Cream tone he intended to recapture. 'Cuz, you know he's certainly not locked into that tone - just give a listen to "From The Cradle" - his best work of the last ten years, IMHO. Maybe he's using that rig/tone because that's just how he remembers it.

Sorry, this should probably be posted over on the LP forum, but I just don't feel comfortable over there...

I saw Cream in, maybe, '68, here in San Diego. As I recall they played in the underground parking garage at the Community Concourse. Clapton played a single pup Firebird (pretty sure it was an unmodded P90 model)through a Marshall stack (or two) all night, LOUD, and the tone - and his playing - absolutely KILLED. Oh my! I went looking for a Firebird the very next day. Aside from that, the other stand-out memory from the concert was when, about half way through the gig, Ginger Baker stands up behind his kit and pulls one of the drum mics close, to announce: "Will the members of the audience please refrain from playing the tamborines. You are 'frowing me off beat..."

Ah, the sixties!

[charlie chitlin]

Hopefully Jack and Ginger will be able to make a few bucks and take some of the sting out of their terrible deal with Bob Stigwood way back when.
I think thy sold their rights to Cream for $100k each.
Clapton held on to his 1/3.

[shakedancer]

One other thing, cut Eric some slack. He's been to the pinnacle and he is now 60 years old. The guy was the best!! Can anyone drive a crowd into a frenzy like he did on the Band farewell concert? Chuck Berry was on his knees at Eric's feet in the movie Keith did on Chuck. All the people all these years have not been wrong. Also , from 1966 on he probably inspired more up and coming great and not so great guitar players than anyone. Hendrix loved Eric's playing . The people on this forum who were there in the 60's know what I'm talking about.

[DlxNashvilleLuvr]

I was surprised how much he made the Strat sound like a mid-rangey humbucker guitar. His guitar was only as muddy and fuzzy as it is on the live Cream discs I have.

So you thought his guitar had too much mid-boost, so you want him to get rid of it for a Les Paul or SG, the most mid-rangey, bass-heavy and potentially muddy guitars out there?

His tone had little to do with why you didn't like it. It's because the Strat broke the illusion of it being 1968. If he had a Joker SG, with the `fro and frilly shirt, you would have loved it more than ever. The selling point is a recreation of your youth. That's why Aerosmith has to be botxed and put in their weaves, so the audience can feel its still 1978 and that they're still young, too. As soon as Aerosmith breaks out a post-78 song the audience mood goes downhill. Those songs remind them of the transition into responsibilities and degrading, drudgery-filled adult jobs.

The tone was the same, and the show was enjoyable.

[DogsRunFree]

chet said

Maybe Cream found out that:

You can't go home again.

"You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way."- B. Dylan

[AZMIKE]

As I posted in the other Cream reunion thread, I loved the concert, taped the PBS special, and hope to get the DVD for Christmas. I rarely get into discussions of tone, because I think it is so subjective, but I was tempted when I saw this thread.

I was also thinking of some other reasons why I liked the show so much, then I read Oskar and DlxNashvilleLuvr's posts, and they both said it much better than I could

I don't want to sound like a parrot, so I'll just say that I agree all the way, guys. Thanks.

Mike

[sound dog]

While I can't say I didn't enjoy the show(cause I did), I can understand the posts about Clapton's guitar sound. I thought he had a decent enough sound and what he played was very fine, but Clapton's signature "woman tone" was originally achieved with Gibsons with humbuckers, going through Marshalls. He didn't really start the Strat thing until Derek & the Dominos(or maybe even Delaney & Bonnie).

It would be the same effect as if Angus Young were to come out in 2020 and launch into "Hells Bells" with a Tele through a Vibro King, or if Bill Kirchen were to come out with a Firebird and go into Hot Rod Lincoln. It just ain't the sound we associate with the music at hand, even if what they were playing was amazing.