Cream reunion...let sleeping dogs lie. - Page 2

Bill Hullett · December 3rd, 2005, 12:32 PM

Yeah in a way I agree Dave........I always thought that a Marshall had a chromizone (sp) missing!!!! A Tweed bassman or low powered Twin will kick its butt in the tone dept.!!!

I'll add this......After being a kid and seeing them live ..Years later I was cutting an album project with David Ball here in Nashville...The engineer was Bill Halverson........He was the guy that recorded cream live....needless to say I grilled him non stop about it and he lamented how nearly immpossible it was to get anything worth listening to on tape because of the shear volume on stage and his lack of ability to harness it....

Some eliments of the original Cream are better remembered and not relived...

Bill Hullett

Jimo · December 3rd, 2005, 12:56 PM

AS was mentioned ,Clapton did use Gibson's on the album with "Tore Down"---that was just a few years ago. Maybe Fender gave him a big paycheck. Maybe he wanted to stop the "Well, they used the same equipment but it just didn't sound the same" b.s. that would have surely went around. They all played much more "controlled" than when they were with Cream, but that might be a good thing---half the time Cream couldn't even hear each other on stage and they all seemed to be soloing at the same time. To me, Cream had some great songs and some absolute crap songs. Ginger used "DW" drums---they were different---Jacks bass was what? Overall, I would have rather heard the Gibson's and Marshall's seeing as it was a "reunion" and not their solo gigs--------------But no one ever ask my opinion-----ha!--------cheers!----JIMO :D :D

BrianF · December 3rd, 2005, 01:16 PM

Quote:

A Tweed bassman or low powered Twin will kick its butt in the tone dept.!!!

Bill.... I agree that the Tweed Twin amp isn't responsible for the EC's tone-complaints.

It's the quacky Strat with the mid-booster mush thats the culprit. A great Tele would sound way better!

Oskar · December 3rd, 2005, 01:29 PM

Code:

and he lamented how nearly immpossible it was to get anything worth listening to on tape because of the shear volume on stage and his lack of ability to harness it....

There is a verifiable story in a short book on cream by a guy named Welch where, I believe, Clapton is quoted on a concert they did that was so loud both he and Baker stopped playing, and Bruce, who apparently was the loudest of all kept on chooglin'. Didn't even realize the others were no longer playing.
Cream without question was extremely loud. I never saw them, but in 1968 I did see Johnny Winter and my ears stopped ringing in 1997. He was LOUD!!

refin · December 3rd, 2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Hullett

Yeah in a way I agree Dave........I always thought that a Marshall had a chromizone (sp) missing!!!! A Tweed bassman or low powered Twin will kick its butt in the tone dept.!!!

Some eliments of the original Cream are better remembered and not relived...

Bill Hullett

What Bill said......

Dr. T · December 3rd, 2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DlxNashvilleLuvr

I was surprised how much he made the Strat sound like a mid-rangey humbucker guitar. His guitar was only as muddy and fuzzy as it is on the live Cream discs I have...The tone was the same, and the show was enjoyable.

I thought the same. I also thought that EC played with more taste, finesse and creativity than the considerable amounts he displayed in the Cream days.

Who here is using the same rig they started out on? I'd guess a minority. And Eric Clapton, at 60, after drug and alcohol problems and the attendant health issues and general craziness that go with them, has not only not killed himself - deliberately or accidentally - but has emerged triumphant, stayed recovered, and is still a musical force to be reckoned with. At his stage of life, after all he's been through, he can still outplay anybody on this forum, I'd guess, and just about any other.

With respect. Everybody's entitled to their opinion, and this is mine.

shakedancer · December 3rd, 2005, 08:04 PM

I'm with you Doc!!! 8)

kp8 · December 3rd, 2005, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sound dog

It would be the same effect as if Angus Young were to come out in 2020 and launch into "Hells Bells" with a Tele through a Vibro King

just as a side note, i read where Angus LOVED the tele. He said that if it weren't for the SG, he would have layed a tele and thought that the SG and the Tele were the only guitars he truly felt comfotable playing.

Can you imagine? It is so hard to picture him with a tele, but he apparently picked on one at home often.

It was in one of those "guitar legends" magazine interviews.

-k

kp8 · December 3rd, 2005, 09:21 PM

.

maybe he is just moe comfy with his strats. I read an interview where he said he was really struggling in rehersals going back to a trio format where he had to play so freaking much in every song. I heard 2 songs from the albert hall shows and was expecting the worst. I was pleasantly impressed. I don't care for his tone much nowadaze but i was kind of interested in how he brought these old chestnuts to life in a really different manner. I am really curious to check out the DVD and more than checking EC's tone, i am curious to hear what new musical twists he put on stuff. I hate much of his recent slop but Cream meant a lot to me as a boy. I think it was kind of touching to see those three on stage again. I don't expect them to sound like they did in the sixties but i am really curious to hear the DVD.

I still love JB and his distinctive voice, "Deserted Cities" is such a great tune (not EC's best solo but the song is terrific).

(but for the record that super drenched guitar sound on Sleepy time still really gets me *^-^*)

I am glad they had the courage to revist this old material and step on stage again.

bravo for them. I wish i could have gone.... if only they did some concerts for poor people. Those tix were expensive.

-kp--

.

DlxNashvilleLuvr · December 4th, 2005, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp8

Quote:

Originally Posted by sound dog

It would be the same effect as if Angus Young were to come out in 2020 and launch into "Hells Bells" with a Tele through a Vibro King

just as a side note, i read where Angus LOVED the tele. He said that if it weren't for the SG, he would have layed a tele and thought that the SG and the Tele were the only guitars he truly felt comfotable playing.

On those early AC/DC albums like "High Voltage" I'm just certain I'm hearing a Telecaster in there somewhere. My SG and Teles are my favorite guitars, too.

BrianF · December 4th, 2005, 03:01 AM

I just listened to the 1993 Cream Hall of Fame Induction footage, and EC was playing his signature Strat with the booster, but he was playing into Soldano full-stack. His tone and playing sounded pretty darn good there....

stephent2 · December 4th, 2005, 04:59 AM

I didn't mind ECs tone, I could hear everything he played, wasn't mush to my ears. Certainly could hear the Tone Tubby spkrs.

Some of the songs did put me to sleep, but I enjoyed most of the material.

I thought they played well together, sounded like a band. Came away with a better understanding of Jack Bruce and the fine bassist he is. Many of those songs would be difficult to keep afloat and they did mighty fine, IMO.

I think EC played the Strat because he's most at home on one, he knows the territory. I thought his playing was quite good, measured and safe but still masterful. Sure liked it better than the unplugged stuff.

KBR · December 4th, 2005, 02:17 PM

I thought they sounded pretty good, hey a 2 Hour set 4 nights in a row ain't easy when you are 60, or 60+.

I prefer Eric on a Gibson, but the Tweed twins and his 335 (Hyde Park DVD he does 2 freddie King songs and has the Old Beano sound, kills on em.)

I thought EC played well on the Albert Hall DVD, I just don't blame him for using a Strat, the most comfortable Guitar out there, I just wish he would add some HBers to it!, Tom Holmes, Voodoo's both make em excellent!

IMHO
KBR

d. meyers · December 4th, 2005, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5965

Who was that guy with Bruce and Baker trying to force jazz scales and modes into the blues?

Duke Ellington?

stevieboy · December 4th, 2005, 02:41 PM

I respect everyone's opinion about this, but personally I think they did it just the way they should have, that is, who they are today getting together and playing, not trying to be who they were back then. Clapton plays a Strat, he has for decades. I haven't followed Bruce or Baker, but they both sounded real and natural. The result wasn't the barrage of sound that Cream had in the sixties, but now it's the sixties as in their age, not the decade. It was a lot more sparse but it was in my opinion all there, very cool and interesting.

Tim Armstrong · December 4th, 2005, 03:03 PM

Yeah, I agree. Cream today is Cream TODAY. Clapton has been a Strat player for what, 30+ years? As for his amps, it's already been pointed out that a Tweed Twin is actually closer to the 60s Marshall amps than a lot of amps made today, even by Marshall. And today, you don't NEED a Marshall stack or three to carry a concert hall.

I'm just glad that they're all still alive and able to play, and are obviously enjoying themselves!

Cheers, Tim

John Harrison · December 4th, 2005, 03:45 PM

I finally saw the Cream reuinion, last night, and I don't know what all the fuss is about. Other than we all have our own opinions and, like out noses, they all smell, it seems that the naysayers wanted it to be something other than what it was.
Cream was only around for a couple of years. During that time, they were revolutionizing music and on an equal footing with all the other iconic groups of their day (including, if not superior to, The Jimi Hendrix Experience*). That was almost 40 years ago.
Unlike many of their compatriots, the members of Cream have survived their excesses (including their musical excesses!), explored other musical regions, and patched up their differences, at least long enough to get back together and play.
Sure, on some numbers, when compared to their heyday, there seemed to be less fire. Mostly, to my ears, what I missed were the embellishments (handbells, second guitar, etc.) from the original recordings. While time may have slowed them down (more physically than musically, from my observation), their individual virtuoisity, artistry and restraint were quite present. Each acquitted themself with grace, showed reverence for the material, and seemed to be having a high time of it, as well.
I'm sure it would have made great theatre to have trotted them out in retrofitted psychedellic trappings (Dylan haircuts, puffy shirts, light shows, Marshall stacks, etc.). Maybe, Todd Rundgren should have loaned Clapton the "Fool" painted SG.
Regardless, someone would be complaining about some aspect of the show. That's an individual's prerogative. For me, thank goodness that Mssrs. Clapton, Bruce, and Baker graced us, once again, with their incredible, incredible music, which, to my ears, has mellowed like vintage wine.

* Just my smelly opinion, mind you.

Silverface · December 4th, 2005, 06:27 PM

I'm with John Harrison.

Whining about "Clapton's tone wasn't as good as in '68" or "I wish he'd use Gibsons" or "why did they slow down this or that song" is lame.

These guys are amazing musicians and inspired many players. If you don't like equipment they use now, I doubt they give a warthog's behind. They're NOT GOING TO SOUND LIKE 1969. NO MATTER WHAT YOU WANT.

Guys - let it GO. For Pete's sake, just let them play, enjoy it for what it is NOW.

I'm glad as hall they did the reunion. It was fun. It wasn't perfect. And I didn't care. I just liked seeing 3 still-living musical geniuses play live again.

If you want to criticize tone or playing, start with your own playing and skill level - and accomplishments. Then clam up before you even try to diss these guys, because most of you aren't the hair on the backside of any of 'em.

I find the criticisms a complete laugh.

John Harrison · December 4th, 2005, 07:11 PM

I'm with Silverface, though I don't think they'd give Pressed Rat's behind.

Pretty Thing · December 5th, 2005, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiraly017

I was just as excited as anyone else when I heard Cream was reuniting and as soon as the shows started hitting Bit Torrent I was all over them. I had high hopes that Clapton's awful tone was a result of the bootleg recording, but after seeing the show on PBS last night I realized that it wasn't the recording. Clapton's tone was terrible. Dark, muffled and full of that mid-boost control. I can't say that I was overly impressed with his playing either. There were a few bright spots, but for me Clapton's playing peaked with Derek and the Dominos, It was good to see three very strong personalities put aside their differences and play again but there was something missing. I listened to Cream "Live - Volume 1 & 2" on the way to work this morning. I think that's the way I'd prefer to remember them.

Too bad for you, you saw it on TV. I was there, and his sound was definitely far from what you heard on television. I said to my wife, OMG that sounds like hell!
It didn't sound live at all, no resonance or reverberations whatsoever. Please don't judge them by what you heard on your probably mono television.

Great Ape · December 6th, 2005, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiraly017

I was just as excited as anyone else when I heard Cream was reuniting and as soon as the shows started hitting Bit Torrent I was all over them. I had high hopes that Clapton's awful tone was a result of the bootleg recording, but after seeing the show on PBS last night I realized that it wasn't the recording. Clapton's tone was terrible. Dark, muffled and full of that mid-boost control. I can't say that I was overly impressed with his playing either. There were a few bright spots, but for me Clapton's playing peaked with Derek and the Dominos, It was good to see three very strong personalities put aside their differences and play again but there was something missing. I listened to Cream "Live - Volume 1 & 2" on the way to work this morning. I think that's the way I'd prefer to remember them.

For me (and no doubt the flaming is coming), it wasn't just the tone - I thought his playing was lacklustre, also. Jack Bruce could've been louder. I thought Ginger was playing better than he has for a while, though. Loved that Masters of Reality album he did a while back, also....

shakedancer · December 6th, 2005, 02:35 PM

I humbly disagree Ape. I thought he played with passion. Maybe Bruce could have been louder but I thought his volume was fine. I could hear his playing!! 8) And Ginger was marvelous!!

BrianF · December 6th, 2005, 03:02 PM

EC and Cream were early pioneers in rock for improvising live. This involves inspiration and what comes out is a mixture of the technical licks, chops, musical ideas and raw experimentation with some element of taking risk (being out there on the edge).

The end result is hardly ever the same with some takes being better than others..... and some takes sounding more tired, un-inspired, or cliche-ridden than others.

On the whole the quality or excitment of the end result has to do with where the players' musical 'heads' are at and what condition their chops are in....etc etc

EC has been doing alot of pop lately and straight traditional blues. It may be that that is coloring his current Cream performances. It's where he's at musically right now.

The 1993 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Cream re-union performance proved to me that these guys can still play with the same fire as they did in their hayday. They were great there and that was only 12 years ago...and they can still be great on any given night.

You can download the video performance of that show and many others on this cool link

http://www.handmadewebsites.com/cream/

December 3rd, 2005, 12:32 PM	#41 (permalink)
Bill Hullett Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Nashville Tn. Posts: 1,212	FWIW Yeah in a way I agree Dave........I always thought that a Marshall had a chromizone (sp) missing!!!! A Tweed bassman or low powered Twin will kick its butt in the tone dept.!!! I'll add this......After being a kid and seeing them live ..Years later I was cutting an album project with David Ball here in Nashville...The engineer was Bill Halverson........He was the guy that recorded cream live....needless to say I grilled him non stop about it and he lamented how nearly immpossible it was to get anything worth listening to on tape because of the shear volume on stage and his lack of ability to harness it.... Some eliments of the original Cream are better remembered and not relived... Bill Hullett

December 3rd, 2005, 12:56 PM	#42 (permalink)
Jimo Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 615	kinda weird fo sho AS was mentioned ,Clapton did use Gibson's on the album with "Tore Down"---that was just a few years ago. Maybe Fender gave him a big paycheck. Maybe he wanted to stop the "Well, they used the same equipment but it just didn't sound the same" b.s. that would have surely went around. They all played much more "controlled" than when they were with Cream, but that might be a good thing---half the time Cream couldn't even hear each other on stage and they all seemed to be soloing at the same time. To me, Cream had some great songs and some absolute crap songs. Ginger used "DW" drums---they were different---Jacks bass was what? Overall, I would have rather heard the Gibson's and Marshall's seeing as it was a "reunion" and not their solo gigs--------------But no one ever ask my opinion-----ha!--------cheers!----JIMO :D :D

December 3rd, 2005, 01:29 PM	#44 (permalink)
Oskar Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northampton, MA Posts: 3,150	This is no surprise... Code: and he lamented how nearly immpossible it was to get anything worth listening to on tape because of the shear volume on stage and his lack of ability to harness it.... There is a verifiable story in a short book on cream by a guy named Welch where, I believe, Clapton is quoted on a concert they did that was so loud both he and Baker stopped playing, and Bruce, who apparently was the loudest of all kept on chooglin'. Didn't even realize the others were no longer playing. Cream without question was extremely loud. I never saw them, but in 1968 I did see Johnny Winter and my ears stopped ringing in 1997. He was LOUD!!

December 3rd, 2005, 08:04 PM	#47 (permalink)
shakedancer Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: north of Boston Posts: 1,634	I'm with you Doc!!! 8) __________________ "If you don't like the Blues, you got to have a Hole in your Soul." Luther Allison JOE

December 4th, 2005, 03:01 AM	#51 (permalink)
BrianF Friend of Leo's Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Carlsbad, Ca Posts: 2,154 7 Photos	1993 Cream Hall of Fame Induction I just listened to the 1993 Cream Hall of Fame Induction footage, and EC was playing his signature Strat with the booster, but he was playing into Soldano full-stack. His tone and playing sounded pretty darn good there....

December 3rd, 2005, 09:21 PM	#49 (permalink)
kp8 Friend of Leo's Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 2,792	. maybe he is just moe comfy with his strats. I read an interview where he said he was really struggling in rehersals going back to a trio format where he had to play so freaking much in every song. I heard 2 songs from the albert hall shows and was expecting the worst. I was pleasantly impressed. I don't care for his tone much nowadaze but i was kind of interested in how he brought these old chestnuts to life in a really different manner. I am really curious to check out the DVD and more than checking EC's tone, i am curious to hear what new musical twists he put on stuff. I hate much of his recent slop but Cream meant a lot to me as a boy. I think it was kind of touching to see those three on stage again. I don't expect them to sound like they did in the sixties but i am really curious to hear the DVD. I still love JB and his distinctive voice, "Deserted Cities" is such a great tune (not EC's best solo but the song is terrific). (but for the record that super drenched guitar sound on Sleepy time still really gets me ^-^) I am glad they had the courage to revist this old material and step on stage again. bravo for them. I wish i could have gone.... if only they did some concerts for poor people. Those tix were expensive. -kp-- .

December 4th, 2005, 04:59 AM	#52 (permalink)
stephent2 Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA. Age: 57 Posts: 2,459 20 Photos	I didn't mind ECs tone, I could hear everything he played, wasn't mush to my ears. Certainly could hear the Tone Tubby spkrs. Some of the songs did put me to sleep, but I enjoyed most of the material. I thought they played well together, sounded like a band. Came away with a better understanding of Jack Bruce and the fine bassist he is. Many of those songs would be difficult to keep afloat and they did mighty fine, IMO. I think EC played the Strat because he's most at home on one, he knows the territory. I thought his playing was quite good, measured and safe but still masterful. Sure liked it better than the unplugged stuff. __________________ ".. Pine cones go in here (points to still), party liquors comes out here and proceed to here (mouth). Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated". -- Earlie Cuyler, Squidbillies

December 4th, 2005, 02:17 PM	#53 (permalink)
KBR Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 650 10 Photos	Cream I thought they sounded pretty good, hey a 2 Hour set 4 nights in a row ain't easy when you are 60, or 60+. I prefer Eric on a Gibson, but the Tweed twins and his 335 (Hyde Park DVD he does 2 freddie King songs and has the Old Beano sound, kills on em.) I thought EC played well on the Albert Hall DVD, I just don't blame him for using a Strat, the most comfortable Guitar out there, I just wish he would add some HBers to it!, Tom Holmes, Voodoo's both make em excellent! IMHO KBR __________________ KBR http://home.earthlink.net/~blueray/

December 4th, 2005, 02:41 PM	#55 (permalink)
stevieboy Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: the valley Age: 57 Posts: 2,370 6 Photos	I respect everyone's opinion about this, but personally I think they did it just the way they should have, that is, who they are today getting together and playing, not trying to be who they were back then. Clapton plays a Strat, he has for decades. I haven't followed Bruce or Baker, but they both sounded real and natural. The result wasn't the barrage of sound that Cream had in the sixties, but now it's the sixties as in their age, not the decade. It was a lot more sparse but it was in my opinion all there, very cool and interesting. __________________ "One of the best bands ever. These guys were such perfectionist"--Youtube user comment

December 4th, 2005, 03:03 PM	#56 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Berlin, Maryland, USA Age: 49 Posts: 9,550	Yeah, I agree. Cream today is Cream TODAY. Clapton has been a Strat player for what, 30+ years? As for his amps, it's already been pointed out that a Tweed Twin is actually closer to the 60s Marshall amps than a lot of amps made today, even by Marshall. And today, you don't NEED a Marshall stack or three to carry a concert hall. I'm just glad that they're all still alive and able to play, and are obviously enjoying themselves! Cheers, Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

December 4th, 2005, 03:45 PM	#57 (permalink)
John Harrison Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Corvallis, OR Posts: 1,043	I finally saw the Cream reuinion, last night, and I don't know what all the fuss is about. Other than we all have our own opinions and, like out noses, they all smell, it seems that the naysayers wanted it to be something other than what it was. Cream was only around for a couple of years. During that time, they were revolutionizing music and on an equal footing with all the other iconic groups of their day (including, if not superior to, The Jimi Hendrix Experience). That was almost 40 years ago. Unlike many of their compatriots, the members of Cream have survived their excesses (including their musical excesses!), explored other musical regions, and patched up their differences, at least long enough to get back together and play. Sure, on some numbers, when compared to their heyday, there seemed to be less fire. Mostly, to my ears, what I missed were the embellishments (handbells, second guitar, etc.) from the original recordings. While time may have slowed them down (more physically than musically, from my observation), their individual virtuoisity, artistry and restraint were quite present. Each acquitted themself with grace, showed reverence for the material, and seemed to be having a high time of it, as well. I'm sure it would have made great theatre to have trotted them out in retrofitted psychedellic trappings (Dylan haircuts, puffy shirts, light shows, Marshall stacks, etc.). Maybe, Todd Rundgren should have loaned Clapton the "Fool" painted SG. Regardless, someone would be complaining about some aspect of the show. That's an individual's prerogative. For me, thank goodness that Mssrs. Clapton, Bruce, and Baker graced us, once again, with their incredible, incredible music, which, to my ears, has mellowed like vintage wine. Just my smelly opinion, mind you. __________________ How can you be two places at once when you're really nowhere at all?

December 4th, 2005, 06:27 PM	#58 (permalink)
Silverface Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hermosa Beach CA Age: 56 Posts: 1,923	I'm with John Harrison. Whining about "Clapton's tone wasn't as good as in '68" or "I wish he'd use Gibsons" or "why did they slow down this or that song" is lame. These guys are amazing musicians and inspired many players. If you don't like equipment they use now, I doubt they give a warthog's behind. They're NOT GOING TO SOUND LIKE 1969. NO MATTER WHAT YOU WANT. Guys - let it GO. For Pete's sake, just let them play, enjoy it for what it is NOW. I'm glad as hall they did the reunion. It was fun. It wasn't perfect. And I didn't care. I just liked seeing 3 still-living musical geniuses play live again. If you want to criticize tone or playing, start with your own playing and skill level - and accomplishments. Then clam up before you even try to diss these guys, because most of you aren't the hair on the backside of any of 'em. I find the criticisms a complete laugh. __________________ “No Chops – Great Tone” ©

December 4th, 2005, 07:11 PM	#59 (permalink)
John Harrison Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Corvallis, OR Posts: 1,043	I'm with Silverface, though I don't think they'd give Pressed Rat's behind. __________________ How can you be two places at once when you're really nowhere at all?

December 6th, 2005, 02:35 PM	#62 (permalink)
shakedancer Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: north of Boston Posts: 1,634	I humbly disagree Ape. I thought he played with passion. Maybe Bruce could have been louder but I thought his volume was fine. I could hear his playing!! 8) And Ginger was marvelous!! __________________ "If you don't like the Blues, you got to have a Hole in your Soul." Luther Allison JOE