Great guitarist, less than great band

Tony · October 14th, 2005, 12:42 PM

I've been reading the drumming flame posts a bit. I've also been listening again to Danny Gatton, Unfinished Business a lot lately. His drummers and back up band are incredible! Great guitarist, great band(s).

Which got me to thinking. Who are some of the great guitarists, past or present, who play or played with not so stellar a back-up band?

Smokin' Joe Picante · October 14th, 2005, 01:06 PM

Two players who I really like who were in (IMO) pretty marginal bands as far as songwriting goes, are George Lynch (from Dokken), and Warren DeMartini (from Ratt). I owned ALL thier albums but the songs were really the weakest thing on most of them. Dokken being more guilty than Ratt. But, man can those guys play some tasty solo's, and they're both phenomenal rhythm players!

Jeff Healey is a guy who I always thought needed to just lose his band. I'm not the biggest fan of his, but he has talent for sure. I saw him live once and watching that band heave itself through "straightened" blues grooves was just horrific. I think he had a loyalty thing going with his rhythm section. Pretty much everyone I talked to after the show agreed the band was nowhere near where he was at, but he's faithfully played with them for years.

chipl · October 14th, 2005, 05:12 PM

From the live tapes and CDs I've heard by Roy Buchanan, I often felt his backup guys, while competent, sounded like a decent bar band/cover band, while he was a brilliant one of a kind talent. So I'd suggest Roy for this thread.

Essex Boy · October 14th, 2005, 05:19 PM

Gatton's band were good but nothing AMAZING. His bass player John Previti was kinda cheesy in both looks and playing style.

Califiddler · October 15th, 2005, 12:16 PM

Django! Django and Stephane were awesome, but that Hot Club rhythm section was pretty muddy.

Charlie Bernstein · October 15th, 2005, 01:21 PM

...just to find out what he sounded like. first time i ever simultaneously wanted to turn an album up and turn it off.

the guitar playing was absolutely stratospheric (telespheric?), but the rest - the band, the lyrics, the tunes, the arrangements, the mixing - were excruciating - nashville at its most over-produced, saccharin-drenched schlockiest.

and he looks like the kind of person who spends a lot of time checking the mirror. or at least dressing for the camera. so why is he sitting in a mud puddle?

stop me before i start an i-don't-get thread...

Paul in Colorado · October 16th, 2005, 12:28 PM

The Eagles. 8)

J-man · October 16th, 2005, 12:34 PM

Yngwie Malmsteen, the guy can really shred, but the vocals, the lyrics, and the song writing is so BLOODY AWFUL!

Joe Harris · October 16th, 2005, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipl

From the live tapes and CDs I've heard by Roy Buchanan, I often felt his backup guys, while competent, sounded like a decent bar band/cover band, while he was a brilliant one of a kind talent. So I'd suggest Roy for this thread.

You are right on it !!!! Roy always had a crap band. And since he always decided to do corny cover tunes, he always came off as a local bar band with a good guitar player.

jmalever · March 16th, 2006, 04:20 PM

Hello,

I don't normally post to these forums, but I was browsing through some posts and just had to respond. I see that one poster claims John Previti both looks corny and has a corny playing style, more or less. I have to say that as someone who sees him play every other week, he is one of the best players I've seen. In any style. He can play everything (jazz, blues, country, rock) with authenticity and feeling. Upright and electric. One of the few who I have seen that can really play both instruments at a jaw dropping-level. Check him out at Chick Hall's Surf Club in Bladensburg in any of you are in the D.C. area. First and third Thursday of each month. There are virtually no crowds, but the music is amazing. FWIW.

Jonas

Teletwang · March 16th, 2006, 05:04 PM

Edward deserved better, musically, than Alex & Michael. But then again it sure did seem to work. Go figure.

TheGoodTexan · March 16th, 2006, 05:05 PM

If you've ever read my posts on SRV, you know where my heart on this.

I love SRV. And I love the stuff that Double Trouble has done post-SRV. I'm a huge fan of the ARC Angels album, and the Storyville stuff too. I thought that the Double Trouble release "Been a Long Time" had some great tunes on it....Doyle II.....and Jonny Lang (Groundhog Day).

However....I think that most of the drumming and bass playing on the SRV albums was mediocre. In Step was a little better....but not a lot of "groove" there. I can only imagine what Stevie could have done with groove-meisters like Billy Cox and Mitch Mitchell.

I thought that Family Style was a wonderful album. I still listen to it often. Very refreshing to me.

trag-o-caster · March 16th, 2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmalever

Hello,

I don't normally post to these forums, but I was browsing through some posts and just had to respond. I see that one poster claims John Previti both looks corny and has a corny playing style, more or less. I have to say that as someone who sees him play every other week, he is one of the best players I've seen. In any style. He can play everything (jazz, blues, country, rock) with authenticity and feeling. Upright and electric. One of the few who I have seen that can really play both instruments at a jaw dropping-level. Check him out at Chick Hall's Surf Club in Bladensburg in any of you are in the D.C. area. First and third Thursday of each month. There are virtually no crowds, but the music is amazing. FWIW.

Jonas

I agree 100%.

I always thought that John was one of the great underrated bassists of all time. I'll take him over Jaco anyday of the week. I saw him with Danny at Hart Plaza in Detroit back in 92-93, and he was just astounding. I got to talk with him afterward and found him to be a really nice guy as well.

Oskar · March 16th, 2006, 05:44 PM

I always thought Jon Popper was leagues ahead of his band. I saw them a couple of times just after they broke big and they struggled to keep up with him. As a matter of fact, I thought they could have just put their instruments down and let him do the show solo. Great harp player.

shakedancer · March 16th, 2006, 05:47 PM

Yeah, you should get flamed for that!! Well, it's only an opinion, so we'll give you a free pass 8) Yes, Family Style was great. I love " Brothers".

jjh37854 · March 16th, 2006, 05:48 PM

Willie Nelson, wow, what a horrible band.

Chris S. · March 16th, 2006, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essex Boy

Gatton's ... bass player John Previti was kinda cheesy in both looks and playing style.

Hmmm. I must've missed this thread last fall. But if you like, I'll be happy to pass your comments on to John the next time I see him and/or play with him.

Btw, he's a killer player – IMO, of course – but then again, I've only been familiar with him and his playing for the last 30 years or so. Perhaps he was cheesier (and cheesier looking!) prior to that...

He's also one of the funniest, warmest and most caring individuals I've ever been lucky enough to know. :) CS

Arhooliegeorge · March 16th, 2006, 07:47 PM

Janis Joplin's band's were poor imo.

I also believe Hendrix was generally ill-served. If only he and Clapton had swapped bands!

Guy I find amazing - an acoustic player called Nick Harper (son of Roy). His live solo show is mindblowing but he has recorded album's with bands who were dreadful.

David Barnett · March 16th, 2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arhooliegeorge

I also believe Hendrix was generally ill-served. If only he and Clapton had swapped bands!

Amazing. Noel Redding I could take or leave, but I think Mitch Mitchell was one of rock music's all time great drummers, and he was perfect for Hendrix' songs. Just my opinion of course. I think of Mitch Mitchell as the Jack DeJohnette of rock.

kingalingus · March 16th, 2006, 08:44 PM

The Hellecasters. The root-fifth, root-fifth bass lines, the I IV Vs, the boom-chick, boom-chick drum beats, the keys of E, A & G...They are far too talented to have allowed such boring rhythm tracks.

Flame away - but IMHO, I'm right!

* I only made it through their first 2 albums.

jlrich · March 16th, 2006, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjh37854

Willie Nelson, wow, what a horrible band.

The way Willie sings out of meter there's not a lot you can do without throwing your timing off.

Skully · March 16th, 2006, 09:52 PM

Flash guitar players, virtuoso bassists, etc., aren't worth a damn if they're not playing good material in an exciting band. And hot players don't necessarily make a band exciting, especially when it comes to rock and roll. This is why many of the guitar heroes worshipped by some on this and other guitar boards never found more than a small cult audience.

Of course, if a guitar player can play fast complicated parts and get good tone from boutique pedals and a high-end amp, he or she doesn't need good songs.

CharlieO · March 16th, 2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oskar

I always thought Jon Popper was leagues ahead of his band. I saw them a couple of times just after they broke big and they struggled to keep up with him. As a matter of fact, I thought they could have just put their instruments down and let him do the show solo. Great harp player.

I've got to disagree here. I think that John Popper is a horrible harmonica player! He has no understanding of dynamics, and doesn't understand that a great musician can say a lot with just a few notes. It's no wonder that his band had to "struggle to keep up with him." Popper's playing pales in comparison to people like Toots Thielmann, James Cotton, Charlie Musselwhite, Slim Harpo, or Jim Liban. He may be "leagues ahead of his band", but he sure isn't a great harp player.

I saw Blues Traveler opening for Jonny Lang several years ago, and couldn't wait for their set to end.

Skully · March 16th, 2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

I've got to disagree here. I think that John Popper is a horrible harmonica player! He has no understanding of dynamics, and doesn't understand that a great musician can say a lot with just a few notes.

I was going to write the same thing. Fast and busy does not equal good.

Arhooliegeorge · March 17th, 2006, 06:14 AM

Ditto

The heavy metal approach to harmonica does no

October 14th, 2005, 12:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
Tony Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sacratomato Posts: 890	Great guitarist, less than great band I've been reading the drumming flame posts a bit. I've also been listening again to Danny Gatton, Unfinished Business a lot lately. His drummers and back up band are incredible! Great guitarist, great band(s). Which got me to thinking. Who are some of the great guitarists, past or present, who play or played with not so stellar a back-up band?

October 14th, 2005, 01:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
Smokin' Joe Picante Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 499	Two players who I really like who were in (IMO) pretty marginal bands as far as songwriting goes, are George Lynch (from Dokken), and Warren DeMartini (from Ratt). I owned ALL thier albums but the songs were really the weakest thing on most of them. Dokken being more guilty than Ratt. But, man can those guys play some tasty solo's, and they're both phenomenal rhythm players! Jeff Healey is a guy who I always thought needed to just lose his band. I'm not the biggest fan of his, but he has talent for sure. I saw him live once and watching that band heave itself through "straightened" blues grooves was just horrific. I think he had a loyalty thing going with his rhythm section. Pretty much everyone I talked to after the show agreed the band was nowhere near where he was at, but he's faithfully played with them for years. __________________ http://www.joecurtisband.com/ Overheard at a gig... "The guitar could be louder... I have no idea how, but I'm sure it can be done..." ;)

October 14th, 2005, 05:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
chipl Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 737	I may get flamed for this but... From the live tapes and CDs I've heard by Roy Buchanan, I often felt his backup guys, while competent, sounded like a decent bar band/cover band, while he was a brilliant one of a kind talent. So I'd suggest Roy for this thread.

October 15th, 2005, 12:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
Califiddler Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: California Posts: 947	Django! Django and Stephane were awesome, but that Hot Club rhythm section was pretty muddy. __________________ "In the fiddler's house, all are dancers."

October 15th, 2005, 01:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
Charlie Bernstein Friend of Leo's Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Augusta, Maine Posts: 2,516	bought a brad paisley album on the cheap recently... ...just to find out what he sounded like. first time i ever simultaneously wanted to turn an album up and turn it off. the guitar playing was absolutely stratospheric (telespheric?), but the rest - the band, the lyrics, the tunes, the arrangements, the mixing - were excruciating - nashville at its most over-produced, saccharin-drenched schlockiest. and he looks like the kind of person who spends a lot of time checking the mirror. or at least dressing for the camera. so why is he sitting in a mud puddle? stop me before i start an i-don't-get thread...

October 14th, 2005, 05:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
Essex Boy Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 679	Gatton's band were good but nothing AMAZING. His bass player John Previti was kinda cheesy in both looks and playing style.

October 16th, 2005, 12:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
Paul in Colorado Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fort Collins, CO Age: 55 Posts: 4,318 3 Photos	The Eagles. 8)

October 16th, 2005, 12:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
J-man Moderator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Wales/Scarborough Age: 20 Posts: 6,257 9 Photos	Yngwie Malmsteen, the guy can really shred, but the vocals, the lyrics, and the song writing is so BLOODY AWFUL! __________________ Write a wise saying and your name will live forever. - Unknown "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away." - Tom Waits

March 16th, 2006, 04:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
jmalever TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: MD Posts: 14	John Previti Hello, I don't normally post to these forums, but I was browsing through some posts and just had to respond. I see that one poster claims John Previti both looks corny and has a corny playing style, more or less. I have to say that as someone who sees him play every other week, he is one of the best players I've seen. In any style. He can play everything (jazz, blues, country, rock) with authenticity and feeling. Upright and electric. One of the few who I have seen that can really play both instruments at a jaw dropping-level. Check him out at Chick Hall's Surf Club in Bladensburg in any of you are in the D.C. area. First and third Thursday of each month. There are virtually no crowds, but the music is amazing. FWIW. Jonas

March 16th, 2006, 05:04 PM	#11 (permalink)
Teletwang Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Connecticut Age: 41 Posts: 1,275 1 Photos	Van Halen Edward deserved better, musically, than Alex & Michael. But then again it sure did seem to work. Go figure.

March 16th, 2006, 05:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
Oskar Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northampton, MA Posts: 3,150	Not a guitarist, but... I always thought Jon Popper was leagues ahead of his band. I saw them a couple of times just after they broke big and they struggled to keep up with him. As a matter of fact, I thought they could have just put their instruments down and let him do the show solo. Great harp player.

March 16th, 2006, 05:47 PM	#15 (permalink)
shakedancer Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: north of Boston Posts: 1,634	Good Texan Yeah, you should get flamed for that!! Well, it's only an opinion, so we'll give you a free pass 8) Yes, Family Style was great. I love " Brothers". __________________ "If you don't like the Blues, you got to have a Hole in your Soul." Luther Allison JOE

March 16th, 2006, 05:48 PM	#16 (permalink)
jjh37854 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Francisco Age: 35 Posts: 1,161 7 Photos	Willie Nelson, wow, what a horrible band.

March 16th, 2006, 07:47 PM	#18 (permalink)
Arhooliegeorge Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 128	Janis Joplin's band's were poor imo. I also believe Hendrix was generally ill-served. If only he and Clapton had swapped bands! Guy I find amazing - an acoustic player called Nick Harper (son of Roy). His live solo show is mindblowing but he has recorded album's with bands who were dreadful.

March 16th, 2006, 08:44 PM	#20 (permalink)
kingalingus Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Charleston, SC Age: 41 Posts: 313 7 Photos	The Hellecasters. The root-fifth, root-fifth bass lines, the I IV Vs, the boom-chick, boom-chick drum beats, the keys of E, A & G...They are far too talented to have allowed such boring rhythm tracks. Flame away - but IMHO, I'm right! * I only made it through their first 2 albums.

March 16th, 2006, 09:52 PM	#22 (permalink)
Skully Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Glamorous NoHo Posts: 3,982	Flash guitar players, virtuoso bassists, etc., aren't worth a damn if they're not playing good material in an exciting band. And hot players don't necessarily make a band exciting, especially when it comes to rock and roll. This is why many of the guitar heroes worshipped by some on this and other guitar boards never found more than a small cult audience. Of course, if a guitar player can play fast complicated parts and get good tone from boutique pedals and a high-end amp, he or she doesn't need good songs.

March 17th, 2006, 06:14 AM	#25 (permalink)
Arhooliegeorge Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 128	Ditto The heavy metal approach to harmonica does no