Anyone know a thing about Brass Instruments??

JBandtheSalts · July 26th, 2005, 12:30 PM

where to start? well, okay, a bandmate of mine who primarily plays guitar in the band can play all stringed instruments exceptionally well and can also play woodwinds very well, which is great for recording, because we can get pretty much any sound we want..except for horns...so i figured that maybe i should try and get somewhat efficiant playing a brass instrument. any ideas on what i should look at? i was thinking maybe a trumpet, but i dont know...i want to be able to get a good range of notes and sounds out of it, and i want something thatll just be a good generik horn type sound. i wont be doing any solos or anything, more of an orchestral background type of thing. also, what would be easiest to learn on...thanks guys...-john

chipl · July 26th, 2005, 01:59 PM

(a long long time ago) i recommend a saxophone...it's more useful in most band settings, has a good R&B feel, plus you can play longer sustained single notes to add a a good bottom to the sound. Plus it's a better instrument for solos. The uses for a trumpet are more limited in most band settings/jams that I've been involved in.

stevieboy · July 26th, 2005, 02:44 PM

Brass instruments take a lot of lip training. I wouldn't think they would make a good beginner "second instrument."

popthree · July 26th, 2005, 02:48 PM

if going brass, I'd say go trumpet. I played trumpet for a number of years. Once you have trumpet down, going to the other brass instruments is not particularly difficult. I found I could easily fake it on french horn, and trombone...the main difference being the dip to the bass cleff....and a substantially larger mouthpiece (for the trombone.)

David Barnett · July 26th, 2005, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipl

(a long long time ago) i recommend a saxophone...it's more useful in most band settings, has a good R&B feel, plus you can play longer sustained single notes to add a a good bottom to the sound. Plus it's a better instrument for solos. The uses for a trumpet are more limited in most band settings/jams that I've been involved in.

Saxophone is a woodwind.

chipl · July 26th, 2005, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipl

(a long long time ago) i recommend a saxophone...it's more useful in most band settings, has a good R&B feel, plus you can play longer sustained single notes to add a a good bottom to the sound. Plus it's a better instrument for solos. The uses for a trumpet are more limited in most band settings/jams that I've been involved in.

Saxophone is a woodwind.

Sorry, I'm a guitar player so I missed the reed connection. That technical stuff throws me every time. In every band I ever played in, the sax was part of the horn section. I still maintain that a sax is the brass instrument that I'd want to have in a band...both for solos and rhythm.

ThoughtCriminal · July 26th, 2005, 08:33 PM

Here is something very important about the trumpet... It comes in different keys. There are C Trumpets and B Flat Trumpets.

Now, if you get a C Trumpet there is no problem.

However, if you get a B Flat Trumpet, which most beginner trumpets are, you might run into problems. See, it is always transcribed a whole note higher than it sounds to the ear. When the page says C you are really playing a BFlat.

B Flat is a harmonic of the B Flat Trumpet, that means it is played with no valves pressed. C is a harmonic of the C Trumpet, and its played the same. Now, in order to prevent confusion between the two instruments when sight reading the B Flat trumpet is transcribed in C so that the fingerings for the location of each note on the staff will be the same for both instruments.

Just remember that when you are learning with a B Flat trumpet, lower each note in your lesson book a whole step (from C to B Flat, the instrument's harmonic). And lower each scale a whole step too. That way, you'll be able to communicate with your bandmates.

Or just get a C Trumpet and learn with that.

Chris S. · July 26th, 2005, 11:25 PM

... age 21, practiced enough to get really bad at it.

Then I switched to sax (alto), and became equally "adept" at that.

I'd agree that the sax probably has more application(s) in contemporary music, but they're both cool instruments that offer possibilities for doubling on other related instruments.

But be aware that either one will take you some time to develop your embouchure, a fancy term that refers to getting the muscles of your mouth and lips used to making the right noises. Either one is harder and takes longer than getting your fingers used to playing guitar, so plan on spending a fair amount of time practicing before you're ready to really play much of anything (other than rude noises) in a band context. Oh, and you'll want a place to practice where you won't disturb anyone, or else very patient housemates/spouse, etc. Beginners' practice sessions can sometimes sound a lot like you're torturing an unfortunate animal.

As far as which one to choose, as I said, I think they're both cool, just different. They'll both help you appreciate the importance of playing melody, and how chords work as vertically-related structures. And transposing was really no big deal, it's just part of learning the instrument. All IMO, of course. 8) Have at it, and have fun. – CS

ThoughtCriminal · July 27th, 2005, 12:13 AM

Put your mouthpiece to your mouth and blow. Blow for a second or two and then remove the mouthpiece from your mouth while you are still blowing. If the passing of air past your lips is silent, that's good.

Try to do scales using only your mouthpiece. That's a great excercise.

First (and only) time I played trumpet in a rock band the lead guitarist would make fun of us (me and the trombonist) because "we can only play one note at a time"
It's actually a fairly demanding instrument to play!

It's been awhile since I've played. I dropped it a couple years ago, but now I'm tempted to pick it up again and practice when my fingers get tired from telewhacking. There's a roots reggae band starting up near hear and they might need a cool guy who can play the trumpet!

David Barnett · July 27th, 2005, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoughtCriminal

However, if you get a B Flat Trumpet, which most beginner trumpets are, you might run into problems. See, it is always transcribed a whole note higher than it sounds to the ear. When the page says C you are really playing a BFlat.

At least with a B flat trumpet he'll be in the same boat with the tenor sax player.

David Barnett · July 27th, 2005, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipl

Sorry, I'm a guitar player so I missed the reed connection. That technical stuff throws me every time. In every band I ever played in, the sax was part of the horn section. I still maintain that a sax is the brass instrument that I'd want to have in a band...both for solos and rhythm.

But, you see, in the context of this discussion, there's already a woodwind player in the band, which means that the sax part is already covered. Our intrepid student wishes to find another wind instrument to complement the sax, so that they can form a complete horn section. In that context, the trumpet seems the obvious choice. Trumpet and sax sound very good together, as the Brecker Brothers have demonstrated over the years.

Dust my Broom · July 27th, 2005, 02:09 AM

i played trombone for a while when i was younger. i was in honor band for 3 years. i didnt like it much because i didn't realize i could use it for something. i mean i got my kicks with it here and there. anyway, it's a cool instrument with good tone and good range. and you can pull off some nice sh#$ with it.

also, consider the size of your lips. different sized lips are better suited to certain instruments naturally.

July 26th, 2005, 12:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
JBandtheSalts Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 510	Anyone know a thing about Brass Instruments?? where to start? well, okay, a bandmate of mine who primarily plays guitar in the band can play all stringed instruments exceptionally well and can also play woodwinds very well, which is great for recording, because we can get pretty much any sound we want..except for horns...so i figured that maybe i should try and get somewhat efficiant playing a brass instrument. any ideas on what i should look at? i was thinking maybe a trumpet, but i dont know...i want to be able to get a good range of notes and sounds out of it, and i want something thatll just be a good generik horn type sound. i wont be doing any solos or anything, more of an orchestral background type of thing. also, what would be easiest to learn on...thanks guys...-john

July 26th, 2005, 01:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
chipl Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 733	As a former trumpet player (a long long time ago) i recommend a saxophone...it's more useful in most band settings, has a good R&B feel, plus you can play longer sustained single notes to add a a good bottom to the sound. Plus it's a better instrument for solos. The uses for a trumpet are more limited in most band settings/jams that I've been involved in.

July 26th, 2005, 02:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
stevieboy Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: the valley Posts: 2,284 6 Photos	Brass instruments take a lot of lip training. I wouldn't think they would make a good beginner "second instrument." __________________ "One of the best bands ever. These guys were such perfectionist"--Youtube user comment

July 26th, 2005, 02:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
popthree Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tulsa Age: 43 Posts: 2,682 44 Photos	if going brass, I'd say go trumpet. I played trumpet for a number of years. Once you have trumpet down, going to the other brass instruments is not particularly difficult. I found I could easily fake it on french horn, and trombone...the main difference being the dip to the bass cleff....and a substantially larger mouthpiece (for the trombone.) __________________ don't taze me bro !

July 26th, 2005, 08:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
ThoughtCriminal Banned TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 84	The issue with trumpet... Here is something very important about the trumpet... It comes in different keys. There are C Trumpets and B Flat Trumpets. Now, if you get a C Trumpet there is no problem. However, if you get a B Flat Trumpet, which most beginner trumpets are, you might run into problems. See, it is always transcribed a whole note higher than it sounds to the ear. When the page says C you are really playing a BFlat. B Flat is a harmonic of the B Flat Trumpet, that means it is played with no valves pressed. C is a harmonic of the C Trumpet, and its played the same. Now, in order to prevent confusion between the two instruments when sight reading the B Flat trumpet is transcribed in C so that the fingerings for the location of each note on the staff will be the same for both instruments. Just remember that when you are learning with a B Flat trumpet, lower each note in your lesson book a whole step (from C to B Flat, the instrument's harmonic). And lower each scale a whole step too. That way, you'll be able to communicate with your bandmates. Or just get a C Trumpet and learn with that.

July 26th, 2005, 11:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
Chris S. Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Near TELE-Town (Wash. DC) Posts: 2,835 7 Photos	I took up trumpet as an adult ... age 21, practiced enough to get really bad at it. Then I switched to sax (alto), and became equally "adept" at that. I'd agree that the sax probably has more application(s) in contemporary music, but they're both cool instruments that offer possibilities for doubling on other related instruments. But be aware that either one will take you some time to develop your embouchure, a fancy term that refers to getting the muscles of your mouth and lips used to making the right noises. Either one is harder and takes longer than getting your fingers used to playing guitar, so plan on spending a fair amount of time practicing before you're ready to really play much of anything (other than rude noises) in a band context. Oh, and you'll want a place to practice where you won't disturb anyone, or else very patient housemates/spouse, etc. Beginners' practice sessions can sometimes sound a lot like you're torturing an unfortunate animal. As far as which one to choose, as I said, I think they're both cool, just different. They'll both help you appreciate the importance of playing melody, and how chords work as vertically-related structures. And transposing was really no big deal, it's just part of learning the instrument. All IMO, of course. 8) Have at it, and have fun. – CS __________________ "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's depressing." – Tara, from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" "It was born at the junction of form and function." – Bill Kirchen, from "Hammer of the Honky-Tonk Gods"

July 27th, 2005, 12:13 AM	#9 (permalink)
ThoughtCriminal Banned TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 84	good embouchure Put your mouthpiece to your mouth and blow. Blow for a second or two and then remove the mouthpiece from your mouth while you are still blowing. If the passing of air past your lips is silent, that's good. Try to do scales using only your mouthpiece. That's a great excercise. First (and only) time I played trumpet in a rock band the lead guitarist would make fun of us (me and the trombonist) because "we can only play one note at a time" It's actually a fairly demanding instrument to play! It's been awhile since I've played. I dropped it a couple years ago, but now I'm tempted to pick it up again and practice when my fingers get tired from telewhacking. There's a roots reggae band starting up near hear and they might need a cool guy who can play the trumpet!

July 27th, 2005, 02:09 AM	#12 (permalink)
Dust my Broom Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 160	i played trombone for a while when i was younger. i was in honor band for 3 years. i didnt like it much because i didn't realize i could use it for something. i mean i got my kicks with it here and there. anyway, it's a cool instrument with good tone and good range. and you can pull off some nice sh#$ with it. also, consider the size of your lips. different sized lips are better suited to certain instruments naturally. __________________ "We just played that..........didn't we?"