Food for Thought (Cost of Gear)

[Ryan0594]

A post I made on another thread give me the idea for this one. I'm gonna post the cost of my guitar rig (if bought new today) and match it up against a higher end alternative. I'm doing this to demonstrate the cost of "quality" and "tone", two things which are completely subjective to the individual, where as "price" and "functionality" are completely quantifiable measures of a guitar rig.

Lets start with my very own guitar rig, as assembled in 2010:
Guitars: Fender MiM Telecaster & Epiphone Dot
Price: £391.99 + £299.99 = £691.98


Amp: Vox VT20 Plus Combo Amp*
Price: £129.99

Total cost for my rig: £821.97 -- now lets move onto the higher end version of this rig.

Guitars: Fender MiA Telecaster & Gibson ES-355**
Price: £899.99*** + £2,099.00 = £2,998.99

Amp: Vox AC15C1****
Price: £475.00

So the total cost of the "better" rig is: £3,473.99
HOWEVER, that's still missing all of the inbuilt EFX the first amp had. If you added on some reasonable quality pedals you'd be looking at another £1,000 easily.

Conclusion?
I don't mean to be obnoxious or insulting to anyone who chooses to spend their money on expensive stuff -- heck, if I had loads of money I'm sure I'd buy the second rig just for the sake of it -- alls that I'm trying to demonstrate is that the cost difference between to very comparable rigs is a lot higher on paper once you've added everything up.

*My amp is the inferior 2010 VT which is 15 watts, however, this is equivalent in today's market and is the same price mine was.
** I picked the cheapest one with Gibson on the headstock, actual model is called "Gibson ES335 Dot Electric Guitar - Plain Cherry" if that means anything to you.
*** Reduced from £974.99 - it's your lucky day!
**** I chose this because it's the cheapest Vox that is 15 watt and fully a "tube amp".
Note: I've cited prices from Dawsons' website or the next best UK high-street seller in all instances (unless otherwise stated).

[waparker4]

Thoughts:

1. There are steps in between the Epiphone and the Gibson in price from other manufacturers
2. 1000 pounds on pedals is a lot! Wow! I can get by with a tuner ($99), a delay ($120) and some OD clones (cheap!).. maybe a phaser/chorus, compressor... all still comes easily under 400 pounds
3. If you just upgraded the amp that would make the biggest difference. IMO the limitation of the cheaper guitars is getting them to perform reliably. If you can do your own set ups and don't have a lemon to start with you can get your cheaper guitars in the territory of the more expensive peers for little $ with some carefully selected upgrades. If you are a slave to the booteik pickups rather than using your ears-brain-fingers circuitry, you can easily go overboard in price.

[benderb9]

Epiphone EL-00 236.00 (used) @ MF. nut/bridge/endpins Graph Tech 35.00 (Amazon), piezo system by JJB Electronics 49.99, Fender Excelsior 299.00, new tubes 60.00, Fishman plantinum pre-amp 136.00. Levy's strap 26.00= 841.00. I could substitute any number of electric guitars I have for + or - 75.00-100 and substitute the Fishman for a decent compressor and call it even, add a Boss FRV1 pedal for another 120.00 and what else would I need? Nada, in fact this acoustic box I have started playing has re-opened my eyes to guitar all over again. It's almost like falling in love one 'mo time

[harmonicon]

I think your reasoning is faulty, Ryan.

I can't state this enough: one good sound is better than 500 not-as-good sounds. One better guitar is going to sound better than two worse guitars. One really nice valve amp without effects is going to sound better than some modeling amp with a million effects.

That said, gear (well, my guitar gear - I did pay £1,200 for a bass last year) is quite cheap:
Epiphone Sheraton II that I bought for $350 from a friend
A no-name 2x12 prototype valve combo I got (granted a great deal) for £110

I do just fine with it. I have zero interest in adding another guitar or amp, but I'd be more than happy to replace my guitar or amp with something better.

[greggorypeccary]

The guitars might be close, but I wouldn't consider the amps to be "very comparable".

But quality and tone are part of the functionality to the player using the gear. I could find "boutique" examples of your rig that could be double the cost of your higher priced rig, but so what?

Why do people here have to always compare their inexpensive gear with more expensive stuff? Is it some sort of snobbery, or feeling superior to the fools who paid more for the "same" guitar, or what?

BTW - I like my Gibson SG, MIA 52RI, and my MIM 70's Strat, but YMMV.


If you want a real eye opener, look at what horn players pay for professional quality instruments, they can make a $2000 guitar look cheap.

[JayFreddy]

To add insult to injury, many established touring artists don't even pay for their gear. It's given to them and written off as an advertising expense. In many instances, it's actually "loaned" to the band/artist, which gives the underwriting company/investors a juicier amortization schedule...

If life was fair, I'd give the good gear to people who can't afford to buy it otherwise.

Yup, and if I was rich, I'd invest in children's hospitals and schools...

Just kidding!

Nope. I'd probably buy yachts, private jets, and sports cars just like all the other rich bast*rds...

(It's a mad world)

[idjster]

My equipment is quite inexpensive, in fact pretty much everything was bought used or on sale. My main guitar isn't though. It's cheap for a Gibson (its a 2011 Les Paul Traditional 1960 Zebra in satin honeyburst) at about $1600 Canadian $ on sale, but not a cheap guitar. I had been looking at other Gibsons for a long time, but when I tried this one both the sound and the 1960 slim neck sold me.

Can I hear the difference from my other less expensive guitars? Well, except for one, yes. And that's what sold me on it. (I didn't have that one other guitar yet, so it sounded better through my amps than any of my guitars.)

Would I buy another? No, not if I still have this one.

I can't compare my less expensive guitars to it because it is just far too higher in quality, both in manufacture and in sound.

I, too, revel in my good luck in finding good deals that sound great. None-the-less, I don't try to compare them to the higher quality equipment 'cus so far there's no comparison.

Just my $0.02.

[51Nocast]

Such insecurity. Quit looking over the fence at your neighbors if it bothers you, just play in you're own yard and be good with it.

I drive a Mini Cooper, I drool every time a Porsche goes past me. I don't hunt the guy down to justify why I drive a Mini Cooper.

Geesh.

Oh, I just noticed you're 18. A much different perspective I guess. Have at it.

[kelnet]

Originally Posted by Ryan0594

A post I made on another thread give me the idea for this one. I'm gonna post the cost of my guitar rig (if bought new today) and match it up against a higher end alternative. I'm doing this to demonstrate the cost of "quality" and "tone", two things which are completely subjective to the individual, where as "price" and "functionality" are completely quantifiable measures of a guitar rig.

Lets start with my very own guitar rig, as assembled in 2010:
Guitars: Fender MiM Telecaster & Epiphone Dot
Price: £391.99 + £299.99 = £691.98


Amp: Vox VT20 Plus Combo Amp*
Price: £129.99

Total cost for my rig: £821.97 -- now lets move onto the higher end version of this rig.

Guitars: Fender MiA Telecaster & Gibson ES-355**
Price: £899.99*** + £2,099.00 = £2,998.99

Amp: Vox AC15C1****
Price: £475.00

So the total cost of the "better" rig is: £3,473.99
HOWEVER, that's still missing all of the inbuilt EFX the first amp had. If you added on some reasonable quality pedals you'd be looking at another £1,000 easily.

Conclusion?
I don't mean to be obnoxious or insulting to anyone who chooses to spend their money on expensive stuff -- heck, if I had loads of money I'm sure I'd buy the second rig just for the sake of it -- alls that I'm trying to demonstrate is that the cost difference between to very comparable rigs is a lot higher on paper once you've added everything up.

*My amp is the inferior 2010 VT which is 15 watts, however, this is equivalent in today's market and is the same price mine was.
** I picked the cheapest one with Gibson on the headstock, actual model is called "Gibson ES335 Dot Electric Guitar - Plain Cherry" if that means anything to you.
*** Reduced from £974.99 - it's your lucky day!
**** I chose this because it's the cheapest Vox that is 15 watt and fully a "tube amp".
Note: I've cited prices from Dawsons' website or the next best UK high-street seller in all instances (unless otherwise stated).

And all of this research leads to the question: Yeah, so?

[stnmtthw]

Part of it, I think, is trying to justify your gear to the wieners that show up to every gig and ask why you didn't buy a "real" (meaning MIA) Tele or Gibson or whatever. When I was younger, it bothered me too. Nowadays, I ask what they have. When they tell me, I shrug and say, just goes to show, you can't buy talent. Whether they walk away or get pissed, either way, you have effectively shut them down...

This isn't aimed at people who buy high end gear, by the way. If I didn't have mouths to feed, I probably would too. Its aimed at people who try to make themselves feel better by putting other people down for their gear.

And to the OP: if it makes you feel better, great. But if you sound good, you don't have to justify your spending to anyone.

[waparker4]

Originally Posted by stnmtthw

Part of it, I think, is trying to justify your gear to the wieners that show up to every gig and ask why you didn't buy a "real" (meaning MIA) Tele or Gibson or whatever. When I was younger, it bothered me too. Nowadays, I ask what they have. When they tell me, I shrug and say, just goes to show, you can't buy talent. Whether they walk away or get pissed, either way, you have effectively shut them down...

This isn't aimed at people who buy high end gear, by the way. If I didn't have mouths to feed, I probably would too. Its aimed at people who try to make themselves feel better by putting other people down for their gear.

And to the OP: if it makes you feel better, great. But if you sound good, you don't have to justify your spending to anyone.

I'm gonna have to file that line away in mind! Great!

[51Nocast]

You can't go through life worrying about what others say about your clothes, your house, your car, your guitar or anything else. Someone who feels the need to insult you in that way is showing the issues they have not the one's you have.

But we all already know this don't we ?

[colorado]

I have only one question. Since you are eighteen, is your gear getting you laid? If yes, it is good gear. If no, maybe you need new clothes and a better haircut.

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by Ryan0594

A post I made on another thread give me the idea for this one. I'm gonna post the cost of my guitar rig (if bought new today) and match it up against a higher end alternative. I'm doing this to demonstrate the cost of "quality" and "tone", two things which are completely subjective to the individual, where as "price" and "functionality" are completely quantifiable measures of a guitar rig.

Lets start with my very own guitar rig, as assembled in 2010:
Guitars: Fender MiM Telecaster & Epiphone Dot
Price: £391.99 + £299.99 = £691.98


Amp: Vox VT20 Plus Combo Amp*
Price: £129.99

Total cost for my rig: £821.97 -- now lets move onto the higher end version of this rig.

Guitars: Fender MiA Telecaster & Gibson ES-355**
Price: £899.99*** + £2,099.00 = £2,998.99

Amp: Vox AC15C1****
Price: £475.00

So the total cost of the "better" rig is: £3,473.99
HOWEVER, that's still missing all of the inbuilt EFX the first amp had. If you added on some reasonable quality pedals you'd be looking at another £1,000 easily.

Conclusion?
I don't mean to be obnoxious or insulting to anyone who chooses to spend their money on expensive stuff -- heck, if I had loads of money I'm sure I'd buy the second rig just for the sake of it -- alls that I'm trying to demonstrate is that the cost difference between to very comparable rigs is a lot higher on paper once you've added everything up.

*My amp is the inferior 2010 VT which is 15 watts, however, this is equivalent in today's market and is the same price mine was.
** I picked the cheapest one with Gibson on the headstock, actual model is called "Gibson ES335 Dot Electric Guitar - Plain Cherry" if that means anything to you.
*** Reduced from £974.99 - it's your lucky day!
**** I chose this because it's the cheapest Vox that is 15 watt and fully a "tube amp".
Note: I've cited prices from Dawsons' website or the next best UK high-street seller in all instances (unless otherwise stated).

Your comparison would be a fair one, except that these two rigs are really in no way remotely comparable. Except for the fact that they look pretty similar, you're really comparing apples to oranges. Gig, write, record, both those rigs for five or more nights a week for about ten or fifteen years apiece, and then tell me how comparable you think they really are. They really aren't. Just sayin'.

A better idea might be to show how little you can spend and get a decent rig for home use, jamming with buddies, or small club/pub gigs. Your rig is a GREAT example of how you can have a ton of fun on a tight budget.

Not saying that what you have is not a nice rig, quite the opposite, it's plenty fine for making music. But to allude that it may be closely comparable to the other rig is not realistic.

[oramac7891]

Buy what you can/are willing to purchase. Some people buy more expensive gear because they need a great guitar that won't breakdown while gigging. I don't care what others have, I buy what I like.

[bossking7]

Just buy used

[?????]

:) Schecter C-1 Custom and a Bastard Strat through a Deville 4-10. And a pile of NON-true bypass Boss pedals. Original Crybaby, and a Fender Classic Volume. As a matter of fact I am making a PB for it all right now. Will be buying the looper in a few days. If ya wanna talk money:

Schecter was $700
Bastard Strat $900
Deville (2003) $950
FX Pedals $1200
Chords $200
Pedal Board(DIY) $350 (after labor, I'd say around a grand, but I don't charge myself for labor)

So, about $3,000... But, unlike most folks, it's all paid for itself several times over and then some.

The strat WAS American. I repainted it. I hate Maroon. I wanted antique white. So, after painting it beautifully, the case crap stuck to it. New body!!! I bought a Bullet Strat and used that body. It still sounds great. You can argue all you want, but I know my stuff. It has Tex Mex mid and bridge with a Tele bridge bucker in the neck. All the pups have been installed upside down. They are raised as high as possible without getting string buzz when going ape poo crazy at gigs. The Schecter was a recent RELUCTANT addition. I've needed an HB guitar for some years now, but held on to that, "I'm from TX, we all play strats or we aren't worth nothin..." After 3 months, I may never buy another Fender guitar. And, I'm selling the strat to a friends son, so he can perpetuate the TX Strat Madness for another generation. It's not a bad axe. It's just not versatile enough

[voided3]

It feels good to have a rig that is so cheap yet completely functional/allows the full range of your expression. It also feels good to have a rig that was an investment you find thanking yourself for buying after every gig. There is no shame in either approach.

I'll give a personal example of both. I play a lot of slide guitar and inexpensive guitars are awesome for this. I have a few cheap Strats I modified for open tunings, high action, and very heavy string gauges that absolutely sing for slide guitar. One of them even came out of the trash (the Trashcaster, I call it). A few bucks on pots, jacks, and Gotoh tuners and they are good to go. My main amp is a Roland Cube 80XL I bought used in mint condition for $200. The amp does everything I need an amp to do and more than I expect an amp to do, all while sounding excellent and weighing only 35 lbs. So if I were to list my rig for playing slide guitar gigs, one example would be my Trashcaster which only cost me a $25 pickguard to put together (besides strings) plugged straight into my $200 Cube which equals $225.

Now, I also own a Taylor 214ce that was about $1000 new. It was a big investment for me to buy this while going to college, but I have never regretted it. It works great live D.I. through a PA, all of the recording engineers I have worked with at sessions say it sounds fantastic mic'd up, and it's laminate + bolt on neck construction means it's durable, too. If the frets get completely worn, I'll use it for slide until it's a pile of wood chips! (That said, I baby it and it doesn't have a mark on it despite frequent use)

Play what makes you happy. My Trashcaster and other sub-$100/free slide guitars do, my $400 MIM Strat does, my $1000 Taylor does, and so do the rest of my guitars and basses.

[taxer]

First rule for people who collect things:
NEVER DO THE MATH

Any collector who buys books, DVDs, classic cars, guitars, guitar gear, whatever knows you never do the math. If you do the math your head will spin and your heart will break. Nothing but bad comes from doing the math.

Just save up, buy the stuff you really want, and never do the math.

[Ed P]

Originally Posted by taxer

First rule for people who collect things:
NEVER DO THE MATH

Any collector who buys books, DVDs, classic cars, guitars, guitar gear, whatever knows you never do the math. If you do the math your head will spin and your heart will break. Nothing but bad comes from doing the math.

Just save up, buy the stuff you really want, and never do the math.

I like this! Way to go.