Owning high end gear

[kelnet]

Originally Posted by Justinvs

Most of my life I played Ibanez, Epi and Brand X because I couldn't/can't afford the real thing.

An Ibanez is a real guitar. So is an Epiphone.

[Ryan0594]

I honestly don't think that I want any "high-end gear", my "low-end gear" does everything I want it to.

I have two main guitars: a MiM Telecaster and an Epiphone Dot - the combined price of these coming in at less than £700, which is half the cost of a lot of these so called "high-end guitars". Nevertheless, they both play and sound great. They cover all types of tones, even if it means being a bit creative and messing with alt. tunings, capos, tone controls, and pup heights.

Then I move on to my amp - oh my God! A £120 Vox VT15 that does anything from Hendrix to Johnny Marr to George Harrison and so on! It's got loads of amp models and loads of effects pedals! I mean loads - compression, delay, echo, pitch, tremolo, rotary, chorus, etc. and they all sound great.

The only other pedals I've bought is a Danelectro Overdrive and Chrous both £20. Oh, and I got given a cheap Big Muff.

So, the total price of my kit is about £860 (minus a few capos and straps) and it does everything I want or need it to.

Lets not forget - if I got a Gibson ES-355 and a MIA Telecaster with a proper Vox AC15 and all the inbuilt effects mine has I'd be looking at well over £5,000 for something that wouldn't actually sound any better on a record or in a bar.

[51Nocast]

I think the part of the picture most people don't grasp is that if you can afford an instrument that you appreciate and buy it at a fair price it will more than likely maintain at least most of it's value in resale.

If you buy a used Fender 52 RI like I did at $800.00 and you play it and enjoy it for say 5 years and then sell it for $700.00 you enjoyed a great guitar for $20.00 a year. That seems to be a very reasonable expense.

So you have whatever sum of money for the initial investment and you buy a proven market valued guitar, the initial investment is just that, an investment not a loss.

[Justinvs]

Originally Posted by kelnet

An Ibanez is a real guitar. So is an Epiphone.

My Ibanez is one of the early RoadStars, and actually a very playable guitar, though not top of the line by any means. I think it was the cheapest or next-to model at the time. Came down to a choice between it or a '72 Strat, but the Fender had a really clunky neck and cost a hundred dollars more so I went with the Ibanez.

My Epi is the absolute cheapest model SG they make. 120.00 brand new from MF. I bought it as a back-up guitar, but it is a pretty decent little ax. The switches and pots aren't great, but it has the hottest pickups of any guitar I own.

[Mid Life Crisis]

Originally Posted by Ryan0594

I honestly don't think that I want any "high-end gear", my "low-end gear" does everything I want it to.

I have two main guitars: a MiM Telecaster and an Epiphone Dot - the combined price of these coming in at less than £700, which is half the cost of a lot of these so called "high-end guitars". Nevertheless, they both play and sound great. They cover all types of tones, even if it means being a bit creative and messing with alt. tunings, capos, tone controls, and pup heights.

Then I move on to my amp - oh my God! A £120 Vox VT15 that does anything from Hendrix to Johnny Marr to George Harrison and so on! It's got loads of amp models and loads of effects pedals! I mean loads - compression, delay, echo, pitch, tremolo, rotary, chorus, etc. and they all sound great.

The only other pedals I've bought is a Danelectro Overdrive and Chrous both £20. Oh, and I got given a cheap Big Muff.

So, the total price of my kit is about £860 (minus a few capos and straps) and it does everything I want or need it to.

Lets not forget - if I got a Gibson ES-355 and a MIA Telecaster with a proper Vox AC15 and all the inbuilt effects mine has I'd be looking at well over £5,000 for something that wouldn't actually sound any better on a record or in a bar.

Good for you Ryan. But, I see you are 18. Give it a few years, your time freed up once all your studies are behind you and a healthy level of disposable income, and you'll be just like the rest of us, lusting after Custom Shop Nocasters and ES-335s. Mark my words!

[greggorypeccary]

Originally Posted by 51Nocast

The people who play inexpensive guitars seem to really be uncomfortable with that because they always are trying to justify or defend it. Why ?

I think there are more posts about people who play inexpensive guitars having an issue with those who play expensive than those who play expensive guitars concerned with those who play inexpensive.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally Posted by Mid Life Crisis

Good for you Ryan. But, I see you are 18. Give it a few years, your time freed up once all your studies are behind you and a healthy level of disposable income, and you'll be just like the rest of us, lusting after Custom Shop Nocasters and ES-335s. Mark my words!

Yes - that will happen!

[kelnet]

Originally Posted by Justinvs

My Ibanez is one of the early RoadStars, and actually a very playable guitar, though not top of the line by any means. I think it was the cheapest or next-to model at the time. Came down to a choice between it or a '72 Strat, but the Fender had a really clunky neck and cost a hundred dollars more so I went with the Ibanez.

My Epi is the absolute cheapest model SG they make. 120.00 brand new from MF. I bought it as a back-up guitar, but it is a pretty decent little ax. The switches and pots aren't great, but it has the hottest pickups of any guitar I own.

And yet you said they weren't "real." What did you mean by that?

[Warm Gums]

Originally Posted by 51Nocast

I think the part of the picture most people don't grasp is that if you can afford an instrument that you appreciate and buy it at a fair price it will more than likely maintain at least most of it's value in resale.

If you buy a used Fender 52 RI like I did at $800.00 and you play it and enjoy it for say 5 years and then sell it for $700.00 you enjoyed a great guitar for $20.00 a year. That seems to be a very reasonable expense.

So you have whatever sum of money for the initial investment and you buy a proven market valued guitar, the initial investment is just that, an investment not a loss.

This is one of the things that I figured after "doing the numbers" how ever I find that if you buy US, (and some other instruments) well you should never take a loss.
I paid $1k for my 52 a few months ago , I have three people who want first refusal, if I sell at that price, in a few years if MAP continues to rise I should be able to sell at a small profit, if I desire.
You need to buy offshore gear VERY inexpensively, to have that happen, obviously if you buy anything new, you will need to wait many years, avoid a loss .
Buying quality high end items used and holding on to them for years is a old money trick that anyone can use to build wealth...everyone who thinks they " cant save money" or afford nice things should read the " millionaire next door, " it will change how you perceive wealth.

Not to say well made gear at any price is not worthwhile, if you wish to spread your resources, as I did for many years, and enjoy multiple hobbies or build a collection on a budget , try a new instrument, whatever, inexpensive gear is a great deal.
I simply decided to reallocate resources, and take a new direction, no right answer, as with most things it's what works for you now, and as things change( up or down) you can always reevaluate, and set a new course.

[Big John]

Hmmmm, does anyone really buy a guitar 'sensibly' with resale, cost of ownership and such in mind ?
Don't we see it, try it, buy it and eventually maybe sell at a loss ?
I reckon the fun is in playing them ! :)

[Warm Gums]

Originally Posted by Big John

Hmmmm, does anyone really buy a guitar 'sensibly' with resale, cost of ownership and such in mind ?
Don't we see it, try it, buy it and eventually maybe sell at a loss ?
I reckon the fun is in playing them ! :)

This is exactly the mind set that the book I recommend deals with..
Yes the fun is in playing them, but wise money management is necessary in any purchase, especially when you are dealing with the amount of money involved with buying a US made Fender, Gibson etc.

By practicing delayed gratification, keeping your house and car modest, always buying EVERYTHING POSSIBLE used ( or on deep clearance) educating yourself on instruments and other collectibles you DON't want and having a good flipping/ trading net work to get them making $$ for you can have some great guitars for little or no money.

" pay yourself modestly, invest the rest wisely ( I' m investing in US guitars) and have your toys for free"

To my mind a loss is unacceptable, sometimes you need to break even to free up cash, but if you find yourself constantly taking a loss, you are not buying right.

Is it work? sure, but most things worth having require a bit of work, still nothing like working a real job.
Is it embarrassing ? only if you care what others think , I buy all my clothes, watches, cameras etc. used at thrift stores..none of my "rich" friends seem to realize that they do all the seed work for my lifestyle.
The money I save by buying last years $75 shirt for $5 goes along way towards putting a nice guitar in my hand, even if it is only for a bit.

[daveandshelle]

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.. That right, right ??

[Justinvs]

Originally Posted by kelnet

And yet you said they weren't "real." What did you mean by that?

Simple. By any standard they are inexpensive, or in the case of the Ibanez RS, moderately priced instruments. While I like the guitars, they aren't something that would make a serious guitar player look twice. They worked fine for me, so I could care less. Except for the one time this one-armed dude (claims to Bob Seger's ex-guitarist) walked up to a stage I was on, looks at my Epi and sneers, "Nice little ax."

"Gets me where I need to go," I said, although my fist thought was far more direct!

[Big John]

Originally Posted by Warm Gums

To my mind a loss is unacceptable, sometimes you need to break even to free up cash, but if you find yourself constantly taking a loss, you are not buying right.
.

Hmmmmmmm, to me, if you are talking 'day to day' guitar playing, amp, picks, strings and instrument buying I would call it 'inevitable' :)

More power to you and the book Warm Gums.

[fezz parka]

Originally Posted by Big John

Hmmmm, does anyone really buy a guitar 'sensibly' with resale, cost of ownership and such in mind ?
Don't we see it, try it, buy it and eventually maybe sell at a loss ?
I reckon the fun is in playing them ! :)

The fun is in playing them.

[kelnet]

Originally Posted by Warm Gums

To my mind a loss is unacceptable, sometimes you need to break even to free up cash, but if you find yourself constantly taking a loss, you are not buying right.

Do you take a loss on clothes? Shoes? Furniture? Toiletries?

Some things are just meant to be used until they are worn out or renewed in some way. If you are always worried about resale value, you'll never get the full value out of the things you buy. I don't want to worry about owning my guitar too long. If I wear out the frets, I'll just pay for a fret job. If things need replacing, I'll replace them. I just want to play the thing for as long as I enjoy playing it.

[51Nocast]

I don't see it as worrying, just using common sense. Knowing the value of an item is a good starting point in any purchase. I don't put a guitar or bass in the same category as clothing or furniture. You might take a slight loss but not a beating.

Not saying that's right or wrong. I think most players will own several guitars over the course of their lifetime and most enjoy trying out different ones. Some find the "one" and still want others to try out. I think the dialogs in the guitar forums clearly prove that.

[television]

My two cents.

I am at a time in my life where I have disposable income to buy high end guitars. I have always wanted a gibson es-335 with block inlays. I found a used one in caramel burst vos finish and I bought it (for about $2600). I'm not that great of a player...but I really wanted this guitar...because it is really cool...and, frankly, it does play and sound and feel great. But i really didn't buy it based on snobbery or b/c I think high end gear is "better"...I bought it b/c I could, b/c it is such a cool guitar, and b/c I've really wanted a gibson 335 (i love 10 years after, larry carlton, clapton, etc).

With that said, I am mostly a tele guy. My favorite tele is a 1994 Hamer T-51 which I bought used for $600 at a guitar show at a Holiday Inn. I love the T-51.

I have had lots of teles made in mexico (i'm not wild about the standards b/c the necks always feel unfinished to me)...but I love the baja, the classic 50s and classic 60s teles, and the 69 thinline.

I'm not wild about the squier classic vibes...but mostly b/c of what seem to me to be very skinny necks...otherwise I am very impressed by the quality of the classic vibes...especially at that price point. I did buy a classic vibe strat and I really like it (the neck seems to feel a bit bigger than normal...but maybe I am just imagining that).

I guess my point is that lots of us buy low end, middle of the road, and high end guitars (whatever those definitions really mean) for reasons other than snobbery (and I'm talking both ends of the snobbery equation, i.e. "my high end guitars are the best and low end stuff stinks" and "my cvc is as good as any $3,000 cork-sniffing custom shop guitar"). I just like guitars...and I am willing to pay for a guitar I like based on lots of considerations...the most common ones being I like the way it plays, the way it sounds, the way it feels, the way it looks, and, yes, sometimes whether it has a "cool" factor...but I certainly don't like being automatically presumed to be a snob by simply buying a low end or high end guitar.

[Warm Gums]

Originally Posted by kelnet

Do you take a loss on clothes? Shoes? Furniture? Toiletries?

Some things are just meant to be used until they are worn out or renewed in some way. If you are always worried about resale value, you'll never get the full value out of the things you buy. I don't want to worry about owning my guitar too long. If I wear out the frets, I'll just pay for a fret job. If things need replacing, I'll replace them. I just want to play the thing for as long as I enjoy playing it.

Those are consumables, ( a basic concept in any economic theory ) and don't figure directly into what I'm saying.
And there is nothing wrong with keeping a guitar in good repair , I'm not talking about a vintage instrument that every wrong set uo or touched up joint will cost you serious coin..
I'm talking about going out and paying say $500 for a new MIM and a year later selling it for $350 to upgrade to a 60s Ri for $650 and then selling that for $500 a year later to buy a 52 thus taking a $300 hit. When with a little looking you could have bought a used 52 up front for a grand ( perhaps starting with a inexpensive used Squier that you donate to a charity when no longer needed, and write of when you get what you are looking forf..) and you own a asset that will at least hold value.

"But I don't have 1k"....and $300 isnt a big deal" well of course not, you are paying full price for shoes, furniture, tolitres, because they are consumables, and $300 is $300 I can do a lot with $300. The list could fill a small book.

No they are not investments( furniture can be, my studio chairs are vintage art deco pieces I got for $5 at a rummage sale, and are probably worth as much as any of my guitars...no old money person has new furniture, they haunt consignment shops, borrow from relatives, and reuse, recycle and recover.) but that is where you get(save) your 1k. Be a Aqua Velva Man lol. The day Dollar Tree moved in next to GC was one of the great days of my life. Like I said this isn't for every one, but I own my own business, set my own hours, have really nice things, and the time to enjoy them.
What I don't have is a new car, big house, fancy electronics, new clothes, and department store toiletries...
Like any thing else you pays your money and you take your choice...but how much irreplaceable time is the average person burning to fund convenience ?

[Drubbing]

The only way to lose money on a guitar is either paying too much or selling too soon, or both. In some cases both may be unavoidable, but if you know you're going to do that, then you can decide beforehand whether it's worth it to you.

But then, buying guitars shouldn't be about how much it's worth when if you think at some point you may be done with it.

If it's good, you keep it, if it isn't - that was the price of admission, and you probably got your money's worth by then anyway.

[Skintight]

Originally Posted by Drubbing

The only way to lose money on a guitar is either paying too much or selling too soon

Or buying a Squier.