Owning high end gear

[uriah1]

Originally Posted by hemingway

The lack of gear snobbery on this forum is a lot of what makes it so good.

+1

[Skintight]

Originally Posted by trev333

remember US Fenders are production guitars...there's millions of them... hardly snobbery to prefer them....

Really good point, the most expensive guitar I own is a Telebration OGR and I wouldn't class it as a truly high-end guitar, so I don't know where this idea of guitar snobbery comes from, I prefer it to my other guitars I own (and have owned) because of the neck profile, I also feel it is unique and has great tone, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

I like my MIM strat, I like my first ever Washburn guitar with its foot-high action that used to make my fingers bleed and sharp fret-edges that used to cut into my fingers.

I still go back to my old Washburn on occasion, I'd never get rid of it, but I also would never gig with it either.

There's definitely something to be said about playing with a cheap guitar and playing well, but the thing is when you do it live, no-one who is watching understands that you are playing with cheap equipment -apart from other guitarists- I find this incredibly show-offy and pretentious (if done for that sole reason), it's like the polar-opposite of someone busting out an original 51' nocaster and vintage amp and being unable to play.

I like all my gear, but I've only ever -loved- my OGR, I can't explain why, but their it is, maybe it's the limited run thing it's got going on, I dunno.

[Big_Bend]

I love my high end, medium, and low end music gear.


Then again, my low end stuff might qualify as high end to a lot of people.


I just try to get high quality gear for the best price possible. I can't handle low quality stuff sorry.

[basher]

I'm a guitar player, not a collector. My guitars are all good. Some of them cost more than others. It's not something I think about much.

[homesick345]

Originally Posted by basher

I'm a guitar player, not a collector. My guitars are all good. Some of them cost more than others. It's not something I think about much.

well said

[emu!]

I bet the mark-up on an LP is like 1000%...just because they know they can get it.

Marketing...gotta love it!!!

[Troubleandahalf]

I enjoy blowing people's minds with my CV. Hell, it blows my mind that it sounds that good. But I certainly wouldn't kick a Fender CS out of bed, or off the stage, if you get my drift.

[ac15]

Been enjoying some aspects of cheaper instruments lately, particularly my Epiphone jazz box. I own vintage Gibsons and other high end stuff, but I really like the fact that I can play the Epi, walk away and lay it down just about anywhere, not worry about it so much at gigs etc. Plus it has a great neck and looks extremely cool. Acoustically, there's no way it competes with a more lightly built archtop and I get that....but when I gig I plug it in and I probably get close enough to the plugged in sound of a good jazz box that no one would ever notice.

Bottom line, is I like the casual "no worry" attitude I can take with my cheaper stuff.

[AngelStrummer]

Originally Posted by Ricky D.

I was a young guy when you were a young guy. There was a good reason why we stuck to those brands back in 1965. The cheap Asian stuff was junk back then. So was the cheap US stuff. You had to pay up for the name brands to get a playable instrument in those days.

It's a different world now. Guitars with good playable necks are cheap now. Good replacement pickups are cheap if you need a different sound. The hgh end stuff is still better than the cheap stuff, but a player on a tight budget never had it so good.

This. The bang for the buck in sub-$500 guitars today is infinitely higher than it was only 20 years ago.

[Jakedog]

I'm more of a middle of the road guy.

I can't stomach the cheap stuff. I've tried, but it just doesn't do it for me. I believe that some of it could, with the right amount of work and modding, but I can't justify that. As a guy who plays for a living, who will probably never be "famous", I don't have the budget to buy cheap guitars and spend the money making them as nice as my nice ones, yet still have them be worth half as much if I need to sell one.

I get that people like to do that, it just doesn't work for me.

When I was growing up, learning to play, and starting down my musical path in life, I dreamed of all of the top shelf stuff. I could never afford it. I wanted a Custom Shop Strat, but instead busted my hum nine ways to Sunday to buy a used American Standard. I dreamed of owning a Marshall Plexi, and a Brown Super, but although they were still somewhat affordable when I started out, they were impossible to find, so I settled the SF TR amps I could find all day in pawn shops for $200-$300.

I can't get into the low end stuff, it just doesn't perform for me the way my stuff does, and that is a level of performance I need to do my job effectively without putting a bunch of cash into mods and upgrades on a guitar that will never be worth what I've put into it. I get why that can be fun, it just doesn't work for me.

I'm over the really high end stuff now for the most part, and have found much enjoyment and pleasure in my "middle of the road" gear. It's pro stuff, it just doesn't cost thousands of bucks. I would still love to have a Custom Shop strat, but I probably never will. For the price of a new one, I could have five Am. Stds., and I love those guitars. I would love to have a really nice boutique amp or six, but I love the ones I have. I play next to guys all the time who have very high end amplifiers, my old Marshall and my Vox AC15 hang in there just fine. I like the way I sound when I plug into somebody's Dr Z, or Divided By 13, or Tone King, but I also really like the way I sound through my amps. I like it a LOT. It's my sound, and it makes me happy. So although it would be nice to have one of those, I'm not aching for one.

I have three Am. Std. strats, all bought used, none for more than $600. I have a Gibson LP Jr. I bought new for $600. I have a beautiful one of a kind custom built tele that my brother made for me when he was in Luthier's school that cost me next to nothing. Although to be fair, that guitar would cost several thousand if somebody had to pay for one like it to be built... I have a Marshall head that I've had since 1989, bought used for under $300. I have a new Vox AC15C1 that I paid the standard price for. I have some nice acoustics, including one my borther built just for me, and a Takamine ESN10C that's my main gigging acoustic. I consider that middle of the road too. It sells new for around a grand, which isn't much for the quality and sound I get from it.

Could I gig iwth a bunch of $200 guitars? I probably could, but I couldn't enjoy it much without putting more into them than they'd be worth. Doesn't make financial sense. On the flip side, I no longer feel the need to wish I could spend $3K on a guitar. I would love to have the means to buy one, but I know now that I don't NEED one.

Just a perspective from a guy who does not have the means to buy whatever he wants, and probably never will. Good gear matters to me. And makes financial sense to buy. Super high end stuff would be nice, but is not necessary. The low end stuff just doesn't cut it. Even if it sounds and plays good out of the box (which is super rare, when comparing stock cheapies to my stuff), it's made with cheaper hardware and components that just don't prove reliable over the long haul when you gig five nights a week in perpetuity.

[Ricky D.]

Originally Posted by jjkrause84

Because there is only one acceptable opinion?

Look, I know the cool thing to do is to prefer cheaper gear (our inner hipster coming out?), but to believe that more expensive gear is no better than cheaper gear is incredibly cynical. It implies that USA-made guitars are marked up entirely for ethereal prestige value, and not for any quality of craftsmanship.

Barring rare mishaps (like that one magic Squier we've all played at some point.....) you typically do 'get what you pay for'.

Don't kid yourself. Make a batch of USA Fenders with Squier decals and put them on the wall at Guitar Center with Fender prices next to an identical batch with Fender decals. See what sells, and you will know what prestige is worth.

The Fender Custom Shop uses CNC machines for the necks and bodies, same as all the Asian factories. If you upload the Custom Shop software to the Squier machines, you could have Nocasters coming down the line for $229.99. List price. How different from the Fender CS version for $3500 more? Finish, hardware, setup, and a legitimate Fender decal. Invest a $hundred or two in parts and a Sunday afternoon on the workbench, and our hypothetical Squier Nocaster is functionally comparable to the CS version, just a refin and a decal away.

The CS Nocaster I'm picking on is still an exclusive and prestigious product of the highest quality. It's worth it for those who choose to pay up for a Fender guitar of the highest quality. But for those who know quality when they hold it in their hands, it's a sweet feeling to get as close as we can today for a tenth of the cost.

[drb1346]

I'm not high end in anything. My 2 American Standards are as far as I go, and I'm getting rid of them soon in favor of my HWY 1 and MIM Standard Tele. . . .

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by Ricky D.

Don't kid yourself. Make a batch of USA Fenders with Squier decals and put them on the wall at Guitar Center with Fender prices next to an identical batch with Fender decals. See what sells, and you will know what prestige is worth.

The Fender Custom Shop uses CNC machines for the necks and bodies, same as all the Asian factories. If you upload the Custom Shop software to the Squier machines, you could have Nocasters coming down the line for $229.99. List price. How different from the Fender CS version for $3500 more? Finish, hardware, setup, and a legitimate Fender decal. Invest a $hundred or two in parts and a Sunday afternoon on the workbench, and our hypothetical Squier Nocaster is functionally comparable to the CS version, just a refin and a decal away.

The CS Nocaster I'm picking on is still an exclusive and prestigious product of the highest quality. It's worth it for those who choose to pay up for a Fender guitar of the highest quality. But for those who know quality when they hold it in their hands, it's a sweet feeling to get as close as we can today for a tenth of the cost.

I hear this argument all the time. It has one fatal flaw. It assumes that that wood being used in the Chinese Sqier factories is the same as the wood being used in the Custom Shop. It's not. So yes, you could get a squier made in the chinese shop, with a neck and body cut to the exact same dimensions, and made out of the same type of wood, but it's never going to be the same quality. Never. "Alder", "Ash", "Maple", etc is not all created equal.

[Jakedog]

Double post...

[idjster]

We've got a couple of high end guitars at home, high-end for us, anyway, between $1,600 and $2,600, so that's high end for us. And we love to play them at home, but because of the risks inherent in taking them places outside the home we most often just take the lower end equipment to gigs or when we have to take equipment out. And I don't think I've played very many better Teles than my MIM anyway. That doesn't mean that there aren't Teles that are better than mine - I'm sure there are, and many of them - but I don't have to look for them anymore.

I certainly don't feel the need to spend money on high end equipment anymore. I bought my Les Paul because it had the tone I wanted, the action I wanted and the feel I wanted, and I wanted it in a LP. Now that I have it I don't need another. Still, a fair amount of the cheaper equipment is really quite good, and all I'll ever want. Plus I watch for used equipment in great shape.

My $0.02...

[teleconvertMij]

Originally Posted by basher

I'm a guitar player, not a collector. My guitars are all good. Some of them cost more than others. It's not something I think about much.

+ 1
Can't help but smile at some of the snobbery on display :-)
IMHO if the guitar feels right, sounds good and plays well - that's it really. Go play it :-)
Why own so called high end gear and not use it? That's just stupid! ( ok, collecters excempt )

[jjkrause84]

Originally Posted by Ricky D.

Don't kid yourself. Make a batch of USA Fenders with Squier decals and put them on the wall at Guitar Center with Fender prices next to an identical batch with Fender decals. See what sells, and you will know what prestige is worth.

The Fender Custom Shop uses CNC machines for the necks and bodies, same as all the Asian factories. If you upload the Custom Shop software to the Squier machines, you could have Nocasters coming down the line for $229.99. List price. How different from the Fender CS version for $3500 more? Finish, hardware, setup, and a legitimate Fender decal. Invest a $hundred or two in parts and a Sunday afternoon on the workbench, and our hypothetical Squier Nocaster is functionally comparable to the CS version, just a refin and a decal away.

The CS Nocaster I'm picking on is still an exclusive and prestigious product of the highest quality. It's worth it for those who choose to pay up for a Fender guitar of the highest quality. But for those who know quality when they hold it in their hands, it's a sweet feeling to get as close as we can today for a tenth of the cost.

Aside from Jakedog's correct point about the quality of wood there is a great deal here that is, at best, highly debatable.

- The difference in parts between a Squier and a USA Tele (much less a CS) is far more than one or two hundred dollars. Pickups alone would eat most of that up.

- I may be wrong, but a CNC can only do so much of the work. There is still some aspects of production which are done by hand. The feel of my Am Std Tele neck ("hand-rolled") is vastly different to that of MIM Tele necks. This builds into the next point:

- Work has value, and costs money. The extra work put in on USA and CS guitars is done by expensive and skilled American workers. Squiers (and even MIMs) do not get the same attention, and are far more likely to need additional work to make them play as well.
Before you raise the (frankly, racist) argument that 'there's no difference between the Mexicans in Corona and those in Ensenada' let me remind you that Americans come in all shapes and colours. It is not the ethnicity of the worker that is changing the value of the product, it is their training, expertise, and the standards they are held to.

- As for your opening line....I'm not even sure where to begin. You 'prove' that, yes, prestige does matter...of course it does. If you re-read my post you'll see that I specifically state that it is cynical to believe that "USA-made guitars are marked up entirely for ethereal prestige value, and not for any quality of craftsmanship." I never denied prestige value, but stated that quality of craftsmanship is also a part of the appeal (and an often under-rated part of the appeal on the internet).

In any case, the huge success of the CVC line should show that the Squiers would sell just fine IF priced accordingly. Obviously branded Squiers will never sell for as much as branded Fenders, thanks to decades of Squier being the 'bargain' option. At the very least, buyers will be highly suspicious of the Squiers, and looking for cut corners. This is a matter of experience as much as snobbery or prestige.

[dada]

I didn't intend this to be another boring thread comparing USA to import guitars. It was about the ability to enjoy cheap crap after having the pleasure of owning high end gear.

[Telesavalis]

Originally Posted by RockerDuck

Sold my Marshall amps. Found a TRRI at an auction that was PTP wired and blackfaced for $375. My Les Paul Classic and USA Stat plus sit at home. I gig with a 72 Fender MIM thinline my wife bought me for $400. I gig more now than 40 yrs ago using cheaper equipment. Feels pretty good.

Pretty much the same here as far a guitars go. I have gotten to a point where I leave my high end guitars at home and use Asian or MIM guitars at gigs. A couple of close calls involving stumbling dancers convinced me that was a sound decision.

[Skintight]

I love how if you prefer a more expensive guitar over a cheaper guitar it automatically qualifies you as a snob.

I prefer Ferrari's over Volkswagen's but unfortunately I own a Volkswagen, such is life.