Why Do Strats/Teles Sound Different Even w/ Same Pickups?

[markesquire]

Yesterday I played both a blacktop strat and a blacktop tele. Obviously, both had two humbucker pickups. The tele sounded very much like a tele, a bit stiffer and more solid, perhaps more rock-ready and jazz-capable. The strat sounded surprisingly like a strat on the neck pickup, and sounded different than the tele.

If both have an alder body, maple neck, rosewood fretboard and identical pickups, why would they sound different? The only thing I can think of is that the strat has a floating trem bridge attached to springs. I really like that SOUND, but I have no use for a tremolo and prefer the solid construction of hardtails.

[waparker4]

I'm not sure they have the same pickups. For one, the strat's are splittable and the tele's are not.

[Jakedog]

The bridge makes a HUGE difference in the sound between a strat and a tele. Body and headtsock mass to lesser degree, but they do have an affect.

I love strats. I hate trems. I block all my trems by installing five springs and screwing the claw all the way in.

I do NOT like hardtail strats, generally speaking. They sound very different from blocked trem strats, and are not my cup of tea.

If you dislike trems, and like strats, try decking one like I do. It may just be the ride you're looking for.

[waparker4]

It is perhaps worth noting that the blacktop telecaster bridge is a rather poor quality hardtail strat bridge IIRC

[J-man]

Well, before this turns into a lively debate about what affects tone and how much, I'd like to suggest that you were (possibly) hearing with your eyes to some extent. To put it another way - the aesthetic differences tricked you into thinking they sounded further apart than they actually were.

I may be totally wrong and even if I'm right, I'm sure there are plenty of other factors to be considered, but based on my experience the way a guitar looks does affect how people perceive its tone.

[Jazzerstang]

one word-- bridge.

[exltd001]

Actually, The neck joint on a strat has a rounded heal and the heel on the Tele Neck joint is flat. You can put a a hard tail on both strat and a tele and the tele will still sound like a tele. It is the neck joint that is why a tele sounds the way it does and the strat sounds the way it does. I have a tele (flat heel) with a tremolo and it still sounds like a tele.
The characteristic sound comes from the neck heel shape

[refin]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

The bridge makes a HUGE difference in the sound between a strat and a tele. Body and headtsock mass to lesser degree, but they do have an affect.

I love strats. I hate trems. I block all my trems by installing five springs and screwing the claw all the way in.

I do NOT like hardtail strats, generally speaking. They sound very different from blocked trem strats, and are not my cup of tea.

If you dislike trems, and like strats, try decking one like I do. It may just be the ride you're looking for.

I do the same with all my strats.

[bradpdx]

Originally Posted by J-man

Well, before this turns into a lively debate about what affects tone and how much, I'd like to suggest that you were (possibly) hearing with your eyes to some extent. To put it another way - the aesthetic differences tricked you into thinking they sounded further apart than they actually were.

I may be totally wrong and even if I'm right, I'm sure there are plenty of other factors to be considered, but based on my experience the way a guitar looks does affect how people perceive its tone.

+1

When I play my Strat, I know for sure I am playing a Strat because of the way it looks and hangs on a strap, the way the knobs interact and the natural positions of one's hands. This deeply colors my impression.

(BTW, I leave my tremolo floating with 5 springs. I like it to work, but stiff so that the bridge doesn't move much when bending strings.)

[hemingway]

Originally Posted by exltd001

Actually, The neck joint on a strat has a rounded heal and the heel on the Tele Neck joint is flat. You can put a a hard tail on both strat and a tele and the tele will still sound like a tele. It is the neck joint that is why a tele sounds the way it does and the strat sounds the way it does. I have a tele (flat heel) with a tremolo and it still sounds like a tele.
The characteristic sound comes from the neck heel shape

At the risk of sounding dumb, I don't see how the shape of the neck joint can make much if any difference.

I built a telemaster, but I wanted a strat neck on it, so I had the maker of the body cut a strat neck pocket in it. The resulting guitar sounds like a tele. It has a tele bridge, tele pickups, and a strat neck and pocket.

[hemingway]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

The bridge makes a HUGE difference in the sound between a strat and a tele. Body and headtsock mass to lesser degree, but they do have an affect.

I love strats. I hate trems. I block all my trems by installing five springs and screwing the claw all the way in.

I do NOT like hardtail strats, generally speaking. They sound very different from blocked trem strats, and are not my cup of tea.

If you dislike trems, and like strats, try decking one like I do. It may just be the ride you're looking for.

That's interesting - I'm planning to build a strat from parts, and I have no use for a trem, so was considering a hardtail bridge. Are you saying that if use a hardtail it won't really sound like a strat?

I'm not an expert on strats (or on teles, for that matter), so I would appreciate the benefit of your experience before I start building.

[guitarzan13]

Are the pickups in the exact same place on both guitars? As in distance from the bridge and the neck??

[bendecaster]

I also do as Jakedog. I have a pile of Strats, all of them trems and all have 5 springs and spring holders tightened down to the hilt. At least, the ones that I use to play at gigs. I just can't get with a hardtail either, but I'm not sure about sound-wise, as I don't have much experience with hardtails. I played one years ago, didn't like it and have kept away from them since.
In my experience, a Strat sounds like a Strat and a Tele sounds like a Tele. Neck joint? Uh, I dunno 'bout that one.

[exltd001]

[QUOTE=bendecaster;4227756]
In my experience, a Strat sounds like a Strat and a Tele sounds like a Tele.


OK, I think we all agree on that. But it is the neck heel that is the difference. Sure there are things that can change the sound. But from the original post all things are the same, The only real difference is the neck heel. Generally the more surface area / stronger connection to connect vibrations of the neck and the body, the less twang. Tele->Strat->Set neck->Through neck...

Best of luck.

[choupique]

I stuck a carefully cut oak wedge between the trem block and the body on mine. I'm convinced the string vibration to body transfer is improved. All I know for sure is that it sure is a sweet sounding guitar.

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by J-man

Well, before this turns into a lively debate about what affects tone and how much, I'd like to suggest that you were (possibly) hearing with your eyes to some extent. To put it another way - the aesthetic differences tricked you into thinking they sounded further apart than they actually were.

I may be totally wrong and even if I'm right, I'm sure there are plenty of other factors to be considered, but based on my experience the way a guitar looks does affect how people perceive its tone.

I think the J-Man is right.

I played these models and felt neither was all that representative of their breed. Now, was I predisposed to hearing the differences and not the similarities? Did I have an outcome in mind before I picked up either guitar and did I play them through enough amps.

I've got a Tele with a Strat heel and neck pocket and I don't hear anything I can attribute to the shape of the heel. I've played G + L "S"style models with Fender vintage style pickups and I couldn't say they sounded at all tele-ish. No, if I was selecting a #1 item to set the S and T Blacktops apart it would be the bridge design. I would also like to throw out a much more likely candidate than the neck pocket/heel shape and that's the dramatically different routing and way the pickups are affixed to the guitar.

[hemingway]

[QUOTE=exltd001;4227797]

Originally Posted by bendecaster

In my experience, a Strat sounds like a Strat and a Tele sounds like a Tele.


OK, I think we all agree on that. But it is the neck heel that is the difference. Sure there are things that can change the sound. But from the original post all things are the same, The only real difference is the neck heel. Generally the more surface area / stronger connection to connect vibrations of the neck and the body, the less twang. Tele->Strat->Set neck->Through neck...

Best of luck.

So if I want more twang on my tele - and I do - then I should make sure I have a lousy connection between neck and body? That seems counter-intuitive.

[Arbiter]

Good question, and in response, a tidal wave of misinformation. Wow.

Guitars with the same electronics sound different because they sound different acoustically. It really is that simple.

(the neck heel makes the difference? I mean, c'mon. Some of us have built guitars for a living, you realize.)

[StratBluesRock]

The bridge, of course.

[TC6969]

Its the headstock!

The Tele is smaller and a different shape so that makes the sound different!

(Hey! It makes about as much sense as the neck heel/heal idea!)