Why Do Strats/Teles Sound Different Even w/ Same Pickups?

[tele12]

Tokai called their Strat copies "Springy Sound" and their Tele copies "Breezy sound". I think the springs make the big difference.

[hemingway]

Originally Posted by tele12

Tokai called their Strat copies "Springy Sound" and their Tele copies "Breezy sound". I think the springs make the big difference.

So, my question is, if I build a strat with a hardtail, will it sound less like a strat than one that has the whole nine yards of trem fitted - even though I will never use the trem?

[Psyclone]

I often wonder, does anyone in the audience care what I'm playing? To prove this point to myself, I played a $40 used Peavey Predator at a recent jazz gig. Nobody, myself included, seemed to care.

It did sound pretty good for a garage sale guitar.

[Jakedog]

[QUOTE=exltd001;4227797]

Originally Posted by bendecaster

In my experience, a Strat sounds like a Strat and a Tele sounds like a Tele.


OK, I think we all agree on that. But it is the neck heel that is the difference. Sure there are things that can change the sound. But from the original post all things are the same, The only real difference is the neck heel. Generally the more surface area / stronger connection to connect vibrations of the neck and the body, the less twang. Tele->Strat->Set neck->Through neck...

Best of luck.

Somebody has been drinking some strange kool-aid. I have put tele necks and strats a vice versa for decades. It has no noticeable effect on how either guitar sounds. I also have a custom lutheir built tele with a rounde strat neck joint.

The neck joint has nothing, and I mean NOTHING to do with the tonal differences bewteen strats and teles. Now neck-thru and set neck are whole nuther bag of potatos. THOSE will affect tone. But a bolt on maple neck and an alder/ash body is what it is. the bridge and pickups, and pickup placement make all the difference, not the neck pocket. The only thing that matters there is that it fits well. And even that's not all that important, as is evidenced by the vast numbers of people who put tele necks on strats and vice versa with no modding.

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by hemingway

That's interesting - I'm planning to build a strat from parts, and I have no use for a trem, so was considering a hardtail bridge. Are you saying that if use a hardtail it won't really sound like a strat?

I'm not an expert on strats (or on teles, for that matter), so I would appreciate the benefit of your experience before I start building.

It will defintiely sound like a strat, it will just sound like a hardtail strat. I prefer the sound of sa blocked trem to a true hardtail.

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by TC6969

Its the headstock!

The Tele is smaller and a different shape so that makes the sound different!

(Hey! It makes about as much sense as the neck heel/heal idea!)

Not so fast.

If the headstocks were of the same approximate mass, I hear what you're saying.

But if one guitar has a headstock with twice the mass of another, why sure they're potentially gonna sound different.

My angle is just off that, and goes like this. Every ounce you add to the headstock means some mass (more than an ounce) you have to trim off the girth of the neck, the thickness of the neck in the areas you play. Otherwise your neck comes in at 600 grams and more, and if that mass is heavily proportioned out beyond the nut you are gonna have yourself an unbalanced guitar. This is the reason we won't soon have any good data to demonstrate what you gain by using a small T sized headstock instead of the larger and larger ones.

[dsutton24]

The bridge makes a HUGE difference in the sound between a strat and a tele. Body and headtsock mass to lesser degree, but they do have an affect.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up with, but I believe this is true. I also believe that someone with good technique can blur the line between the Tele / Strat sound considerably.

[bradpdx]

Originally Posted by dsutton24

I have absolutely nothing to back this up with, but I believe this is true. I also believe that someone with good technique can blur the line between the Tele / Strat sound considerably.

+1

I cut my teeth on Telecaster. I play a Strat a lot these days, but no one doubts that I play it with a Telecaster approach that differs greatly from most Strat players (especially rock guys). That means that I use a pick-and-fingers technique, lean heavily on bridge PUP sounds, and place my right hand between the middle and bridge pickups. Picking closer to the neck PUP is what a lot of Strat players do, and it removes some of the wonderful twangy "hardness" of sound that I shoot for.

I actually like the bridge PUP on my AmStd Strat (a VanZandt Blues set) almost as much as any Tele I've had. It twangs like an SOB, chicken-pickin' sounds just great on that thing. When I play it, I don't miss the bridge on my Tele much at all - it cuts the mustard!

If you heard me play my Strat on the bridge and were blindfolded, you'd have a hard time figuring out which guitar it was. I know I would.

[Ringo]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but one BIG difference is that a Strat with a trem bridge has so much wood routed out under the pickguard that it's almost a semi hollow guitar, that alone with the different bridge makes a LOT of the difference between the tone of a Strat vs IMHO.

Also the pickups in the Blacktop Strat have 4 conductor leads, so they split to single coil when in the #2 and #4 positions, the Blacktop Tele if I'm not mistaken is just full humbucker mode and a 3 way switch?

I had a Blacktop Strat, the bridge pu was ok but I thought the neck pu was way too hot and muddy sounding.

[TC6969]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

Not so fast.

If the headstocks were of the same approximate mass, I hear what you're saying.

But if one guitar has a headstock with twice the mass of another, why sure they're potentially gonna sound different.

My angle is just off that, and goes like this. Every ounce you add to the headstock means some mass (more than an ounce) you have to trim off the girth of the neck, the thickness of the neck in the areas you play. Otherwise your neck comes in at 600 grams and more, and if that mass is heavily proportioned out beyond the nut you are gonna have yourself an unbalanced guitar. This is the reason we won't soon have any good data to demonstrate what you gain by using a small T sized headstock instead of the larger and larger ones.

The Strat decal has more letters in it than the Tele which provides more vibration dampening.

[Breen]

Are the Blacktop Strat's pickups pickguard mounted or screwed on like a Tele?

My believe are Strats sound like they do because their pickups are pickguard mounted. And Tele's sound as they do because of their pickup mount and their bridge design. It contributes much to the characteristics of a guitar is what I think.

Playing and tone, on the other hand, is up to the player.

No, really! My opinion being expressed. No joke! The neck heel one was funny.

[waparker4]

Blacktop strat has a swimming pool route iirc. The pickups on both models are suspended. The teles bridge hb is suspended from a pickup ring

[colorado]

It's the decals. STRATOcaster vs TELEcaster. That is an extra 2 letters on the strat decal. That 's why teles sound brighter. They aren't carrying that extra heavy decal.

J-Man has it right.

[exltd001]

I pose this question. If the neck joint has nothing ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the sound, then why does virtually every guitar that is manufactured as a Telecaster guitar have the square neck joint. They don't manufacture them with a round neck joint it is square. Wouldn't it be cheaper to make all bolt on neck guitars with the same routing jig? Of course when you put a strat neck on a tele it sounds like a tele. Look at the surface area that touches the end, it is small, compared to when the strat neck is put on the strat. This is the Elephant in the room. It is too obvious.

[superbadj]

What are you talking about? The route on the strat matches the end shape of the neck, just like it matches on a Tele. Yes, they're different shapes, but each matches the shape of the body.

So if they're both touching all the way around the neck joint, how does the shape of that cut matter?

I'm gonna guess you're just being silly because...well, whether you realize it or not, you're being silly.

[KevinB]

Originally Posted by exltd001

...why does virtually every guitar that is manufactured as a Telecaster guitar have the square neck joint. They don't manufacture them with a round neck joint it is square. Wouldn't it be cheaper to make all bolt on neck guitars with the same routing jig?

Why does virtually every guitar that is manufactured as a Telecaster guitar have a Telecaster-shaped headstock. They don't manufacture them with a Strat-style headstock it is Tele-shaped. Wouldn't it be cheaper to make all bolt on neck guitars with the same headstock jig?

The surface area differences between a Tele neck pocket and a Strat neck pocket are minimal. I don't believe for a minute that it makes any noticeable difference in tone.

[exltd001]

Then I guess you will never know. Because all that has been done here is determined that nothing matters, the bridge the pickups, the neck the wood, or the mass. Best of luck. I suggest you ask Warmoth, the agree with me. Best of luck arguing about a non issue, this has been settled by Fender Long ago.

[tpaul]

I have to say, I've been hanging around this forum for a long time, and this is the first time I've ever heard anyone attribute tonal differences to the shape of the neck heel.

I would like to personally thank exltd001 for enlivening my TDPRI experience - no, my entire morning. And to think, these were his/her first four posts! With a bit more experience, a few more years of posting under the ol' belt, what couldn't exltd001 come up with? The possibilities boggle the mind.

[stevehyphen]

Originally Posted by J-man

Well, before this turns into a lively debate about what affects tone and how much, I'd like to suggest that you were (possibly) hearing with your eyes to some extent. To put it another way - the aesthetic differences tricked you into thinking they sounded further apart than they actually were.

I may be totally wrong and even if I'm right, I'm sure there are plenty of other factors to be considered, but based on my experience the way a guitar looks does affect how people perceive its tone.

Another point to add to this. Many people play different guitars in different ways. I think it's part of the hearing with your eyes thing. When I do it, it's not even a subtle difference. How I play the same lick on a strat vs. a tele is a lot different.. bends, palm-muting, fake harmonics, vibrato, position choice, etc. Throw guitar construction and hardware choices on top of that and you see why they sound different.

[exltd001]

This is the question posed: Why Do Strats/Teles Sound Different Even w/ Same Pickups?