Question For Sound Guys..

[guitar dan]

I play I a band similar to yours. I have always gone the route of a clean amp and getting od/distortion from pedals.

My amps: fender pro reverb, dr z Maz 38, Mesa dc3, I even use my Roland cube 80xl for some gigs
Od/ distortion pedals: Mesa v twin, jeckyl &hyde, full drive 2

You could still use your Marshall with an attenuator, or you could try a stage baffle.

[Minky]

Originally Posted by Andy Summers

WOW...Thank you everyone!!! I definitely love the sound of the stack..but if I cant push it past two..whats the sense..the JCM 900 is 100 watts.Why did I get it, you ask? Because it has "that" tone for me..but not when the volume is at two..I was actually conemplating a used Cyber Champ 40 watter..GC has one for 200.00..no tubes, small, etc..but Im still considering it..they have a used Blues Deluxe for 549 as well...

Oh...and what if the other guitarist uses a 4x12...and he wont be changing that any time soon...we do always use a sound person, so micing is always present.

Go for that Blues Deluxe.
Thats what I use for my clean amp.

[greggorypeccary]

This needs to be repeated....

Originally Posted by Jakedog

Amps aren't loud, guitar players are.

[Telarkaster]

Do you like your amp? Can you control your stage volume? Do you have enough space on stage? Do you not mind having to lug the head and cab around? If yes, then play what you like. It's your amp, enjoy it!

[String Tree]

I have run sound for many, many, shows.
I can count on one hand the times a player had the brains to see what was happening in the room and turn it down.
The rest was pure Ego.

These guys have Psychological issues: Easier to FAIL and invent somebody else to blame (I was just tryin' to have a good time Dude!) than actually put in the WORK to make it work.

One guy who got the message just said "oh yeah, watch this!"

He turned it down but, he made it LOOK like he was playing at 11 1/2!
He made faces like he was in pain, stared people down from the stage, Brilliant!
That was Rock-n-roll!

I say to all guitarists, check your ego at the door, have the balls to turn after your solo is over and let the singer be the loudest thing on stage.

[NashTel177]

I had a Marshall half stack that NEVER got used. It was to much to haul around and way to loud. I just traded it in for an AC15C1 and run it with a 1X12 Mesa. Now I have two amps that I can use and both have been plenty loud for any situation I've come across so far.

[superchicken_VI]

I've never had a complaint with my Boogie Studio Caliber. 25w, 1x12, master volume, channel switching with a great clean and a great OD.

[Big John]

Originally Posted by TeleTim911

You play what you have, plain and simple.

That's the one !
Talk to the sound man first and work out a strategy and stick to it, you are both being paid to do a job, if he winces at a 4x12 I would question his experience/ability, come on, they are not uncommon !
You may have to turn down or point it at an odd angle, he may have to relinquish some 'control' but if he's a pro a 4x12 shouldn't phase him.

Of course, you could buy a dozen amps for every possible room size but that ain't too smart :)

[Cunningham26]

I've heard of both Dan Auerbach (Black Keys) and Noel Gallagher (Oasis) trading in huge rigs for miked small combo amps going through certain cabs, etc. I've also seen plenty of small up and comers make due with their practice amp. Properly miked, i dont see why small wouldnt work. It's like milk in a recipe, you can always add more, but you can't take it away once it's in there, yaknowahimean?

[StratBluesRock]

Sound guys love my silverface Twin with EVs

[Andy Summers]

Thanks everyone..keep em comin..I read and appreciate everyones comments

As far as the lugging it around..I dont mind so much, just thatmy only vehicle is a convertible mustang...I have to pop the top to get the cab in...luckily I can close it after..but what a pain in the rain..I guess practicality is a big reason to change as well..Ill keep the Marshall for practice and outdoor stuff..but somehing smaller is on the horizon for the bar gigs, I think.

[kelnet]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

Amps aren't loud, guitar players are.

Unless you unplug them.

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by Big John

That's the one !
Talk to the sound man first and work out a strategy and stick to it, you are both being paid to do a job, if he winces at a 4x12 I would question his experience/ability, come on, they are not uncommon !

Yep. I was thinking some more, and I did have one issue, one time, with a 60 watt half stack. Sound guy kept complaining it was too loud (it wasn't, I'd played the same room dozens of times with the same amp, same band, and DIFFERENT sound guy and never once had an issue) but I fixed it anyway. One thing you can do if you're micing, is just turn the cab around. I just spun and faced it into the wall, with the head facing forward so I could get to the knobs. No more problem. With a mic on it, it was fine.

Also, if you want to get louder and not kill people, rig a way to lean that cab WAY back, so it's pretty much pointed at the ceiling. Takes up more real estate that way, but should alleviate any issues with melting the faces off the audience.

LIke I said at first though, if you use a big amp sensibly, all you have is a nice big full sound, not necessarily a raging loud sound.

[Teleglide]

I have three go-to amps for clubs, depending on the size of the venue: a Princeton Reverb, a Deluxe Reverb and a SF Bassman head and a 2x10 open back cab (Emi Legend 10s). The one that will always work for me is the Bassman head and cab. it sounds great on 2 and it sounds great on 4. I never turn it up past 4.

We regularly play a local club with a house sound system that often has national acts - I've seen the Subdudes, Johnny A, and Peter Wolf there. Since they have a soundman and a good system I brought my BFDR the first time we played there, and I regretted it. It's a big stage and a fairly big room and the DR sounded anemic to me (eight piece band with three horns). He had me in the monitors, but IMHO guitar amps often sound lousy in the monitors, which aren't really designed for guitar frequencies. Also, I needed the vocals and some keyboards in my monitor mix, and the horns are right next to me. I got through the night but I wasn't too happy with my sound.

The next time we played there I brought the Basssman head and cab and I was much happier. The amp was on 3 or a little above and it sounded full and clean. I used a stompbox for dirt.

I'd much rather bring that rig and know that I will have enough headroom to get what i consider to be a good clean sound than show up with too little amp and depend on the monitors. BTW, the soundman said my volume was fine all night with the Bassman, and he agreed it sounded better than the DR in that venue.

When Peter Wolf played the same club he had Duke Levine on guitar playing through a Vox AC30 - I doubt if an AC15 would have sounded as good in that room. Of course Duke could make anything work.

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by kelnet

Unless you unplug them.

Amps get loud when you unplug them?

Sorry man, I couldn't resist.

[Andy Summers]

Intersting, Teleglide...I never even thought of trying a smaller cab..2x whatever...

[Bob W.]

I have used lower wattage amps through larger cabinets with good results, tonewise. Even a 15 watt amp sounds huge through a 4x12, and can be pushed into overdrive at much more reasonable volume. Similar to using a larger amp with an attenuator. This can work pretty well, but the directional nature of 4x12 cabinets still bugs me. Can't get very even coverage.

All guitar speakers are fairly directional in the high end, it's just the physics of the cone diameter versus the wavelength. But it's much more problematic with multiple drivers, unless a line array is employed. I've toyed with the idea of a line array for guitar, but it would have to be designed properly. I've got some ideas on the drawing board...

[raito]

Back in the day, all the lead guitarists (the endless succession, as I called them. The last one was a keeper.) for the band had an LP, a Marshall half-stack, and a volume pedal. And they made use of the pedal a lot. The other guitarist also had an LP, but a Princeton for an amp.

But that band had it together very, very well. No ego, because you knew you were going to get your chance. And sonce they were getting paid well, there was no need to rock the boat.

[kelnet]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

Amps get loud when you unplug them?

Sorry man, I couldn't resist.

Heh heh.

[klasaine]

I don't bring it to a coffee house jazz gig but I regularly play R&R through a 50 watt - non MV head into an open-back single 12" cab. For bars/clubs that hold 50 or more it's not too loud. I don't turn it all the way up as I like it's cleaner tones. I use a distortion pedal for the heavier gain I need. I've heard guys w/full 100 watt 1/2 stacks not be too loud. sometimes it's mic'd, sometimes not - ?

*Here's just a personal observation.
I play a lot of one-off for hire elec guitar gigs.
The bands where the players are competent, confident and have their individual sounds as well as the 'band sound' dialed in ... and the singer can at least project a little bit - I'm NEVER too loud.
The band where the players are shall we say less than stellar, don't have their sounds together, don't understand 'arrangement' and don't really know how to gel as a unit ... and the singer is whisper quiet - I'm ALWAYS too loud. Even with a pro jr and a compressor.

A tight band with good arrangements and that understands 'balance' can be loud (w/in reason) and yet not piss anybody off. A bad band will always be too loud.