Band "Dama" Scenario

[Paul in Colorado]

Simple. Lock 'em in a room together and don't let 'em out until either things are resolved or one of them is dead.

Isn't it weird that when person A has a problem with person B, they'll tell everyone in the world about it EXCEPT person B. And I'm as guilty of that as anyone.

[Andy Summers]

Originally Posted by Paul in Colorado

Simple. Lock 'em in a room together and don't let 'em out until either things are resolved or one of them is dead.

Isn't it weird that when person A has a problem with person B, they'll tell everyone in the world about it EXCEPT person B. And I'm as guilty of that as anyone.

HAHA!! Believe it or not..she only told the bass player..I just got it out of him what she wanted to discuss...thought she might be quitting.

And emu...we tried the voting..that didnt work either..ugh.

[Suho]

Originally Posted by Arbiter

This whole scenario is why I'm no longer willing to be in a band that runs democratically. Either I'm the guy in charge, or someone else is, but bands need dictators.

Well, I agree with this... to a point. I tend to be more like the OP in that I generally hang back and am the laid back guy who isn't trying to "have my way" all the time. I defer to the "leader" on most issues that are more efficiently handled that way, but that doesn't mean the leader is a dictator. I have been in bands where I was recruited as a supporting act for the singer/songwriter, and although he was a "benign" dictator, it ultimately becomes very un-fun quickly if you really have no say in what happens.

The leader should be more a spokesperson, I believe. But if something is happening I really don't like I will make it known, along with why I feel that way. I think most of us have all sorts of drama-stories from bands, and I get a little chuckle reading about this one. In the long run, way too much energy can be spent on such stupid little squabbles. Better to confront the guitarist as a band and give him an ultimatum. Tone down the primadonna behavior or start his own band.

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by Arbiter

This whole scenario is why I'm no longer willing to be in a band that runs democratically. Either I'm the guy in charge, or someone else is, but bands need dictators. Appoint your singer the dictator, and then fire Mopey Guitarist. Nobody needs to deal with that ****.

Other posters have said it, which is good because I didn't want to be the first - I would also point out that it is a LOT easier to find another guitar player than a decent singer.

Good luck.

This! Somebody has to be in charge. In my projects, that's me. I make it very clear that I will listen to and consider input from anyone involved, but when it comes down to decision time, the decisions will be mine, and they will be final. I've seen enough swimming in circles due to trying to make everybody happy to last me a lifetime. You can't make everybody happy. If you offer to buy the whole neighborhood ice cream every day for a year, there's gonna be one guy who's lactose intolerant and wants BBQ instead, and he'll want everybody to accomadate him. Bands need a defined leader, or they go no place.

In other projects, I am not the leader, so I give input when it's asked for, or when the situation asks for it. But I also repsect the leadership of whoever is in charge. The final decisions are theirs, whether I agree with them or not. It's called being a pro. If they consistently make decisions that I disagree with, or I feel are hurting the band, I'm free to leave at any time. I am not chained up or being held at gunpoint.

[Andy Summers]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

This! Somebody has to be in charge. In my projects, that's me. I make it very clear that I will listen to and consider input from anyone involved, but when it comes down to decision time, the decisions will be mine, and they will be final. I've seen enough swimming in circles due to trying to make everybody happy to last me a lifetime. You can't make everybody happy. If you offer to buy the whole neighborhood ice cream every day for a year, there's gonna be one guy who's lactose intolerant and wants BBQ instead, and he'll want everybody to accomadate him. Bands need a defined leader, or they go no place.

In other projects, I am not the leader, so I give input when it's asked for, or when the situation asks for it. But I also repsect the leadership of whoever is in charge. The final decisions are theirs, whether I agree with them or not. It's called being a pro. If they consistently make decisions that I disagree with, or I feel are hurting the band, I'm free to leave at any time. I am not chained up or being held at gunpoint.

I agree..though, Suho's definition of a "spokesperson" is more how I see it. But, someone has to point the direction, otherwise you're all over the place and thats how things get messy. I'm coming into this band as a "new guy" and I respect that...which may be another reason I'm able to take the back seat easier. But I think theres a lot to be said for a new guy to come in and add something a little "different" to the current songs, but yet remain kind of transparent..ie..not step over what everyone else is doing. I take it seriously and I'm OK with that in this situation. BUT..cant get behind pouting and stuff like that.

[Stubee]

Aren't 'band' and 'drama' synonyms?

Years ago a one of my best player friends kicked over a chair & swore up and down during a rehearsal all because I was trying to show the band "Bell Bottom Blues" & he couldn't hack it. I packed up & quit right there. He later called & apologized and we kept going, in/out of countless playing situations for the past 30 years. He's coming over to jam tonite. I love him...But he is not a pouting prima donna, just a guy with some oddities & issues he knows I won't take on stage.

As a guy who mainly just wants to play & have fun I agree about leaders; a band needs one. When someone asks me to sit in, they are the leader even if I'm the lead player & singer half the time. With the friend above I'm kinda the 'background guy' due to his strong personality on stage, but I'm cool with that as he knows his way about performing. If I put something together, I'm a bit directive on set list & arrangements as needed...but leading also = getting the good from those you're working with.

If it were me I'd quit with that guitar player unless they change. Life is short.

[Ed McG]

This really isn't a 'band" thing but a "group" thing that is actually part of most group dynamics. For a group to form the membership has to unite behind a leader in terms of identifying with the goals and values of the leader (that's according to Freud). Anyway, there can be different leaders for different functions in the group. The two people vying for leadership have 2 different visions of what the group is about.That's why they disagree about what to play and what to call the group. first step to settling this is to identify the goals of the group more than "just play music' that's too broad. The psychology of group dynamics is really interesting and often gets quite heated as we see in politics, families, bands-- any type of group, really. But basically the more a potential leader can identify his or her goals for the group, the more the group can get behind them and then you have a leader and a productive group group. At least that's the jist of my dissertation

[Tele Fan]

Just get out the boxing gloves, ring the bell and see who comes out on top

[Andy Summers]

Good points guys! Thanks..Ed McG...very true about not just being a "band" thing, but a group thing in general.

I hope you dont all think Im complaining..Its a cover band..not the end of the world. Im just a little bummed that our next practice is going to turn into some "therapy session". But I guess thats par for the course in this world! The bottom line is, they are all good people. They all love music..and who am I to tell someone how to go about living their.."dream"...if I may. As long as I'm happy..and I am...Im ready to go and will keep my mouth shut. But some arent happy..and lets face it..this ultimately effects performance.

Thanks all for sharing your stories and advice!

[Bernie]

Originally Posted by emu!

What about just voting on stuff? You got the ideal situation...being 5 members means no ties. Just get everybody to write down their choice of the two names on a piece of paper, drop them in a hat, and be done with it.

There it is - problem solved. If it's not dramatic enough, you could count the votes one by one, really slow.

[tpaul]

Generally, bands have leaders. The leader may put things up to a vote, or may make all decisions, or anything in between. But when it comes down to it, even in the most democratically run bands, you need a tie-breaker at times. That's the leader's job.

If there's no leader, one will come forth and take control over time. Perhaps that's what's happening now... the singer is making her move and the second guitarist is not happy about it. Ask yourself who you think should be leading the band, and if the answer is "the singer," then go with her judgement. If not, then this is the time to stand up and declare yourself.

It's not really about the name... as everyone, at some level, knows.

[Andy Summers]

Originally Posted by tpaul

Generally, bands have leaders. The leader may put things up to a vote, or may make all decisions, or anything in between. But when it comes down to it, even in the most democratically run bands, you need a tie-breaker at times. That's the leader's job.

If there's no leader, one will come forth and take control over time. Perhaps that's what's happening now... the singer is making her move and the second guitarist is not happy about it. Ask yourself who you think should be leading the band, and if the answer is "the singer," then go with her judgement. If not, then this is the time to stand up and declare yourself.

It's not really about the name... as everyone, at some level, knows.

Well said, tpaul..and I think youre right regarding the singer stepping up and the other guitarist not liking it. Should be interesting to see what happens at next practice..something doesnt sit right with me though about a " hey..heres what we all dont agree with you about.." b1tch session. But I guess it needs to be addressed if we are to carry on.

[PinewoodRo]

As Ed McG said - its a group thing. You could say that your group is a the 'storming' stage where you are clashing over leadership. Sounds like you might know how it turns out by the end of the week... If you can get through it, the theory says the next stage is the constructive bit. I feel for you though. With a covers band that's supposed to be fun it can be hard to balance the needs of the music with the needs of the people involved. Maybe booking a couple of gigs would focus everyone on a common goal?
For what its worth, I play in a 5-piece covers band, luckily with like-minded people, and we choose songs with power of veto. If one person doesn't want to play it then we don't play it - plenty more songs in the world. As GigsbyBoy said, the crowd will ultimately make the choices for you (if you want to get paid).

[Andy Summers]

Originally Posted by PinewoodRo

As Ed McG said - its a group thing. You could say that your group is a the 'storming' stage where you are clashing over leadership. Sounds like you might know how it turns out by the end of the week... If you can get through it, the theory says the next stage is the constructive bit. I feel for you though. With a covers band that's supposed to be fun it can be hard to balance the needs of the music with the needs of the people involved. Maybe booking a couple of gigs would focus everyone on a common goal?
For what its worth, I play in a 5-piece covers band, luckily with like-minded people, and we choose songs with power of veto. If one person doesn't want to play it then we don't play it - plenty more songs in the world. As GigsbyBoy said, the crowd will ultimately make the choices for you (if you want to get paid).

Very true..we actually have a few gigs booked...thats probably part of the reason for the "stress"...and Im definitely hoping we get through it..I have literaly dedicated the last six months of my life to this band...it is fun..but lets face it, its lots of work, as Im sure you all know....not to mention the money Ive speant on gas.haha..practice isnt exactly riight down the street..

[bossking7]

Originally Posted by jlindseyjr

No offense to any lead singers here, but it seems they are always at the center of these dramas.

+1

[TeleTim911]

First of all, you have a great attitude Andy. Reminds me of my older brother, tries to be the words of wisdom and the calm person. (I've played in many bands with him).

However, your other guitarist sounds like a spoiled brat that wants to get his way, be it right or wrong, at the cost of creating all this drama.

My advice is to ditch him, and tell him why....otherwise he's only going to get worse when he sees he's gaining the upper hand. You can't change him until he himself realizes he has a problem, just like an alcoholic or drug addict.

Why not look for a keyboard player to replace him? You'd be surprised how much a good keyboardist can add to a band. If that's not an option, find another guitarist, after all there is usually one on every corner.

[Andy Summers]

Originally Posted by TeleTim911

First of all, you have a great attitude Andy. Reminds me of my older brother, tries to be the words of wisdom and the calm person. (I've played in many bands with him).

However, your other guitarist sounds like a spoiled brat that wants to get his way, be it right or wrong, at the cost of creating all this drama.

My advice is to ditch him, and tell him why....otherwise he's only going to get worse when he sees he's gaining the upper hand. You can't change him until he himself realizes he has a problem, just like an alcoholic or drug addict.

Why not look for a keyboard player to replace him? You'd be surprised how much a good keyboardist can add to a band. If that's not an option, find another guitarist, after all there is usually one on every corner.

haha...great post, TeleTim, and thank you for the compliment..your bro sounds like a great guy :)...ya know what..Ive been mentioning a keyboardist from day 1...I love keys in a band!!! hmmmmmm..lol.

And youre right..if he doesnt change, Im afraid that will be it for this band...this version, anyway.

[dannew02]

Shouldn't a guy called "Andy Summers" have the experience to deal with egomaniacal singers? Just sayin'.

[Daddy Hojo]

I just wanna know what the band names are that no one can agree on...

[ast370]

yeah, details would in the band name discussion would be good. we could all pitch our opinions After all this though I am interested in hearing the results. Tough spot to be in, I had to play moderator in the band I was in for almost 8 years but everybody should provide something beneficial (not drama) besides quality playing. imho