Stuck in Improv Patterns...

[J-man]

I'm still having lots of fun with the minor pent scale, but lately I've been getting stuck in the same old pattern over and over again, what can I do to escape? :?

[BB]

Have you checked out the CAGED system? I inadvertantly stumbled on it several years ago thinking I was having an epiphany and actually coming up with something new. Someone here posted about it a year or so ago and shot my bubble all to hell! After 35 years of playing various pentatonic solos, this way of approaching the fretboard opened up a new vista of fresh ideas.

[fakeocaster]

Try to hum something over a backing track and then find the notes on yoiur guitar.It'll probably be minor pentatonic initially if thats what youre used to hearing and playing .It will definitly improve your phrasing and it will be yours

[Tim Armstrong]

One way to break free from habitual stuff is to change some basic technique. If you're used to playing with a pick, use your fingers, or a thumbpick. Or try to play the solo on just one string. Or keep it all below the fifth fret, or above the 12th fret. Anything to break you out of your comfort zone...

Then there's passion, feel, dynamics...

An exercise that a guitar teacher once gave me that had a huge effect on my soloing was to play a solo using just one actual note. Kinda like Neil Young's "Cinnamon Girl" solo. Try to see just how much you can pull out of that that one note, using pick attack, volume, pinch harmonics, etc. Play it hard, play it soft, bend up into it, bend down into it, play it staccato, play it legato, play it funky, play it straight...

Note: This is all stuff I stole from myself, posted recently on another bulletin board. Just in case it seems familiar!

Cheers, Tim

[denny]

One thing I like to do when it seems that I am playing the same pentatonic licks over and over is to play along with some Karaoke CDs. I think I got this idea from this board some time back.

My favorite karaoke CDs for getting "out of the box" are kid's songs and pre-1960 crooner standards. Not many minor chords and they don't take well to "bluesing up", plus you know the melody to most of them. This and trying to play WITHOUT bending any notes has expanded my rudimentary knowledge of music theory, and I have a few 'other' notes and phrases that sometimes fit into a blues context for a different flavor.

denny

[Chris S.]

Here's a thread from about a year and a half ago that you might find helpful:

http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?p=264938

(I was looking up something for someone else and stumbled on it.)

Hope it helps, CS

[ye olde fretmonkey]

Originally Posted by BB

Have you checked out the CAGED system? I inadvertantly stumbled on it several years ago thinking I was having an epiphany and actually coming up with something new. Someone here posted about it a year or so ago and shot my bubble all to hell! After 35 years of playing various pentatonic solos, this way of approaching the fretboard opened up a new vista of fresh ideas.

link?

[Chris S.]

Originally Posted by ye olde fretmonkey

link?

www.google.com

(Not being flip, but search on the words "caged system" and you'll get a whole list of links all giving different approaches to explaining the same thing...) CS

[denny]

I have thought about this subject again, and I have a new angle...

If you have a "habit" of playing the same licks the same way every time, it may not be a bad thing. Think of BB King.... with a half-dozen "sigature" licks, anyone who is in the know can tell who is playing. Does the great BB get tired of playing that way, and does he conciously play every note in his style?

NO, BB King, like every player, plays the way he has developed over the years, and it sounds like BB when he plays.

I said all this to say this... you may think your playing is stale and boring, BUT your audience may just like it... as it is, warts and all.

denny

[TG]

I have 3 suggestions.

One is to listen to Jeff Beck and Roy Buchanan and try to learn some of their licks. It's often their simple sounding things that are very odd to actually play. Great for making you use your fingers in different ways than you are used to. Playing along with any player will give you fresh ideas, but those 2 seem to be the best for playing their guitars outside the usual finger patterns.

Second is to play along to the radio or to the television (background music/ad breaks). Lots of new ideas seem to happen when I'm relaxed and mindlessly noodling along to something.

Three is to learn more about scales or to at least learn some different obscure ones. I got a basic scale booklet and, althought the whole 'Lydian'/ 'Dorian'/etc thing totally bamboozles my head, I learned some wierd minor and eastern sounding scales that are good finger excercise patterns and I often switch over to them when I'm improvising. Changes the whole mood of your solo.

[Telemaniac]

Originally Posted by ye olde fretmonkey

link?

CAGED Guitarist

[Bob Rogers]

Start by learning to play the basic melody of the song. Then embelish by adding other chord tones, then scale tones. Use the phrasing of the melody to modify your standard licks.

While my ideas might help, they also might be useless since I don't know what you play and what you want to play. This might be a good point in your development to get a good teacher.

[Dana]

Here's some Pentatonic stuff to check out, this is geared towards Rock and Jazz but will work for everything.

Free stuff:

http://www.jonfinn.com/altpent.html

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/175


I also recommend these two books. Both have really opened up my playing with regard to using pentatonic scales. Jon Finn's rant on pentatonic scale usage has really helped me. He describes dividing the guitar into pairs of strings 1 & 2, 2 & 3, 3 & 4, 4 & 5, 5 & 6, and suggests playing up and down the neck (horizontally) as opposed to playing vertically like most guitarists do.

[teletwangler]

Originally Posted by Bob Rogers

Start by learning to play the basic melody of the song. Then embelish by adding other chord tones, then scale tones. Use the phrasing of the melody to modify your standard licks.

A jazzer encouraged me to try that one and it really worked for me. Another jazz trick is to skip strings - for example, play an ascending lick starting on the G string and ending on the E but don't play any notes on the B.

[lenny]

Originally Posted by Bob Rogers

Start by learning to play the basic melody of the song. Then embelish by adding other chord tones, then scale tones. Use the phrasing of the melody to modify your standard licks.

While my ideas might help, they also might be useless since I don't know what you play and what you want to play. This might be a good point in your development to get a good teacher.

i think this is a great idea too. i had an "epiphany" (lol) when i realized how great this is. not only will it get you away from your old standard licks, but it makes it sound like you are *playing that particular song*, not just rattling your licks off.
it's really easy too when you get used to it , as an added bonus :)

[4mal]

Breath ... and use your breathing to start and stop your phrasing. This is a part of what happens when you listen to horn players. I find this really helps me a lot by forcing me to compose a line rather than blasting off the top of my head. I need a crutch now and again ...

[ye olde fretmonkey]

All great ideas.

this thread strikes a nerve with me...I get into a pretty deep rut with the same dozen or so country licks rephrased endlessly.

[BB]

Originally Posted by denny

I have thought about this subject again, and I have a new angle...

If you have a "habit" of playing the same licks the same way every time, it may not be a bad thing. Think of BB .... with a half-dozen "sigature" licks, anyone who is in the know can tell who is playing. Does the great BB get tired of playing that way, and does he conciously play every note in his style?

NO, BB, like every player, plays the way he has developed over the years, and it sounds like BB when he plays.

denny

Well...er, thank you! Usually no one but my wife ( and the guys I pay five bucks to clap after every solo ) consider me "great", but I'll take whatever I can get! I'm actually up to 7 signature licks now and hope to get to 8 before the great gig in the sky!

Seriously, you bring up some good points. I've been playing well over 35 years. No matter what I learn new, I still sound like me and my peeps can pick my style out of 50 pickers. Howard Roberts once said there are two kinds of players. Those who are constantly learning and those who are refining what they know. I've fallen into the latter most of my playing life, so it's exciting and refreshing to actually be learning something new...however slight or trite. There is always a way to put something new in there. The suggestion of playing along with old standards is a good one. It will force you to focus on playing the melody and not just jam out on the pents. Playing along with TV commercials and TV shows is another good way to foucus on melody. A good way of building a solo is to start with the melody, then variations on the melody before you lauch into the total pentatonic improv!