*&%#!?! DRUMMERS!!

ye olde fretmonkey · April 8th, 2005, 03:18 PM

Played with a buddy's band the other night; he had hired a drummer who was doing some pretty exasperating stuff.

*speeding up songs as they went along
*mics and triggers with a big Peavey amp...why a country drummer needs that I dont' know
*playing that wood block like it was a ride cymbal...every hit on that thing (through the amp) was like he was smackin me on the skull with a drumstick
*most baffling: he'd be playing a shuffle, then break into a 2/4 beat for about 8 bars, then back into the shuffle again WTF??? I'd look around at him as if to say, 'Dude, what th' hell are you doing?' but he'd ignore me.
*playing way too many fills and crashes like a rock drummer

I hope I'm not playing with that guy again anytime soon.

Teletwang · April 8th, 2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ye olde fretmonkey

Played with a buddy's band the other night; he had hired a drummer who was doing some pretty exasperating stuff.

.....*speeding up songs as they went along....

At the very least, a drummer's job is to keep time. Its that simple. If he's showboating on drums then he has picked the wrong instrument.

Hey Joe · April 8th, 2005, 03:58 PM

Most drummers just arent right in the head they cant help it.

Freddy Fender · April 8th, 2005, 04:01 PM

Question: How can you tell when there's a drummer at the door?

Answer: The knocking speeds up and slows down.
:P

dhdfoster · April 8th, 2005, 04:03 PM

I once played with a drummer that said, after being asked to keep the tempo steady, "I'm not controlling the tempo, you guys are. I'm just following along."

We didn't even know how to respond.

lenny · April 8th, 2005, 04:25 PM

bad drummers are THE WORST.
i'd rather have a bad player on any other instrument (lol if we need a bad player in the group)

Johnny Glow · April 8th, 2005, 04:33 PM

Drummers, sigh... Drove to a gig last night and locked my keys in the car. Took me an hour to get the drummer out.

TheGoodTexan · April 8th, 2005, 04:33 PM

I've only ever worked with one drummer that I liked. Others were fine off stage, I was even friends with some. But on stage, they were not inspiring.

This one drummer that I've worked with many times, played two gigs with me and Joel Terry last summer, and each time was the most memorable musical experience that I've ever had. He came prepared, and kept eye comtact with me (as the band leader) through out the night. He was spot on the entire time, and interpreted my cues perfectly.

If Joel pops in, no doubt he'll have a ton to say about this guy too.

Every other drummer that I've ever worked with was moderately adequate at best, and I've worked with my share of very poor drummers.

lenny · April 8th, 2005, 06:20 PM

yea, i'll second that too. a good drummer will ruin you for eternity on bad ones. SUCH a pleasure, to have a drummer who acts like a musician. and i dont think it's that hard either, it's not a technical thing, it's a head thing. being in touch with the group.
/shrug
:)

Chris S. · April 8th, 2005, 08:48 PM

One of my favorite movie lines of all time is in "City of Angels." Meg Ryan is growing increasingly frustrated with Nicholas Cage, who can't/won't tell her anything about his background (he's an angel, hence the title). Exasperated, and guessing at his possible reason for silence, she finally says, "Are you married? Are you homeless? Are you a drummer?"

I've been priveleged and lucky enough to play with some truly great drummers over the years. (I know, because I played with all the other ones, too...

) Some stuff I've learned:

- A lot of the very best drummers are complete, well-rounded musicians, i.e., they usually play some other instrument(s) in addition to drums/percussion. I've worked with drummers who were also guitarists, pianists, sax players, etc., and one who was both a flutist and a classical composer. They were all very good. When the drummer says things like "I think that's supposed to be a minor7b5 there, not a full diminished,"... you know you've got a good one. ;-)

- I heard a quote years ago that I've never forgotten: "The best drummers are the ones who wait for the beat, then swat it on the @$$ as it goes by." ;-) Words to live by.

- Speaking of which, did you know the drummer's NOT the timekeeper? Surprised? It's true, IMO. The bass player is the timekeeper. The drummer plays the time, but it's the bass player who sets and maintains the tempo. (Of course, having a bass player who keeps great time will merely expose a drummer who's rushing that much sooner.) Really – if the drummer's rushing, it's his or her own fault. If the whole band keeps speeding up, fire the bass player. :evil:

- Finally, one more joke. Two explorers are huddled over a campfire in a jungle clearing, listening to an ominous noise growing ever louder and more threatening. One says (in true B-movie fashion), "I don't like the sound of those drums." The noise stops suddenly, and from out of the darkened jungle they hear, "Sorry! He's not our regular drummer." [rim shot] 8) CS

El Capitan · April 8th, 2005, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris S.

- Speaking of which, did you know the drummer's NOT the timekeeper? Surprised? It's true, IMO. The bass player is the timekeeper. The drummer plays the time, but it's the bass player who sets and maintains the tempo. (Of course, having a bass player who keeps great time will merely expose a drummer who's rushing that much sooner.) Really – if the drummer's rushing, it's his or her own fault. If the whole band keeps speeding up, fire the bass player. :evil:

CS

You know I agree with that.
I have played bass since 1980. Started in "youth orchestra", and played in countless bands since then.

The REAL fight comes, when you try to tell the drummer that the bass player is really keeping the time, (please pay attention) and also playing harmony parts at the same time.
I had the biggest fight of my life one night, because I wouldn't play the root on the 3.... Drummer was lost. It was a new song rehearsal a slow boring song that needed some movement, in a gig deal I would have just "rooted it" on 1 and 3 to save him. See aren't we nice?
Well, last gig ever, I played the whole crazy song "overhand" all over the neck to screw with him and the slack guitar player, Aren't we mean? In a passive aggressive way I guess

jpkusa · April 8th, 2005, 10:37 PM

There is nothing in this world more frustrating than an uncooperative drummer. Especially one that can do Bonham or Keith Moon fills, but has never sat down and actually learned something like, say, Green Onions.

Lately I've been working in a cover band, and we changed drummers not too long ago. The new drummer is actually a singer/songwriter/guitarist who's just playing drums with us for extra cash - AND HE'S GREAT. I love it. He never plays too much, and because he's a songwriter, he knows what kind of drums HE would want to hear on HIS songs.

Our last drummer...jeez. I always knew if the stage was level, because he would be drooling out of BOTH sides of his mouth.

Tele-Whacker · April 9th, 2005, 12:38 AM

Working with a good drummer, is a great experience, but working with a bad one, is like a night in hell. One night we had a drummer set in with us, and he was so awfulllllll ! We played a couple songs, and since he was so bad, we took an early break, and got our regular guy back up.
How about the drummer that actually plays pretty steady, but can't play a roll in time, and comes in on the back beat. That sucks!

I do know a couple drummers that know music, and will actually call out the numbers to a band member that may not be familiar with the song.

Billy English, that plays drums on the road with Willy Nelson, can pick up a guitar and play it better than most guitar players.

ashtray · April 9th, 2005, 12:49 AM

Hehehe - this thread is perfect for me!

I just recently bought a full drum set, out of a couple things that drove me to it: 1) a good drummer is impossible for me to find for my schedule, 2) most drummers play to loud, 3) I am always tapping the steering wheel when I drive!

Ok, that doesn't make me a good drummer, and I proved this by noticing after the purchase that when sitting behind a drum kit, it looked nothing like my car's steering wheel.

It's a boring job after the fun of it wears off. I'll be practicing on a song, just the hi-hats going, and the 1/3 of the bass/snare. Start looking around - "I wanna hit stuff!". Now I see why drummers show-boat. Also, it's easy to smack the drums hard. Tough to hit them softly, but with the same stick rebound.

The bass player keeping the beat reminded me of a story: Back in college I was in this classic rock/country band. I was the bass player, and I would do this thu-thump on the "1", instead of just playing the note. I thought it sounded great! (Can't recall now if I was doing the "thu" on the 4+ or the 1 now!) It was "off timing" and more jazzy. (I still contest it sounded better than just a thump!) The drummer stopped the song and turned to me and asked if I had a problem hearing the drums, or staying on the beat. I tried to explain that I was doing that on purpose - but the idea that I was trying to sound like that baffled the heck out of him. He asked me not to play like that, but I can't recall if I changed or not!

I can NOW (geesh, like 12 years later!) understand what he was getting at! (And to my defense - I was playing a style like Led Zep's "The Ocean" bridge.)

ye olde fretmonkey · April 9th, 2005, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashtray

The bass player keeping the beat reminded me of a story: Back in college I was in this classic rock/country band. I was the bass player, and I would do this thu-thump on the "1", instead of just playing the note. I thought it sounded great! (Can't recall now if I was doing the "thu" on the 4+ or the 1 now!) It was "off timing" and more jazzy. (I still contest it sounded better than just a thump!)

That's what I call the 'ge-dunk' (or the 'dunk-gedunk' if it's tic-tac guitar).

Bob Rogers · April 9th, 2005, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris S.

When the drummer says things like "I think that's supposed to be a minor7b5 there, not a full diminished,"... you know you've got a good one. ;-)

Fortunately or unfortunately, my intonation is not good enough that anyone could tell the difference even when I'm playing a fretted bass.

Quote:

- Speaking of which, did you know the drummer's NOT the timekeeper? Surprised? It's true, IMO. The bass player is the timekeeper. The drummer plays the time, but it's the bass player who sets and maintains the tempo.

This is highly dependent on the genre. It's dead on for jazz, bluegrass, and most country. But in a lot rock and funk the beat is defined by the high-hat. The bass and snare play behind the beat (as noted in the quote below). I just got The Latin Bass Book (I'll write a review over in the Bass Place in a few weeks) and the timekeeper role seems to be passed around the percussion section. There are a lot of grooves where the bass only plays a downbeat on the 4. Very interesting ensemble mix.

Quote:

- I heard a quote years ago that I've never forgotten: "The best drummers are the ones who wait for the beat, then swat it on the @$$ as it goes by." ;-) Words to live by.

I love this! Great description of a delayed backbeat.

GopherTele · April 9th, 2005, 09:13 AM

Way too much running before they can even crawl.

I've meant countless drummers who talk about players with extremely complicated styles (Neil Peart, Stew Copeland, et al) that they aspire to.

They skip right over the groovers like Fred Below (Chuck Berry) or even Ringo.

Someone needs to teach the next generation that it is ALL about the groove. Yes, that other stuff is cool, but you've got to learn to make that groove.

btw, even the few good drummers I've known over the years have been somewhat flakey.

Ben Harmless · April 9th, 2005, 09:43 AM

Oh man.... oh man...

Last night I was running sound for a local club, and this band comes in. They seem cool at first, but then the drummer sits down to drink, with his bandmates telling him over and over again to cool it...

The rest of the band wasn't really sober either, so when they take the stage, I have to yell at one of the guitar players who won't listen to me, his bandmates, and the half-dozen audience members telling him to turn down his Marshall TSL half-stack - which sounded absolutely horrible.

By the end of the night, the drummer was drunk off his kiester, and couldn't figure out how to break down his kit, which by this time was sprawled all over the stage so I couldn't get my mic cables up. I lent him my Leatherman to substitute for the drum tool he lost (bad idea) and when he gave it back, it was sticky.

Drummers...

rrangler · April 9th, 2005, 12:18 PM

I once heard Mick Fleetwood when asked about his minimalist playing style say something like "I'm not a technical wizard; I just keep the vibe going... a greedy drummer can ruin a band"

In almost every song, the less the better rule applies; especially with country music. Drummers seem to have the hardest time getting that!

Matt

jpkusa · April 9th, 2005, 12:42 PM

I think country music is the hardest style for most drummers to understand. It seems like the more country it is and the simpler it is, the less they're willing or able to do it. I'm talking vintage country here, not the new stuff. And even blues can be that way. There are Muddy tracks that only have a kick drum. Try getting a drummer to do that sometime!

Speaking of new country drummers...when I lived in Nashville, I didn't cross too many paths with the Music Row session types, because I was playing mainly rock n roll & so were most of the people I knew. But I did happen to go by some of the big Row studios occasionally visit friends who worked there. I saw a couple of major-label country sessions being set up for the day before (the cartage guys bring that stuff in and set it up). The drummers on these sessions have refrigerator-sized racks with more outboard gear than most clubs have for their PA's. I've seen an Mac loaded w/Pro Tools mounted in a drummer's rack! ON A COUNTRY SESSION!!!!

Gimme Charlie Watts anyday - he didn't used to even bring sticks to the studio! He just used whatever kit they had laying around.

marshallmelloman · April 9th, 2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrangler

I once heard Mick Fleetwood when asked about his minimalist playing style say something like "I'm not a technical wizard; I just keep the vibe going... a greedy drummer can ruin a band"

Matt

Boy I love that early Peter Green era Mac and the musical drumming that Mick layed down there.

e-merlin · April 10th, 2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpkusa

Gimme Charlie Watts anyday - he didn't used to even bring sticks to the studio! He just used whatever kit they had laying around.

He's the man! Best drummer ever.

J-man · April 10th, 2005, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-merlin

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpkusa

Gimme Charlie Watts anyday - he didn't used to even bring sticks to the studio! He just used whatever kit they had laying around.

He's the man! Best drummer ever.

Nah John's the man! :)

April 8th, 2005, 03:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
ye olde fretmonkey Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Austin Posts: 3,353	&%#!?! DRUMMERS!! Played with a buddy's band the other night; he had hired a drummer who was doing some pretty exasperating stuff. speeding up songs as they went along mics and triggers with a big Peavey amp...why a country drummer needs that I dont' know playing that wood block like it was a ride cymbal...every hit on that thing (through the amp) was like he was smackin me on the skull with a drumstick most baffling: he'd be playing a shuffle, then break into a 2/4 beat for about 8 bars, then back into the shuffle again WTF??? I'd look around at him as if to say, 'Dude, what th' hell are you doing?' but he'd ignore me. playing way too many fills and crashes like a rock drummer I hope I'm not playing with that guy again anytime soon. __________________ Just 'cause that's the way things are, that never did make it right.

April 8th, 2005, 03:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
Hey Joe Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Lees Summit, MO Posts: 225 2 Photos	Most drummers just arent right in the head they cant help it. __________________ " I service society by rockin'. Im out there on the front lines liberating people with my music. Rockin' aint no walk in the park lady."

April 8th, 2005, 04:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
Freddy Fender Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 234	drummer joke Question: How can you tell when there's a drummer at the door? Answer: The knocking speeds up and slows down. :P __________________ FF

April 8th, 2005, 08:48 PM	#10 (permalink)
Chris S. Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Near TELE-Town (Wash. DC) Posts: 2,888 7 Photos	Sum drum stuff. One of my favorite movie lines of all time is in "City of Angels." Meg Ryan is growing increasingly frustrated with Nicholas Cage, who can't/won't tell her anything about his background (he's an angel, hence the title). Exasperated, and guessing at his possible reason for silence, she finally says, "Are you married? Are you homeless? Are you a drummer?" I've been priveleged and lucky enough to play with some truly great drummers over the years. (I know, because I played with all the other ones, too... ) Some stuff I've learned: - A lot of the very best drummers are complete, well-rounded <u>musicians</u>, i.e., they usually play some other instrument(s) in addition to drums/percussion. I've worked with drummers who were also guitarists, pianists, sax players, etc., and one who was both a flutist and a classical composer. They were all very good. When the drummer says things like "I think that's supposed to be a minor7b5 there, not a full diminished,"... you know you've got a good one. ;-) - I heard a quote years ago that I've never forgotten: "The best drummers are the ones who <u>wait</u> for the beat, then swat it on the @$$ as it goes by." ;-) Words to live by. - Speaking of which, did you know the drummer's NOT the timekeeper? Surprised? It's true, IMO. The <u>bass player is the timekeeper</u>. The drummer plays the time, but it's the bass player who sets and maintains the tempo. (Of course, having a bass player who keeps great time will merely <u>expose</u> a drummer who's rushing that much sooner.) Really – if the drummer's rushing, it's his or her own fault. If the whole band keeps speeding up, fire the bass player. :evil: - Finally, one more joke. Two explorers are huddled over a campfire in a jungle clearing, listening to an ominous noise growing ever louder and more threatening. One says (in true B-movie fashion), "I don't like the sound of those drums." The noise stops suddenly, and from out of the darkened jungle they hear, "Sorry! He's not our regular drummer." [rim shot] 8) CS __________________ "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's depressing." – Tara, from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" "It was born at the junction of form and function." – Bill Kirchen, from "Hammer of the Honky-Tonk Gods"

April 9th, 2005, 12:38 AM	#13 (permalink)
Tele-Whacker Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Millsap, Tx. Posts: 266	Drummers...... Working with a good drummer, is a great experience, but working with a bad one, is like a night in hell. One night we had a drummer set in with us, and he was so awfulllllll ! We played a couple songs, and since he was so bad, we took an early break, and got our regular guy back up. How about the drummer that actually plays pretty steady, but can't play a roll in time, and comes in on the back beat. That sucks! I do know a couple drummers that know music, and will actually call out the numbers to a band member that may not be familiar with the song. Billy English, that plays drums on the road with Willy Nelson, can pick up a guitar and play it better than most guitar players. __________________ Chuck Cusimano

April 8th, 2005, 04:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
dhdfoster Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Age: 40 Posts: 945	I once played with a drummer that said, after being asked to keep the tempo steady, "I'm not controlling the tempo, you guys are. I'm just following along." We didn't even know how to respond.

April 8th, 2005, 04:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
lenny Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: New Haven, CT. USA Posts: 3,219	bad drummers are THE WORST. i'd rather have a bad player on any other instrument (lol if we need a bad player in the group)

April 8th, 2005, 04:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
Johnny Glow Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Just down the coast from San Francisco Posts: 170 2 Photos	Drummers, sigh... Drove to a gig last night and locked my keys in the car. Took me an hour to get the drummer out.

April 8th, 2005, 06:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
lenny Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: New Haven, CT. USA Posts: 3,219	yea, i'll second that too. a good drummer will ruin you for eternity on bad ones. SUCH a pleasure, to have a drummer who acts like a musician. and i dont think it's that hard either, it's not a technical thing, it's a head thing. being in touch with the group. /shrug :)

April 8th, 2005, 10:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
jpkusa Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Nowhereseville Posts: 585	There is nothing in this world more frustrating than an uncooperative drummer. Especially one that can do Bonham or Keith Moon fills, but has never sat down and actually learned something like, say, Green Onions. Lately I've been working in a cover band, and we changed drummers not too long ago. The new drummer is actually a singer/songwriter/guitarist who's just playing drums with us for extra cash - AND HE'S GREAT. I love it. He never plays too much, and because he's a songwriter, he knows what kind of drums HE would want to hear on HIS songs. Our last drummer...jeez. I always knew if the stage was level, because he would be drooling out of BOTH sides of his mouth.

April 9th, 2005, 12:49 AM	#14 (permalink)
ashtray Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ventura County, CA Posts: 685 4 Photos	Hehehe - this thread is perfect for me! I just recently bought a full drum set, out of a couple things that drove me to it: 1) a good drummer is impossible for me to find for my schedule, 2) most drummers play to loud, 3) I am always tapping the steering wheel when I drive! Ok, that doesn't make me a good drummer, and I proved this by noticing after the purchase that when sitting behind a drum kit, it looked nothing like my car's steering wheel. It's a boring job after the fun of it wears off. I'll be practicing on a song, just the hi-hats going, and the 1/3 of the bass/snare. Start looking around - "I wanna hit stuff!". Now I see why drummers show-boat. Also, it's easy to smack the drums hard. Tough to hit them softly, but with the same stick rebound. The bass player keeping the beat reminded me of a story: Back in college I was in this classic rock/country band. I was the bass player, and I would do this thu-thump on the "1", instead of just playing the note. I thought it sounded great! (Can't recall now if I was doing the "thu" on the 4+ or the 1 now!) It was "off timing" and more jazzy. (I still contest it sounded better than just a thump!) The drummer stopped the song and turned to me and asked if I had a problem hearing the drums, or staying on the beat. I tried to explain that I was doing that on purpose - but the idea that I was trying to sound like that baffled the heck out of him. He asked me not to play like that, but I can't recall if I changed or not! I can NOW (geesh, like 12 years later!) understand what he was getting at! (And to my defense - I was playing a style like Led Zep's "The Ocean" bridge.) __________________ "I need another Tele like I need another hole in my wallet."

April 9th, 2005, 09:13 AM	#17 (permalink)
GopherTele Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 954	It goes to drummers "Education" Way too much running before they can even crawl. I've meant countless drummers who talk about players with extremely complicated styles (Neil Peart, Stew Copeland, et al) that they aspire to. They skip right over the groovers like Fred Below (Chuck Berry) or even Ringo. Someone needs to teach the next generation that it is ALL about the groove. Yes, that other stuff is cool, but you've got to learn to make that groove. btw, even the few good drummers I've known over the years have been somewhat flakey.

April 9th, 2005, 09:43 AM	#18 (permalink)
Ben Harmless Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany, NY US of A Posts: 3,241 6 Photos	Oh man.... oh man... Last night I was running sound for a local club, and this band comes in. They seem cool at first, but then the drummer sits down to drink, with his bandmates telling him over and over again to cool it... The rest of the band wasn't really sober either, so when they take the stage, I have to yell at one of the guitar players who won't listen to me, his bandmates, and the half-dozen audience members telling him to turn down his Marshall TSL half-stack - which sounded absolutely horrible. By the end of the night, the drummer was drunk off his kiester, and couldn't figure out how to break down his kit, which by this time was sprawled all over the stage so I couldn't get my mic cables up. I lent him my Leatherman to substitute for the drum tool he lost (bad idea) and when he gave it back, it was sticky. Drummers... __________________ "I think I'll go for the life of sin, followed by the last-minute, presto-change-o, deathbed repentance." - B. Simpson

April 9th, 2005, 12:18 PM	#19 (permalink)
rrangler TDPRI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pipe Creek, TX Posts: 55	I once heard Mick Fleetwood when asked about his minimalist playing style say something like "I'm not a technical wizard; I just keep the vibe going... a greedy drummer can ruin a band" In almost every song, the less the better rule applies; especially with country music. Drummers seem to have the hardest time getting that! Matt __________________ Old stuff is cool

April 9th, 2005, 12:42 PM	#20 (permalink)
jpkusa Tele-Holic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Nowhereseville Posts: 585	I think country music is the hardest style for most drummers to understand. It seems like the more country it is and the simpler it is, the less they're willing or able to do it. I'm talking vintage country here, not the new stuff. And even blues can be that way. There are Muddy tracks that only have a kick drum. Try getting a drummer to do that sometime! Speaking of new country drummers...when I lived in Nashville, I didn't cross too many paths with the Music Row session types, because I was playing mainly rock n roll & so were most of the people I knew. But I did happen to go by some of the big Row studios occasionally visit friends who worked there. I saw a couple of major-label country sessions being set up for the day before (the cartage guys bring that stuff in and set it up). The drummers on these sessions have refrigerator-sized racks with more outboard gear than most clubs have for their PA's. I've seen an Mac loaded w/Pro Tools mounted in a drummer's rack! ON A COUNTRY SESSION!!!! Gimme Charlie Watts anyday - he didn't used to even bring sticks to the studio! He just used whatever kit they had laying around.