Another brilliant idea from Gibson marketing...

[Kevin]

It seems that they've discontinued the Light Burst and Heritage Cherry Sunburst finishes in the LP Classic line for 2005.

I don't understand that, as HCS is the LP color, in my mind. I suppose the only option for a plaintop HCS is now the Historic '58. I mean, I bought the Classic because I wanted a plain top. It's really no less expensive than the Standard if you plan on changing the pups on the Classic....

Oh, well, I suppose that Colo Springs E and I now have "collectable" guitars!

[cg73cmc]

I didn't know this -- and it's bad news. How many times have they discontinued the HCS finish in the past? Seems like they've done it at least once before. Maybe it'll be back?

[TG]

The Gibson company seems like to enjoy shooting itself in the foot.

[Joel Terry]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It seems that they've discontinued the Light Burst and Heritage Cherry Sunburst finishes in the LP Classic line for 2005.

I don't understand that, as HCS is the LP color, in my mind.

Absolutely, Kevin. I mean, to me, this would be the equivalent of Fender discontinuing blonde or 3-color sunburst.

I just don't know what those folks over at Gibson are thinking these days...it seems they're not thinking at all, doesn't it?

Joel

[TheGoodTexan]

Originally Posted by Joel Terry

I just don't know what those folks over at Gibson are thinking these days...it seems they're not thinking at all, doesn't it?

Joel

As a former member of the Gibson sales staff, I can attempt to explain this.

Several times a year, they look at their production figures, versus their sales figures. When they have a specific color in a less expensive model that is out selling everything else, they will temporarily discontinue it, in an attempt to create artifical demand for the same color in the more expensive model.

In 1995 they even discontinued the LP Classic altogether, because it was far out selling the more expensive LP Standard in all colors. They brought it back in 1998, in limited colors.

I'm not certain of the current line up, but I do know that at one point a couple of years ago, they discontinued white and black in all LP models, except the Custom, in an attempt to drive customers to that model.

The reason that customers are drawn to the Classic is obvious - the price. It doesn't make sense to me that the Classic is cheaper than the Standard...as there is zero difference in manufacturing costs. If a customer can accept the slim taper neck of the Classic, it's a no brainer. And most people like to experiment with pickups anyway.

But you guys are right, it makes no sense from a player's stand point.

[Scotland]

Fender do the same from time to time. Fiesta red for example was and still is a much desired option. They had it on the 57 / 52 RI models then discontinued it and made it available on the Custom Shop models. I think it is now back to being available on the 57/62 RI. It will never be available on the Am. Series.
It's all marketing.

[lenny]

discontinue the color everyone likes in order to make people pay more.
i may just be bitter, but that is so typical of the corporate "make more money whatever the cost" mentality. in this case the cost is customer loyalty.
i don't understand how people can be so greedy, it honestly boggles my mind

[stantheman]

I can see it from both perspectives - it beats having to lay people off. I haven't seen ANYONE recently playing
a Fiesta Red ANYWHERE, clubs, television, radio
That may be a driving force as to why so many "Muddy's" are flying out the doors of stores.
To me it no longer matters - I'm becoming an Epiphone
freakazoid 8)

[raisindot]

[quote=TheGoodTexan]

Originally Posted by Joel Terry

I just don't know what those folks over at Gibson are thinking these days...it seems they're not thinking at all, doesn't it?

Joel

Originally Posted by "TheGoodTexan

As a former member of the Gibson sales staff, I can attempt to explain this.

Several times a year, they look at their production figures, versus their sales figures. When they have a specific color in a less expensive model that is out selling everything else, they will temporarily discontinue it, in an attempt to create artifical demand for the same color in the more expensive model.

In 1995 they even discontinued the LP Classic altogether, because it was far out selling the more expensive LP Standard in all colors. They brought it back in 1998, in limited colors.

That makes perfect marketing sense (hell, I'm in marketing, so I can say that). It's the same rationale Disney uses when they yank DVDs off the shelves for a number of years. First, it creates a groundswell of last-minute sales in anticipation of this artificial restriction and , second, it creates anticipation for the next re-release of the same stuff in ten years or so, when another generation of parent's'll be happy to plonk donk the bucks.

Of course, Ebay has made this whole practicle totally irrelevant, since there will still be plenty of supply of these things in the secondary market for years to come.

Applies to sunburst classics, you'll probably see a quick run-up of sales of current models leading up to the discontinuation, but you'll no problem finding one anywhere if you really want one.

I, for one, love my Classic. It's a heavily flamed Classic Plus, rather than a "standard" Classic, but I love the thin neck--perfect for my short, stubber fingers.

Jeff in Boston

[Colo Springs E]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Oh, well, I suppose that Colo Springs E and I now have "collectable" guitars!

woo-hoo!! :)

-Eric

[Colo Springs E]

Originally Posted by lenny

i may just be bitter, but that is so typical of the corporate "make more money whatever the cost" mentality. in this case the cost is customer loyalty.
i don't understand how people can be so greedy, it honestly boggles my mind

......I agree corporate greed is widespread, and the list of scandels and shameful acts by high-ranking corp officers is disturbing.

But if Gibson is doing something that ultimately:

1) Sells more guitars, and
2) Makes them more money...

...doesn't that actually benefit the employees (more job security, lessened likelihood of layoffs, etc)?

But, I could be wrong!

Oh well, think I'll go play my highly-sought-after collectible LP Classic!! :)

-Eric

[raisindot]

[quote="Colo Springs E"]

Originally Posted by lenny

But if Gibson is doing something that ultimately:

1) Sells more guitars, and
2) Makes them more money...

...doesn't that actually benefit the employees (more job security, lessened likelihood of layoffs, etc)?

-Eric

Oh, my goodness...could you please give me a ticket to your alternate universe?

I work for a very huge corporation. Requoting your statement above:

My Huge Compmany is doing things that

1) has sold many, many, more things and
2) had made them HUGE packets of money

and, the same time, has laid off thousands of employees, reduced benefits, and provided gigantic compensation packages for its executives.

Jeff

[Colo Springs E]

Originally Posted by raisindot

Oh, my goodness...could you please give me a ticket to your alternate universe?

....my point is, a "healthy profitable" company (all things considered) presents a far better scenario than one that is struggling to survive.

Will some healthy profitable companies lay off employees? Yup. But I think your odds are sure a lot better in that scenario.

I work for a Fortune 100 company currently, and have worked for major corporations most of my adult life. I certainly always feel better when the company's performing well.

-Eric

[teledude66]

Originally Posted by Colo Springs E

....my point is, a "healthy profitable" company (all things considered) presents a far better scenario than one that is struggling to survive.

Will some healthy profitable companies lay off employees? Yup. But I think your odds are sure a lot better in that scenario.

I work for a Fortune 100 company currently, and have worked for major corporations most of my adult life. I certainly always feel better when the company's performing well.

-Eric

it may not be popular, but no one ever starts a business with the idea of making everyone else money ...if you work for a successful company and make a lot of money that's a side benefit of a person who started a company to make THEMSELVES alot of money ...

[lenny]

Originally Posted by Colo Springs E

But if Gibson is doing something that ultimately:

1) Sells more guitars, and
2) Makes them more money...

...doesn't that actually benefit the employees (more job security, lessened likelihood of layoffs, etc)?

But, I could be wrong!

no, that's exactly right. but it forgets about those pesky customers. to me, as a customer, this sort of marketing makes me much more likely to say "fu gibson, i'm buying a copy for half as much", than "o boy i'd better scoff up those cool colors " .

[teledude66]

Originally Posted by lenny

no, that's exactly right. but it forgets about those pesky customers. to me, as a customer, this sort of marketing makes me much more likely to say "fu gibson, i'm buying a copy for half as much", than "o boy i'd better scoff up those cool colors " .

also the sign of a good company is loyalty...people that are successful know how to make money longterm, not all at once ....

i asked my local dealer if they were still a gibson dealer, his whole demeanor changed before my eyes, he recounted how his father had carried gibson forever and would let people pay for years on layaway just so they could have their dream gibson, other tales of how people would drive from far off because they were the only people to carry gibson ...he was shocked at the amount of inventory he was going to have to purchase to keep his gibson dealership ...he said the gibson rep told him they wanted "Rolls Royce clientele" (i paraphrased a lil) anyhoo ...don't be surprised if we see another enron type deal one day from gibson.....seems to me he said he heard that Sam Ash told gibson to stick it when they told them how much they would have to carry, i found that shocking

[fungusyoung]

Originally Posted by Colo Springs E

......I agree corporate greed is widespread, and the list of scandels and shameful acts by high-ranking corp officers is disturbing.

But if Gibson is doing something that ultimately:

1) Sells more guitars, and
2) Makes them more money...

...doesn't that actually benefit the employees (more job security, lessened likelihood of layoffs, etc)?

But, I could be wrong!

Oh well, think I'll go play my highly-sought-after collectible LP Classic!! :)

-Eric

I own 3 Gibsons, but I don't like what I'm seeing lately from them at all. They are getting more in bed with Musician's Friend, which I don't think is a good thing for the consumer or other online stores (you can just forget about the small guys). The latest run of non-historic LP Juniors, which Gibson denied they were going to re-run when I asked after MF initially posted them on their site prematurely, is just one more example of the many "exclusives" they're giving to MF.

[kp8]

gibson is a company that truly baffles me. When they came out with all those Double cuts and SGs at a roughly HW 1 midprice level i though "they finally get it!" The dealers in NY all said the same thing... "'bout time they started making some nice affordable guitars that play well and compete at the mid-level price point" They are off my sh*t list.... Then ther get great review in all the guitar mags and things look good.

Then they bump their prices up $100+
They pull the PRS thing
They pull that funky biz with all the dealers
The stop production on some of their most loved models....


They should look at some of these other companies and realize that there are guitars to sell out there at EVERY price point..... and that they lower price point guitars help create brand loyalty and marketshare...

seriously... i don't get them at all..

-k--

[J-man]

As long as they bring them back I don't mind. 8)

[fungusyoung]

Originally Posted by kp8

gibson is a company that truly baffles me. When they came out with all those Double cuts and SGs at a roughly HW 1 midprice level i though "they finally get it!" The dealers in NY all said the same thing... "'bout time they started making some nice affordable guitars that play well and compete at the mid-level price point" They are off my sh*t list.... Then ther get great review in all the guitar mags and things look good.

Then they bump their prices up $100+

Prices have gone up more than $100 in some cases. Less than 2 years ago I got a faded DC for $519 and a faded special with buckers for $499. Granted, I got good deals, but those guitars are now both at $729 via their preferred online dealer, MF. I see them routinely priced between $689 - $749.

Your point is dead on. As much as I might sometimes get frustrated with Fender USA for not expanding their line of Teles, Fender Japan certainly makes up for that. And Fender seems to be much more in touch with their customer base overall. Gibson seems to think that they can get away with murder just because they have a decent name recognition out in the maketplace.

[jhundt]

for a laugh... a bunch of executives sitting around a big table in a luxurious meeting room; one young hot-shot is running a Power-Point presentation, showing how the American Market is buying 39.8 percent HCS finishes on x-model guitar, but only 12% on the highly-profitable y-model. That's the electric guitar business in the 2000's. Thank heavens we have so much consumer data available these days, and the ability to process it and increase our understanding of the market. I wonder what Leo would've done if he had that kind of data in '54?